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Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:12 am

midnightx wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Why anyone argues some of the facts of 1976's "A Star Is Born" is incomprehensible.

Not incomprehensible on this message board.


Yeah, your're so above it all aren't you.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:22 am

MaryAnn wrote:Of course he should have taken the role. He was a performer and it was work. It was a high-profile project in a medium he still professed that he cared about and wanted to master.

Elvis had reinvented himself before and risen from the ashes. Binder had had something to do with that. Management had already written Elvis off and relegated him to making (one last) insipid Christmas special. But I digress...

This time, there was no Binder to extend a hand -- and Management had its way. What a shame.



norrie wrote:
ekenee wrote:
eligain wrote:
ekenee wrote:
midnightx wrote:
ekenee wrote:Elvis had already won a Golden Globe for On tour.

An achievement for a musical documentary mostly unnoticed by the public at large. This isn't about personal achievement, this is about a project opening the door to acclaim and respect by the public at large. We are talking about an artist who was releasing forgettable, substandard MOR albums, whose jumpsuits and stage persona were already becoming a punch-line, and who had become an uncool casino showroom performer. His mainstream credibility was tarnished. To dismiss Elvis' opportunity to star in a movie that was a major departure from his past work and that would have potentially opened the door to a new Hollywood career is baffling. There is simply no legitimate parallel between his past film work from the '60s and the Star Is Born role.

ekenee wrote:Elvis had already won grammys.

Again, prestigious awards for his religious recordings. Those honors did not have cross-over potential into the mainstream population in terms of contemporary credibility. Being part of a multi-million selling soundtrack that won contemporary awards certainly would have been a noteworthy achievement - that many of you today would frequently cite to in defense of Elvis. Sorry you can't see the obvious.

ekenee wrote:Elvis had already made very successful box office movies.

Mostly meaningless B-level films. Again, it is baffling that you compare the artistic merits of those second-rate movies to a major motion picture that was noticed by the Oscars and Golden Globes.

ekenee wrote:Elvis was not going to win the oscar for this flick given the situation.

But he would have been associated with a relevant, contemporary hit.

ekenee wrote:And this film was not as widely loved as some would make you think.

It also wasn't Clambake.



And to prove my point once again, Clambake is a much more entertaining film than A star is born.
Thanks for that comparison.

FYI--respected film critic Leanard Maltin gives the film **1/2 stars while calling it an unconvincing treatment of the story.

The only way the film was going to be a success is if Elvis sang "Feelings" during the closing segment, while on downers.

The word "success" gets thrown around way too much here.
eXample: the first Star Trek movie was a huge success.

Well, trekkies had been clamoring for more "trek" since the series was canceled and they flocked to the theaters, the film turned out to be a huge dissapointment, while being a box office success.

Remakes as well, are always popular because people remember how great the originals were.

More examples.

Planet of the apes, pales when compared the Heston orignal but was a box office success.

The Parent Trap, pales when compared to the Hayley mills Original but was a box office success.

King Kong pales when compared to the original but was a box office success.

I could go on and on.

REMAKES are a bad idea most of the time and they rarely tie or beat the originals.

But Hollywood knows they will be successfull at the box office and it gives the newer generation a chance to see the story in an updated version at a theater.

Elvis' comeback movie needed to be an original idea written for him, not some tired movie that had been remade over again.

The soundtrack only sold because of the huge Streisand hit, "evergreen". And that is probably one of her greatest hits.

If Elvis had done the movie, I don't for a second think it would not have made money, or sold a ton of soundtrack albums.

People would have been naturally curious and would have flocked to the theater to see him. I get that.

But, Elvis was looking for a non-singing type of role. Not another musical drama.

That's my point you missed yet again.

The point is this, if you missed.

Just like his 1960's lightwieght musicals, like "Viva las vegas", it would have made money but would not have given Elvis the respect he wanted in hollywood.

FYI, Leonard Maltin gives Viva las vegas, ** 1/2 stars, the same amount he gives A star is born. Think about it.

PS. Don't you agree with my assessment that the film casting could have been better if Ann-Margret did the film with him instead of Barbra S.?
In the early 70's Ann was doing some movies that were getting her the attention of the academy as well.


The movie was a hit, not a curiosity. Plus it was a serious drama where he would have sang live on camera, no lip syncing. This movie was huge at the time It was so big that it played in theaters a second time after 1977, that is when I finally saw it. Who cares if Leonard Malton gave it 2 and 1/2 stars. How many huge hit movies and cult classics were panned by the critics but loved by the public? More than you can count. Who cares what critics say anyway? The Movie was just had a deluxe blue ray release so I'm pretty sure it's still loved.


Right who cares what the critics think. But also who cares what the academy thinks. Most of the academy award winning films are long and boring.
I am sure people love it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck.



Regardless of what you think of the movie or what critics think it was as already has been said a huge hit at the box office,not to mention an award winner and spawned a successful soundtrack album.I'm not a fan of the movie but I can see that it could have (if Elvis had been up for it and put in a creditable performance)resurrected his career and put him firmly into the international spotlight again.Never mind A Star Is Born it's what could have come next that could have been even more important.

norrie


Bumping up my post and norrie's post because they at least deserve to be read and not buried in this incessant bickering. Sheeeesh.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:24 am

MidnightX, you are on fire on this thread. Of course, this would have done wonders for Elvis' career, supposing he was able to do it. And there would have been more excitement if it came out with Streisand/ Elvis as opposed to Streisand/Kristofferson. The publicity would have been off the charts. I think the music and the role would have been a little different with Elvis, but not a jump suit, mutton chopped character like somebody mentioned. If he could have risen to the occasion, and he held his own with Streisand, it would have been another comeback.

Of course he saw the movie and he probably imagined how much more he could have done with it than KK did.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:34 am

And yet Elvis never made the movie.

If only.

If Elvis was so pissed off about not making the movie, and the colonel was to blame, why

didn't he fire that crap manager?

Actors miss out on movies all the time. It's not the end of the world.

Elvis should been more concerned about his music career and putting together a different type of concert that was beginning to look the same.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:43 am

ekenee wrote:And yet Elvis never made the movie.

If only.

If Elvis was so pissed off about not making the movie, and the colonel was to blame, why

didn't he fire that crap manager?

Actors miss out on movies all the time. It's not the end of the world.

Elvis should been more concerned about his music career and putting together a different type of concert that was beginning to look the same.


Because Elvis desperately needed someone to encourage him to do what he could do -- not tell him what he couldn't do.

And, yes, he should have fired that manager -- a long time ago.

Actors do miss out on movies all the time. But this time, it might have been the end of the world for this actor.

His live concerts would ALWAYS have been a part of the mix -- being the talent that he was. Just in a completely different way.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:03 am

MaryAnn wrote: Elvis desperately needed someone to encourage him to do what he could do -- not tell him what he couldn't do.

Mary Ann, I like the way you think... most of the time.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:03 am

It's too bad Billy Smith doesn't do more interviews and is not more accessible.

If anyone knows if Elvis saw A Star is Born or not and his thoughts on it Billy would be that person.

It being 37 years later Billy might not remember if Elvis saw it or not but it would still be a good question to ask him.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:27 pm

MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:And yet Elvis never made the movie.

If only.

If Elvis was so pissed off about not making the movie, and the colonel was to blame, why

didn't he fire that crap manager?

Actors miss out on movies all the time. It's not the end of the world.

Elvis should been more concerned about his music career and putting together a different type of concert that was beginning to look the same.


Because Elvis desperately needed someone to encourage him to do what he could do -- not tell him what he couldn't do.

And, yes, he should have fired that manager -- a long time ago.

Actors do miss out on movies all the time. But this time, it might have been the end of the world for this actor.

His live concerts would ALWAYS have been a part of the mix -- being the talent that he was. Just in a completely different way.



And there is some evidence that he didn't want to do the film and had the colonel decline it.

But realistically, Elvis couldn't even get motivated to finish his own karare film, of which he gave up on after a few weeks.

And the karate film had no demanding set schedule.

Look what happened to Elvis in aug. of 1975. He was so bad off, he had to cancel almost all of his aug. vegas engagement.

He was not in the shape to pull this crappy movie off.

Maybe if the colonel had arranged to broadcast, "Elvis in Concert" in 1977 around the world via sattelite, Elvis would've gotten himself in shape.

There is so many "maybe's" with Elvis. If the source of his troubles was the colonel, then he needed to eliminate that source.

Elvis for some reason didn't want to solve his problems.

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:51 pm

What Red says about "A Star Is Born":

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Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:39 pm

Does anyone remember how much money Elvis was offered by Streisand?

Re: A Star Is Born

Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:49 pm

It was a lot!

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:33 am

I'm convinced this role would have saved his life. It would have been the challenge he needed to get his act together. After this fell through all that remained was the same old crazy touring schedule. Elvis was a creative person who wanted to prove that he could act, all he needed was a decent chance. Sadly he was surrounded by 'friends' with small horizons, and a manager who just wanted to make money to fund his gambling addiction.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:19 am

Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:04 am

Pink&Black wrote:I'm convinced this role would have saved his life. It would have been the challenge he needed to get his act together. After this fell through all that remained was the same old crazy touring schedule. Elvis was a creative person who wanted to prove that he could act, all he needed was a decent chance. Sadly he was surrounded by 'friends' with small horizons, and a manager who just wanted to make money to fund his gambling addiction.


I agree completely.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:27 am

I wanna be in the next Nationa Treasure Movie since it's one of my favorites.

If I am not accepted, I am sure my life will spiral out of control.

Seriously, some of you are just all about the drama without looking at everything in context.

Talk about missing the trees thru the forest.

This minor dissapointment was just a nail in his coffin,it wasn't thee coffin.

He had so much more to overcome.

Try not to over simplify it.

Go back to the start to find out where it un-raveled.

Elvis never went on and on about this movie in his last days.

He was stewing over the bodyguard book and few other things.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:26 am

ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Thanks for this advice.

The entire A Star is Born scenario played out between March 28, 1975 (when Barbra Streisand and Jon Peters personally pitched the project to Elvis after attending his show) and April 24, 1975 (when Elvis went out on tour). As Guralnick says, "By the time that he went out on tour on April 24, the movie was already a thing of the past."

According to Guralnick:

Streisand's production company and Warner Brothers Offer:
1. $500,000 plus 10 percent of the gross receipts after break-even
2. The movie producers retaining all music and record rights
3. Elvis and the Colonel free to produce, and profit from, the two live concerts at the heart of the picture.

The Colonel's Counter-Offer:
1. $1,000,000 in salary for Elvis
2. $100,000 in expenses
3. 50% of the profits from the first dollar
4. Approval of any songs that Elvis was to perform
5. An unspecified deal to be negotiated separately on soundtrack rights.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:36 am

MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Thanks for this advice.

The entire A Star is Born scenario played out between March 28, 1975 (when Barbra Streisand and Jon Peters personally pitched the project to Elvis after attending his show) and April 24, 1975 (when Elvis went out on tour). As Guralnick says, "By the time that he went out on tour on April 24, the movie was already a thing of the past."

According to Guralnick:

Streisand's production company and Warner Brothers Offer:
1. $500,000 plus 10 percent of the gross receipts after break-even


I've heard the movie cost 6 million to make so does that mean after the film makes back it's budget.

or does it mean what it cost to make and then what it cost in promotion.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:52 am

MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Thanks for this advice.

The entire A Star is Born scenario played out between March 28, 1975 (when Barbra Streisand and Jon Peters personally pitched the project to Elvis after attending his show) and April 24, 1975 (when Elvis went out on tour). As Guralnick says, "By the time that he went out on tour on April 24, the movie was already a thing of the past."

According to Guralnick:

Streisand's production company and Warner Brothers Offer:
1. $500,000 plus 10 percent of the gross receipts after break-even
2. The movie producers retaining all music and record rights
3. Elvis and the Colonel free to produce, and profit from, the two live concerts at the heart of the picture.

The Colonel's Counter-Offer:
1. $1,000,000 in salary for Elvis
2. $100,000 in expenses
3. 50% of the profits from the first dollar
4. Approval of any songs that Elvis was to perform
5. An unspecified deal to be negotiated separately on soundtrack rights.


Yep. That's my point. Elvis wasn't dwelling on this like he was about the bodyguard book so I don't think this lost movie
really caused him to spiral.

And further more, I don't think the colonel 's counter offer was out of line either, considering what Elvis was making for movies in the 60's, and
the fact that WB would have made all thier money back and a lot more.

Also, there is something in the book about how Barbra's offer didn't quite turn out the way it was originally presented or something along those lines.
Not sure what that meant other than the colonel was leary about it, so he opted out.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:09 am

According to IMDB the worldwide gross on the film was $72 million.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:19 am

ekenee wrote:
MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Thanks for this advice.

The entire A Star is Born scenario played out between March 28, 1975 (when Barbra Streisand and Jon Peters personally pitched the project to Elvis after attending his show) and April 24, 1975 (when Elvis went out on tour). As Guralnick says, "By the time that he went out on tour on April 24, the movie was already a thing of the past."

According to Guralnick:

Streisand's production company and Warner Brothers Offer:
1. $500,000 plus 10 percent of the gross receipts after break-even
2. The movie producers retaining all music and record rights
3. Elvis and the Colonel free to produce, and profit from, the two live concerts at the heart of the picture.

The Colonel's Counter-Offer:
1. $1,000,000 in salary for Elvis
2. $100,000 in expenses
3. 50% of the profits from the first dollar
4. Approval of any songs that Elvis was to perform
5. An unspecified deal to be negotiated separately on soundtrack rights.


Yep. That's my point. Elvis wasn't dwelling on this like he was about the bodyguard book so I don't think this lost movie
really caused him to spiral.

And further more, I don't think the colonel 's counter offer was out of line either, considering what Elvis was making for movies in the 60's, and
the fact that WB would have made all thier money back and a lot more.

Also, there is something in the book about how Barbra's offer didn't quite turn out the way it was originally presented or something along those lines.
Not sure what that meant other than the colonel was leary about it, so he opted out.


Guralnick says, "Nearly everyone around him saw it as one more example of the old man interfering, and Elvis did nothing to discourage their thinking. But secretly he seemed almost relieved not to have to deal with a matter that had blown up so quickly from a long-awaited dream into something complicated, unfamiliar, and ambiguous all at the same time."

Preying on Elvis' insecurities was second nature to Parker. I'm sure, when it suited his purpose, the Colonel could make things seem "complicated, unfamiliar, and ambiguous" to Elvis.

The counter offer was meant to put Babs and her hairdresser boyfriend in their place and it worked. More importantly, it effectively killed all discussion of Elvis' participation in the project. Parker's tactic of making ridiculous demands to kill a deal had worked in the past and it worked again in this case.

I can just hear it... "They're trying to take advantage of you, Elvis, but we'll show 'em!" Right.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:01 am

brian wrote:
MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Thanks for this advice.

The entire A Star is Born scenario played out between March 28, 1975 (when Barbra Streisand and Jon Peters personally pitched the project to Elvis after attending his show) and April 24, 1975 (when Elvis went out on tour). As Guralnick says, "By the time that he went out on tour on April 24, the movie was already a thing of the past."

According to Guralnick:

Streisand's production company and Warner Brothers Offer:
1. $500,000 plus 10 percent of the gross receipts after break-even


I've heard the movie cost 6 million to make so does that mean after the film makes back it's budget.

or does it mean what it cost to make and then what it cost in promotion.

RonBaker2003 wrote:According to IMDB the worldwide gross on the film was $72 million.


Math is not my strong suit, but assuming these figures are correct...

If it cost $6 million to make and grossed $72 million... even factoring in promotion costs, 10% of the gross receipts after break-even would have been a nice chunk of change.

Of course, the intangible factors for Elvis' career could have been priceless.

As for that "worldwide gross" of $72 million? Wonder what it would have grossed had it starred Streisand and Presley.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:55 am

We arrive at the real reason Elvis should have made A Star is Born for the money.

You would think Parker would want Elvis to take the role to have another avenue for making money besides touring the U.S.

Especially considering that people have said Colonel Parker wasn't doing all that great financially yet he turned this deal and others offers down that would have been huge $$$$$$$$$$.

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:28 pm

ekenee wrote:
MaryAnn wrote:
ekenee wrote:Read the subject in Guralnick's book, The rise and fall of Elvis Presley.


Yep. That's my point. Elvis wasn't dwelling on this like he was about the bodyguard book so I don't think this lost movie
really caused him to spiral.



I don't think this missed opportunity was the sole cause of his decline. But had Elvis made this movie, it would have brought him into contact with people outside his small world, someone might have told him it was not okay for a manager to earn 50% of what his client earns......It would have given him a new perspective on things, not to mention what it could have done for his self-confidence

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:17 pm

The Colonel didn't want Elvis to be billed second in the movie after Barbra. But she was a bigger movie star than Elvis in 1975. It was logical for her to be the first one

Re: A Star Is Born

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:34 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:The Colonel didn't want Elvis to be billed second in the movie after Barbra. But she was a bigger movie star than Elvis in 1975. It was logical for her to be the first one


She was the bigger star period in 1975, movies and music. She had a huge hit the year before with The Way We Were and was outselling Elvis in the record world. They could have done what other stars do when they want to share top billing. The first name on the left is slightly under the name on the right.

Barbara Streisand
Elvis Presley

or reverse.