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If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:46 am

There's a lot of merit to keeping the integrity of these concerts intact, as RCA did in 1972 when they released the complete evening performance. People thought material was cut even when it wasn't and I can't fault RCA for putting it out just the way it went down.

Still, to make the best one concert I could out of the two they recorded, what if we had used the afternoon show, dropped in The Impossible Dream somewhere after the oldies medley, and exchanged the evening version of I Can't Stop Loving You instead of the afternoon version. For me, this would have made an even better "As Recorded At Madison Square Garden."

IMO, this would have combined the best of the two concerts with the couple of performances that probably made RCA use the PM show in the first place.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:19 am

Lets not forget reconsider baby!

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:32 am

Johnny2523 wrote:Lets not forget reconsider baby!

That's already in the afternoon show. I'm using the whole afternoon show, adding Impossible Dream and replacing the I Can't Stop Loving You version for the more exciting evening show version.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:39 am

stevelecher wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:Lets not forget reconsider baby!

That's already in the afternoon show. I'm using the whole afternoon show, adding Impossible Dream and replacing the I Can't Stop Loving You version for the more exciting evening show version.


my mistake sorry :)

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:29 am

My input would have been: Leave the evening show alone. It's fine as is. Get it out NOW.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:01 am

That was a fine decision I can't argue with, but a lot of people prefer the afternoon show and yet, for my money, they had to release The Impossible Dream. Therefore, my solution to release an even stronger album.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:18 am

You have to remember Steve that was already on the LP was perilously close to the maximum amount you could fit comfortably on an LP.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:29 am

They should have recorded all 4 shows and made a two record set... would love to hear that version of Bridge from the June 9th show in stereo.
I personally prefer the evening show over the afternoon show... I can't stop listening to that new mix... it is such an improvement over the original, dry, flat sound from '72.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:08 am

I prefer the evening show too, mainly because of the two songs I've written about here.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:58 am

Not sure how much I'd use from one or the other, but a composite of both shows on June 10 would've likely made for a better album. Perhaps the opening third from the ES, middle third from the AS, and the remainder from the ES.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:11 am

I'm glad they released it like it is.

It's still the way I prefer to listen to it.

The new mix, doesn't do the show any favors.

The sound is not balanced correctly on the new mix.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:56 am

likethebike wrote:You have to remember Steve that was already on the LP was perilously close to the maximum amount you could fit comfortably on an LP.

Yes, LTB, spot on.

Working from memory, I'm pretty sure that the afternoon show is the shorter of the two, and this would surely have been an important factor in choosing which to release on a single LP.

Once you go past about 24 minutes on a single side on an LP then the sound quality can begin to suffer.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:42 pm

This is exactly what I did with the PFAP set the day after it came out. I made a best of mix and have enjoyed it non stop since. Goes like this:

2001/That's All Right - ev
Proud Mary - ev
Never Been To Spain - ev
You Don't Have To Say You Love - as
Until It's Time For You To Go - as
You've Lost That Loving Feeling - as
Polk Salad Annie - as
Love Me - ev
All Shook Up - ev
Heartbreak Hotel - as
Teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel - ev
Blue Suede Shoes - as
Reconsider Baby - as
Love Me Tender - ev
The Impossible Dream - ev
Introductions - ev
Hound Dog - ev
I'll Remember You - as
Suspicious Minds - as
For The Good Times - ev
An American Trilogy - as
Funny How Time Slips Away - ev
Can't Stop Loving You - ev
Can't Help Falling In Love - ev

Had to edit alittle dialogue in and out here and there to get it to flow seamlessly, but it turned out really well as the levels are very similar and it was easily to swap songs out. Can't do the same with the legacy version as those two mixes do not match. I was able to find a new/sealed copy of Operation Big Apple a couple of weeks ago so I have the afternoon show in it's best form now as well. I have to give the BMG team credit here, they really did a bang up job on the PFAP package. Should of got a grammy for best historical reissue/pkg or whatever it's called.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:26 pm

"Elvis As Recorded At Madison Square Garden" was the first album of the King, that featured an (almost) complete concert. The only thing I would have changed was the speed of the recording. On the album the show was running a tad too fast to make it fit on one record. It was corrected later (on MC and CD), but still I cannot understand why Elvis approved such a release.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:09 pm

ekenee wrote:I'm glad they released it like it is.

It's still the way I prefer to listen to it.

The new mix, doesn't do the show any favors.

The sound is not balanced correctly on the new mix.


Listen to the foul up of "Reconsider baby" as released on the FTD "Elvis (Fool)" CD package and you'll realise just how good the sound and mix is on PFAP!

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:15 pm

Tony.. wrote:
ekenee wrote:I'm glad they released it like it is.

It's still the way I prefer to listen to it.

The new mix, doesn't do the show any favors.

The sound is not balanced correctly on the new mix.


Listen to the foul up of "Reconsider baby" as released on the FTD "Elvis (Fool)" CD package and you'll realise just how good the sound and mix is on PFAP!


The new mix did me a tremendous favour. I stopped playing the show because of the boring mix and sound issues. PFAP to me was like a new discovery of the show!

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:39 pm

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:"Elvis As Recorded At Madison Square Garden" was the first album of the King, that featured an (almost) complete concert. The only thing I would have changed was the speed of the recording. On the album the show was running a tad too fast to make it fit on one record. It was corrected later (on MC and CD), but still I cannot understand why Elvis approved such a release.

Unless I've missed some recent development, I believe it has long been established that the original LP and all subsequent releases run at 100% perfect speed.

The myth of the speeding-up comes from a well-intentioned but incorrect Ronnie Tutt quote.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm

If I was the responsible guy in 1972 and was able to start with a blanc sheet, I would have released an concept 2 LP-album like this:

Elvis On Tour 1972 - From Coast to Coast

SIDE 1: From Elvis in L.A.

1. Separate Ways
2. For The Good Times
3. Burning Love
4. It's A Matter Of Time
5. Always On My Mind

SIDE 2: From Nashville To Vegas

1. Where Do I Go From Here?
2. You Gave Me A Mountain
3. It's Impossible
4. It's Over
5. I'm Leavin'

SIDE 3: From Elvis In New York

1. Introduction: Also Sprach Zarathustra (Theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey)
2. That's All Right
3. Proud Mary
4. Never Been To Spain
5. You Don't Have To Say You Love Me
6. Until It’s Time For You To Go
7. You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'
8. Polk Salad Annie
9. Love Me
10. All Shook Up
11. Heartbreak Hotel
12. Medley: (Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear/ Don't Be Cruel
13. Love Me Tender

SIDE 4: From Elvis In New York

14. Blue Suede Shoes
15. Reconsider Baby
16. Hound Dog
17. I’ll Remember You
18. Suspicious Minds
19. Introductions by Elvis
20. For The Good Times
21. American Trilogy
22. Funny How Time Slips Away
23. I Can't Stop Loving You
24. Can't Help Falling In Love
25. End Theme (Orchestra)

This album would totally cash in on Elvis' success on the charts as well as the great momentum of the Elvis On Tour movie and the New York concerts. Personally I feel a release like this - which basically follows the blueprint of Back In Memphis/ From Memphis To Vegas, only this time with hit singles included, would have given Elvis great artistic credibility as an artist and would most likely today rank amongst the 100 best albums in popular music, something that cannot be said of the Camden-releases Burning Love & Hits From His Movies, Separate Ways and/ or the 1973 Elvis Fool album. To cash in on the success the albums could in 1973 have been sold separately as single albums.

And remember folks, it is just a concept. I am perfectly happy with Prince Of Another Planet... I only feel RCA could have come up with something really spectacular, combining studio and live material.
Last edited by Alexander on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:54 pm

Its 40 years ago! Who cares, move on!

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:57 pm

r&b wrote:Its 40 years ago! Who cares, move on!


Please do so and leave this board!

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:02 pm

George Smith wrote:
A. C. van Kuijk wrote:"Elvis As Recorded At Madison Square Garden" was the first album of the King, that featured an (almost) complete concert. The only thing I would have changed was the speed of the recording. On the album the show was running a tad too fast to make it fit on one record. It was corrected later (on MC and CD), but still I cannot understand why Elvis approved such a release.

Unless I've missed some recent development, I believe it has long been established that the original LP and all subsequent releases run at 100% perfect speed.
The myth of the speeding-up comes from a well-intentioned but incorrect Ronnie Tutt quote.

You didn't miss anything... you are correct.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Alexander wrote:
r&b wrote:Its 40 years ago! Who cares, move on!

Please do so and leave this board!

Thanks.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:07 pm

Rob wrote:
Alexander wrote:
r&b wrote:Its 40 years ago! Who cares, move on!

Please do so and leave this board!

Thanks.


I do not know how to interpreted your reply Rob, but someone whose only response on a thread can be "Its 40 years ago! Who cares, move on!" - and that on a Elvis Presley board... 40 or more years ago applies to 99,9% of the threads on this board! So if he wants to move on he may as well consider to leave destructive posts like that behind him and leave, not spoiling someone else's fun. That is why I responded the way I did.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:13 pm

I am thanking you for the way you responded. r&b's world-weary posts get tiresome.

I normally skip over them.

Re: If I'd had input on MSG album

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:30 pm

This reminded me of a post I made on this topic over a year ago:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65731

Elvis recorded a handful of superb numbers in the studio in 1972, as well as putting in some incredible stage performances in Vegas and on the road. This potential double disc album would have undoubtedly been something quite different compared to other releases on the market. But it would have been a real bold musical statement that Elvis was not artistically dead yet. Yes, it mainly features live tracks, but it's a fair representation of what Elvis was doing best in that period. Most of his best music was being heard on stage, not from the records he was making in the studio. I challenge anybody to pick any faults with this 2-Disc bonanza!

Good Time Charlie wrote:I've come to the conclusion that the way the Standing Room Only concept is usually put forward (1 LP with a mix of the Feb '72 Vegas recordings and the March studio masters) would not work. The album tends to just be too ballad heavy and overall it just doesn't quite highlight how dynamic and varied Elvis was in this period. 1972 is the year that is often said by fans as the final peak of the comeback era; he was still fit, exciting and very much Elvis Presley. But it's also the year when his vision of himself as an artist all came to a climax, with an amazing blend of American musical styles to create this sensory onslaught on the concert stage. Songs like "An American Trilogy" and "The Impossible Dream" epitomize this very idea Elvis had and I think this album I am about to present encapsulates the message he tried to get across on the concert stage, and Elvis Presley's artistry in 1972. Because it was also a year when a lot of his music became very autobiographical and you see Elvis the image, and Elvis the man, within this music, perhaps at like no other time in his career. It's the year when Elvis was on the brink, and some of the feelings he gets across in these songs, are real emotions at a time when Elvis was soon about to breakdown into freefall.

This could have been the answer to the conundrum RCA had in 1972. They had an eclectic mix of studio and live material at their disposal, and in the end they just issued one of the New York concerts and some dreadful budget LP's. It really was a travesty for the man and his image, in a year when he actually acheived so much, yet his music retail output shows otherwise. And like I said, I've come to the conclusion that the best way they could have presented this iconic period for Elvis was to issue it all in one grand form. The Golden Globe winning movie "Elvis On Tour" deserved a true companion release, and recordings like "Burning Love", "Separate Ways", "Always On My Mind", "An American Trilogy" etc. all needed a proper album to feature on. I've also been careful with song selection, trying to evenly balance the rockers and mid-to-uptempo numbers with the ballads and show-stoppers - whilst also presenting all new material. When I mean 'new', I mean that all the studio cuts have never been recorded or issued before by Elvis as studio tracks - and with the live material - none of the tracks have ever been released before by Elvis in live versions. So the fans get their money's worth.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, a song like "The Impossible Dream" best encapsulates the theme of this LP and the year of 1972 for Elvis. As the perfect album closer, and title song, it could have been used over the closing credits of the companion "Elvis On Tour" film, over a montage of footage and images of Elvis Presley's life and career from his childhood up 'til the present day (1972), instead of the original "Memories" ending.

This is a grand showpiece of all of Elvis Presley's many facets of his personality, shown within his music.


Elvis Presley: The Impossible Dream

Record 1: From Sunset to Vegas

Side 1: RCA Studio, Sunset Boulevard, Hollywood
Dialogue Intro: "My Daddy Said He'd Never Seen a Guitar Player Worth a Damn..."
Johnny B. Goode [March 30th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]
It's a Matter of Time [March 29th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]
Always On My Mind [March 29th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]
Burning Love [March 28th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]
Where Do I Go From Here [March 27th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]
Separate Ways [March 27th - RCA Studio C, Hollywood]


Side 2: Live In Las Vegas
A Big Hunk o' Love [February 16th M.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]
Never Been to Spain [February 16th M.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]
It's Over [February 17th D.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]
Little Sister/Get Back [February 14th M.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]
It's Impossible [February 16th M.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]
You Gave Me a Mountain [February 16th M.S - The Hilton Hotel, Las Vegas]


Record 2: From Dixieland to New York

Side 3: Elvis On Tour
That's All Right [June 10th E.S - Madison Square Garden, New York]
I Got a Woman/Amen [April 9th E.S - Coliseum, Hampton Roads]
I'll Remember You [June 10th A.S - Madison Square Garden, New York]
Reconsider Baby [June 10th A.S - Madison Square Garden, New York]
For the Good Times [April 10th - Coliseum, Richmond]
An American Trilogy [April 14th - Coliseum, Greensboro]


Side 4: Elvis On Tour
How Great Thou Art [April 9th E.S - Coliseum, Hampton Roads]
Lawdy, Miss Clawdy [April 9th E.S - Coliseum, Hampton Roads]
Heartbreak Hotel [April 18th - Convention Center Arena, San Antonio]
Bridge Over Troubled Water [April 14th - Coliseum, Greensboro]
Funny How Time Slips Away [April 10th - Coliseum, Richmond]
The Impossible Dream [June 10th E.S - Madison Square Garden, New York]