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Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:30 pm

eligain wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:I agree she knew what she was talking about and did care. If more people echoed what Lucille Ball said to Elvis it might have helped.

Elvis was getting bored with Vegas and working midnight shows didn't help the situation either, made it worse.

1970 - Elvis Presley should have been doing a world-tour instead of working at the International Hotel.



quote]


This was the problem with Elvis. If you confronted him about the drugs he just got rid of you. According to Marty, it was the real reason he fired Red and Sonny, because they (especially Red) were confronting him about the drugs. He pushed Marty away as well for the same reason. That's why I will never fault them for writing the book because it was the only way they could ever really confront him. There were only 3 people who could have helped Elvis; The Colonel, Vernon and Priscilla when she was married to him and they did very little. Cilla and Vernon are the only 2 who could have legally forced him into treatment.


If the whole group stuck together and confronted him about his drug issues what could he do, probably fire everyone knowing Elvis but alot of it is down to Vernon, Parker and his doctors not doing enough. Having said that there is only so much you can do. Pricilla was already gone by the time it got really out of hand. Lucille Ball was right to say something to Elvis, its only because she cared.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:49 pm

So was this really in 1970 or was it after?

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:30 pm

Mister Mike wrote:I remember reading somewhere that Lucille Ball had been invited to Elvis' suite in Vegas after one of his performances and that she hadn't been shy in expressing her opinion that Elvis seemed "in trouble" (with drugs). Apparently Elvis got wind of this, got mad and made it known that she should never be invited back ever again. Is that pretty much the story? What year did this happen?


Read/heard the same story over the years.....and apparently happened in august 73.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:43 pm

KingElvis wrote:
Mister Mike wrote:I remember reading somewhere that Lucille Ball had been invited to Elvis' suite in Vegas after one of his performances and that she hadn't been shy in expressing her opinion that Elvis seemed "in trouble" (with drugs). Apparently Elvis got wind of this, got mad and made it known that she should never be invited back ever again. Is that pretty much the story? What year did this happen?


Read/heard the same story over the years.....and apparently happened in august 73.


Ok thanks, that would make more sense. Big diff between 1970 and 1973! It had to be obvious to more than just Lucy by then!

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:47 pm

KingElvis wrote:
Mister Mike wrote:I remember reading somewhere that Lucille Ball had been invited to Elvis' suite in Vegas after one of his performances and that she hadn't been shy in expressing her opinion that Elvis seemed "in trouble" (with drugs). Apparently Elvis got wind of this, got mad and made it known that she should never be invited back ever again. Is that pretty much the story? What year did this happen?


Read/heard the same story over the years.....and apparently happened in august 73.

Sonny West states August 1973 (2007:291). Dr. John, referring to a friend, says 1970, and that story sounds credible too, so it's hard to tell. She could have seen him twice, though, but if so, it's hard to tell when the pleasant meeting back stage took place. West says that she was introduced from the stage (as well as Mr. Ball:)). If somebody have heard that on record we have the date, granted that she saw him just once. According to West Ball also came along with Petula Clark an Liza Minelli, and from differant sources I've understand they were there in '73. That won't give us any proofs either as Petula Clark saw him several times, but did Liza Minelli see him more than once?

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:10 pm

rjm wrote:-----
While I think it was drugs, not alcohol, (unless the columnist actually smelled it, or saw it, which I doubt), Elvis's conduct during this time is very disturbing, because for one thing, it almost makes the film seem like a kind of "lie." They were deliberately attempting to "recreate" what it had been like just a year earlier, and apparently Elvis just could not wait, for whatever reason, to throw it away. Throw the whole Comeback away. That is really getting to me - I've loved that film since I first saw it on TV. (I believe it was '75.) It will be hard to watch it now, for a while, anyway.

Being that it was still early September, I just can't work it out in my mind what was going on with him. Drug abuse usually doesn't escalate so quickly, and by all the other evidence, it did not. It was a process going from 1971 to 1973, and while it's clear that there were problems in late '70, this is just a lot to take in. It really is. Because something made him "go off," and engage in this terrible conduct. (Because he did get himself together after this, surely, for the time being.)

I know, of course, about the paternity suit, and the death threat, but I still don't think that can account for this.

I kept thinking about it, and I felt like it perhaps wasn't really as bad as it appeared, but perhaps he was trying to shout to those closest to him: "STOP ME!" Before, that is, it got so bad, it couldn't be stopped. I just don't know.

rjm


Excellent post. I and many other fans feel the same as well. This would have been the time period something should have been done by the entire mm together instead of worrying about being pushed out and/or saying they tried after being fired years later. It may have worked and may have not, but unfortunately, it never happened.

Image

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:49 pm

r&b wrote:So was this really in 1970 or was it after?


There is only one confirmed sighting of Ball at an Elvis Presley show, in September 1970, as noted on page 1. And Elvis' performances at that time had become erratic. If a summer 1973 recording surfaces where Elvis acknowledges Lucille Ball, that will help validate West's dating in his book.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:37 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
r&b wrote:So was this really in 1970 or was it after?


There is only one confirmed sighting of Ball at an Elvis Presley show, in September 1970, as noted on page 1. And Elvis' performances at that time had become erratic. If a summer 1973 recording surfaces where Elvis acknowledges Lucille Ball, that will help validate West's dating in his book.


"There is only one confirmed sighting of "Ball" at an Elvis Presley show." :lol:

Johnny Carson once referred to her as Lucille Testicle! :smt003

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:49 pm

It is so unfortunate that Elvis didn't listen to people like Lucy, Red, Sonny, and others. Things may have turned out a lot different for him, especially in August of 1977. It just shows how depression and other emotional issues can be so destructive.

rlj

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:38 pm

EPA4368 wrote:
rjm wrote:-----
While I think it was drugs, not alcohol, (unless the columnist actually smelled it, or saw it, which I doubt), Elvis's conduct during this time is very disturbing, because for one thing, it almost makes the film seem like a kind of "lie." They were deliberately attempting to "recreate" what it had been like just a year earlier, and apparently Elvis just could not wait, for whatever reason, to throw it away. Throw the whole Comeback away. That is really getting to me - I've loved that film since I first saw it on TV. (I believe it was '75.) It will be hard to watch it now, for a while, anyway.

Being that it was still early September, I just can't work it out in my mind what was going on with him. Drug abuse usually doesn't escalate so quickly, and by all the other evidence, it did not. It was a process going from 1971 to 1973, and while it's clear that there were problems in late '70, this is just a lot to take in. It really is. Because something made him "go off," and engage in this terrible conduct. (Because he did get himself together after this, surely, for the time being.)

I know, of course, about the paternity suit, and the death threat, but I still don't think that can account for this.

I kept thinking about it, and I felt like it perhaps wasn't really as bad as it appeared, but perhaps he was trying to shout to those closest to him: "STOP ME!" Before, that is, it got so bad, it couldn't be stopped. I just don't know.

rjm


Excellent post. I and many other fans feel the same as well. This would have been the time period something should have been done by the entire mm together instead of worrying about being pushed out and/or saying they tried after being fired years later. It may have worked and may have not, but unfortunately, it never happened.

Image


What made him go off like that and drug use doenst escalate that quickly? it sure does. I have experienced it in my family. If a person likes drugs (and it has been said Elvis took them because he liked them), it sure can get out of control quickly. It takes more and more to sustain whatever it is you get from them. I think this is the main reason. Sure the divorce, blah, blah. But he didnt want to ever be married anyway and why would he throw it all away with a woman lie Linda at his side? For me, the reason is he liked being high!

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:29 am

r&b wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:
rjm wrote:-----
While I think it was drugs, not alcohol, (unless the columnist actually smelled it, or saw it, which I doubt), Elvis's conduct during this time is very disturbing, because for one thing, it almost makes the film seem like a kind of "lie." They were deliberately attempting to "recreate" what it had been like just a year earlier, and apparently Elvis just could not wait, for whatever reason, to throw it away. Throw the whole Comeback away. That is really getting to me - I've loved that film since I first saw it on TV. (I believe it was '75.) It will be hard to watch it now, for a while, anyway.

Being that it was still early September, I just can't work it out in my mind what was going on with him. Drug abuse usually doesn't escalate so quickly, and by all the other evidence, it did not. It was a process going from 1971 to 1973, and while it's clear that there were problems in late '70, this is just a lot to take in. It really is. Because something made him "go off," and engage in this terrible conduct. (Because he did get himself together after this, surely, for the time being.)

I know, of course, about the paternity suit, and the death threat, but I still don't think that can account for this.

I kept thinking about it, and I felt like it perhaps wasn't really as bad as it appeared, but perhaps he was trying to shout to those closest to him: "STOP ME!" Before, that is, it got so bad, it couldn't be stopped. I just don't know.

rjm


Excellent post. I and many other fans feel the same as well. This would have been the time period something should have been done by the entire mm together instead of worrying about being pushed out and/or saying they tried after being fired years later. It may have worked and may have not, but unfortunately, it never happened.



What made him go off like that and drug use doenst escalate that quickly? it sure does. I have experienced it in my family. If a person likes drugs (and it has been said Elvis took them because he liked them), it sure can get out of control quickly. It takes more and more to sustain whatever it is you get from them. I think this is the main reason. Sure the divorce, blah, blah. But he didnt want to ever be married anyway and why would he throw it all away with a woman lie Linda at his side? For me, the reason is he liked being high!


I've heard some mm say he liked being high but I'm trying to find where I read Elvis supposedly said, "I'd rather be unconscious than miserable." Have you heard this quote?

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:32 pm

Sonny repeated the story on the "All The King's Men" video series about having introduced Lucille Ball, "...and her husband, Mr. Ball."

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:06 pm

EPA,
I thought I read the quote as "I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" as a response to why Elvis "needed" the pills, which if correct suggests that indeed there was an element of escape contrary to what others have said--if in fact this quote is legit. Now, with regard to where it came from...could it be "Revelations from the Memphis Mafia" or "Careless Love"? I really don't remember.
Elvis fan

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:26 pm

KHoots wrote:Sonny repeated the story on the "All The King's Men" video series about having introduced Lucille Ball, "...and her husband, Mr. Ball."


Gary Morton must have loved that.


771206_Gary Morton_Lucille Ball_Barbara Walters.JPG
Gary Morton, Lucy, Barbara Walters ("The Barbara Walters Special," CBS-TV, December 6, 1977)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Elvis was bored in the August/September 1970 season. He finished on September 7 and in 9 september he began the first tour in 13 years, without a break after an exhausting engagement. Guralnick noted in Careless Love that this summer Vegas gig was a "changing in the weather" and Elvis began to take more Placidyls and vitamin injections and also some clips from TTWII shows more puffiness in his face. I agree there are some changes from august 1969 to august 1970 and there are more obvious later in April 1972 because of the touring schedule, exhaustion, divorce and medication.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:46 pm

Elvis Fan wrote:EPA,
I thought I read the quote as "I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" as a response to why Elvis "needed" the pills, which if correct suggests that indeed there was an element of escape contrary to what others have said--if in fact this quote is legit. Now, with regard to where it came from...could it be "Revelations from the Memphis Mafia" or "Careless Love"? I really don't remember.
Elvis fan


"I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" thought I heard this in a YouTube clip with Larry Geller talking about Elvis. I'll see if I can find the clip. But lately it seems like more clips are being removed.

Image

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:25 pm

By the end of the 1970 Summer Festival, the decline started,

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:30 pm

EPA4368 wrote:
Elvis Fan wrote:EPA,
I thought I read the quote as "I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" as a response to why Elvis "needed" the pills, which if correct suggests that indeed there was an element of escape contrary to what others have said--if in fact this quote is legit. Now, with regard to where it came from...could it be "Revelations from the Memphis Mafia" or "Careless Love"? I really don't remember.
Elvis fan


"I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" thought I heard this in a YouTube clip with Larry Geller talking about Elvis. I'll see if I can find the clip. But lately it seems like more clips are being removed.

Image


Didn't the "I'd rather be unconscious than miserable" quote come from David Stanley in that Goldman paperback book about Elvis committing suicide?

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:59 pm

samses wrote:By the end of the 1970 Summer Festival, the decline started,

The decline was well underway by the end of the summer festival. There is no need to see TTWII as a lie though. He gave good shows in front of the cameras and showed what a great and talented performer he was. That he relaxed, maybe too much at times, after the cameras were gone, doesn't mean the early season was a lie. I'm sure there were good shows that season after August 13.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:34 pm

Jokerlola wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:
Elvis Fan wrote:EPA,
I thought I read the quote as "I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" as a response to why Elvis "needed" the pills, which if correct suggests that indeed there was an element of escape contrary to what others have said--if in fact this quote is legit. Now, with regard to where it came from...could it be "Revelations from the Memphis Mafia" or "Careless Love"? I really don't remember.
Elvis fan


"I'd rather feel nothing than the pain I feel everyday" thought I heard this in a YouTube clip with Larry Geller talking about Elvis. I'll see if I can find the clip. But lately it seems like more clips are being removed.


Didn't the "I'd rather be unconscious than miserable" quote come from David Stanley in that Goldman paperback book about Elvis committing suicide?


Talking to another fan this morning, he thought the quote came from David Stanley in Goldman's book as well. I no longer have the book, maybe someone can help and see if it's Goldman's book.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:48 pm

There are audience tapes of Elvis introducing Ball, Minelli, and Clark in August 1973. Thats when it happened. drugs were not a problem yet in 1970.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:20 pm

Drugs were becoming a problem by the end of the 1970 summer festival.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:37 pm

DEH wrote:There are audience tapes of Elvis introducing Ball, Minelli, and Clark in August 1973. Thats when it happened. drugs were not a problem yet in 1970.


Please cut out the misinformation.

1) The only known tape of such introduction is from the 8-06-1973 OS show, and Presley introduces Petula Clark, Guy Marks, Phyllis McGuire and Liza Minnelli. Not Ball.

2) Drugs were indeed a problem in 1970 as detailed in my prior posts on this topic.

Thanks.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:11 am

Peter Guralnick describes two key moments in the 70's of Elvis drugs' abuse: august/september 1970 (the "changing in the weather" moment -meaning Elvis fall in his old habits) and the February 1973 gig - a "watershed" in that "impossible month", to quote Peter.

Re: the Lucille Ball incident

Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:26 am

jurasic1968 wrote:Peter Guralnick describes two key moments in the 70's of Elvis drugs' abuse: august/september 1970 (the "changing in the weather" moment -meaning Elvis fall in his old habits) and the February 1973 gig - a "watershed" in that "impossible month", to quote Peter.


So, what happened in the 70 "changing the weather moment" and the 73 "watershed"?