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Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:13 am

In a battle of the bands competition of those who are the most famous that worked with Elvis, head to head, who do you think is superior to the other?

Drummer:
DJ Fontana or Ronnie Tutt

Guitarist:
Scotty Moore or James Burton

Pianist:
Glen D. Hardin or Tony Brown

Bassist:
Bill Black or Jerry Scheff

Backing Group:
The Jordanaires or The Sweet Inspirations


My picks.

Drummer: Ronnie Tutt
Guitarist: James Burton
Pianist: Tony Brown
Bassist: Bill Black
Backing Group: The Sweet Inspirations


Who are you choices?

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:16 am

Drummer: Ronnie Tutt
Guitarist: Scotty Moore
Pianist: Glen D. Hardin
Bassist: Jerry Scheff
Backing Group: The Jordanaires

Funny choice, Jords agains the Sweets... :?

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:18 am

It's kind of an apples and oranges argument, but the deciding issue has to be the music Elvis made with the musicians backing him. That is key. Some of your comparisons use the wrong vocalist or musician, too. See below.

SuspiciousMind wrote:In a battle of the bands competition of those who are the most famous that worked with Elvis, head to head, who do you think is superior to the other?

Drummer:
DJ Fontana or Ronnie Tutt

Guitarist:
Scotty Moore or James Burton

Pianist:
Glen D. Hardin or Tony Brown or Floyd Cramer

Bassist:
Bill Black or Jerry Scheff

Backing Group:
The Jordanaires or The Sweet Inspirations or the Imperials


My picks.

Drummer: Ronnie Tutt
Guitarist: James Burton
Pianist: Tony Brown
Bassist: Bill Black
Backing Group: The Sweet Inspirations


Who are you choices?

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:19 am

I loves me some Ronnie Tutt and James Burton but it's damn near blasphemous to put them over DJ and Scotty, two men who helped lay down the most ground-breaking, important music in rock and roll.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:39 am

SuspiciousMind, nice thread idea, but you could've put even more thought into it.

Drummer:
DJ Fontana or Bob Lanning or Ronnie Tutt

Guitarist:
Scotty Moore or Hank Garland or James Burton

Pianist:
Gordon Stoker or Dudley Brooks or Floyd Cramer or Glen D. Hardin or Tony Brown

Bassist:
Bill Black or Bob Moore or Jerry Scheff

Backing Male Group:
The Jordanaires or Imperials or Stamps

Bass Singer:
Hugh Jarrett or Ray Walker or Armond Morales or Richard Sterben or J.D. Sumner

Backing Female Group:
The Blossoms or Sweet Inspirations

Soprano Singer:
Millie Kirkham or Cissy Houston or Kathy Westmoreland

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:26 am

Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and later DJ - in the beginning these guys were a unit, together they were essentially a band. Later, Elvis would have backing bands. Whilst some of the later combinations may have more technical ability the music created in the 50s with the core unit and the likes of Floyd Cramer has a further reaching legacy. Scotty for example played/came up with some classic guitar riffs/solos.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:09 am

I selected Tutt over Fontana based on him being a more talented and advanced drummer. He added more to Elvis' recordings (IMO) more than Fontana did. That being said, I do enjoy DJ's drumming also. Just enjoy Tutt's more. Allowing him those incredible drum solos on his later concerts was a brilliant idea by Elvis.

I selected Burton because he's considered to be arguably one of the greatest lead guitarist to ever live. A true legend! I think Burton added more ingredients to Elvis' recordings than Moore did during his time with Elvis.

I guess I could have broke down the backing groups a little better by having The Jordanaires going up against the Imperials since they worked the longest with Elvis, and The Blossoms against The Sweet Inspirations.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:22 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:I selected Tutt over Fontana based on him being a more talented and advanced drummer. He added more to Elvis' recordings (IMO) more than Fontana did. That being said, I do enjoy DJ's drumming also. Just enjoy Tutt's more. Allowing him those incredible drum solos on his later concerts was a brilliant idea by Elvis.

I selected Burton because he's considered to be arguably one of the greatest lead guitarist to ever live. A true legend! I think Burton added more ingredients to Elvis' recordings than Moore did during his time with Elvis.


You're not a musician, I take it?

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:33 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:I selected Tutt over Fontana based on him being a more talented and advanced drummer. He added more to Elvis' recordings (IMO) more than Fontana did.

Elvis' best studio recordings come from 1970 and Tutt doesn't appear on any of them. Elvis' best 70s live masters herald from Feb 1970 and Tutt doesn't appear on any of those either. Ronnie's a great drummer but DJ contributed more to Elvis' musical legacy as far as a lasting sound (Hound Dog's machine gun playing but one example).

SuspiciousMind wrote:I selected Burton because he's considered to be arguably one of the greatest lead guitarist to ever live. A true legend! I think Burton added more ingredients to Elvis' recordings than Moore did during his time with Elvis.

Absurd, absolutely absurd. Burton does not have things like Hound Dog solos (50s punk rock!) from his time with Elvis. Scotty contributed guitar work to Elvis' 50s recordings that no other lead guitarist matched working with Elvis. He stamped a sound that is ingrained with Elvis' greatest recordings. I'd even place Hank Garland above Burton. Again, James did some fine work, and is an excellent guitarist. But technical proficiency does not always equal great works.

Talent and how fast one can drum, or play guitar do not always go hand in hand. Some of the greatest, most enjoyable recordings have been moulded by players with limited abilities.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:39 pm

Blue River wrote:SuspiciousMind, nice thread idea, but you could've put even more thought into it.

Drummer:
DJ Fontana or Bob Lanning or Ronnie Tutt

Guitarist:
Scotty Moore or Hank Garland or James Burton

Pianist:
Gordon Stoker or Dudley Brooks or Floyd Cramer or Glen D. Hardin or Tony Brown

Bassist:
Bill Black or Bob Moore or Jerry Scheff

Backing Male Group:
The Jordanaires or Imperials or Stamps

Bass Singer:
Hugh Jarrett or Ray Walker or Armond Morales or Richard Sterben or J.D. Sumner

Backing Female Group:
The Blossoms or Sweet Inspirations

Soprano Singer:
Millie Kirkham or Cissy Houston or Kathy Westmoreland

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:42 pm

As the doc mentioned, apples with oranges.
Bill Black vs Jerry Scheff, come on two totally different styles, even a different instrument with an upright bass vs electric fender.

The 50's band was more important in musical history. The 70's band probably technically better.
Let's just keep it like that.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:45 pm

Robert wrote:As the doc mentioned, apples with oranges.
Bill Black vs Jerry Scheff, come on two totally different styles, even a different instrument with an upright bass vs electric fender.

The 50's band was more important in musical history. The 70's band probably technically better.
Let's just keep it like that.

Indeed. And Elvis was backed by differing combinations of musicians on the 70s. I generally prefer Jerry Carrigan's drumming work with Elvis in the 70s over Ronnie's. They are both fine musicians.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Robert wrote:As the doc mentioned, apples with oranges.
Bill Black vs Jerry Scheff, come on two totally different styles, even a different instrument with an upright bass vs electric fender.

The 50's band was more important in musical history. The 70's band probably technically better.
Let's just keep it like that.



That's right

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:19 pm

Matthew wrote:Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and later DJ - in the beginning these guys were a unit, together they were essentially a band. Later, Elvis would have backing bands. Whilst some of the later combinations may have more technical ability the music created in the 50s with the core unit and the likes of Floyd Cramer has a further reaching legacy. Scotty for example played/came up with some classic guitar riffs/solos.



Agreed :!: Scotty in particuler was a far more exciting lead guitarist than James, who always comes over to me more as a country picker. Scotty's solos on Hound Dog, Too Much, Anyplace Is Paradise, Ready Teddy, Mystery Train, Baby, Lets Play House, Blue Suede Shoes etc are groundbreaking and electric, can't imagine James doing these. I consider his guitar solos were better on the Ricky Nelson tracks than Elvis's.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:41 pm

Chris Roberts wrote:
Matthew wrote:Elvis, Scotty, Bill, and later DJ - in the beginning these guys were a unit, together they were essentially a band. Later, Elvis would have backing bands. Whilst some of the later combinations may have more technical ability the music created in the 50s with the core unit and the likes of Floyd Cramer has a further reaching legacy. Scotty for example played/came up with some classic guitar riffs/solos.



Agreed :!: Scotty in particuler was a far more exciting lead guitarist than James, who always comes over to me more as a country picker. Scotty's solos on Hound Dog, Too Much, Anyplace Is Paradise, Ready Teddy, Mystery Train, Baby, Lets Play House, Blue Suede Shoes etc are groundbreaking and electric, can't imagine James doing these. I consider his guitar solos were better on the Ricky Nelson tracks than Elvis's.




Haven't you heard James' solo on "Mytery Train"/"Tiger Man" from the '69 "In Person" album/CD? He DID play on those and I think he did a damn fine job, IMO. James, even though he mostly is rooted in country music and played for Ricky Nelson from 1958-1965, still does a fine job on these songs. Elvis didn't hire James to replicate what Scotty did. I don't think that's what he was looking for when he went back to touring and recording in the 1970s.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:22 pm

Ronnie Tutt
James Burton
Glen D. Hardin
Bill Black
The Jordanaires

Brian

Re: Battle of the bands

Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:42 pm

Justin wrote:I loves me some Ronnie Tutt and James Burton but it's damn near blasphemous to put them over DJ and Scotty, two men who helped lay down the most ground-breaking, important music in rock and roll.



I agree witht that sentiment, and also if you ask guys like Keith and Clapton, they probably would also. Maybe in this case history triumphs over actual skill?

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:34 am

Matthew wrote:
Robert wrote:As the doc mentioned, apples with oranges.
Bill Black vs Jerry Scheff, come on two totally different styles, even a different instrument with an upright bass vs electric fender.

The 50's band was more important in musical history. The 70's band probably technically better.
Let's just keep it like that.

Indeed. And Elvis was backed by differing combinations of musicians on the 70s. I generally prefer Jerry Carrigan's drumming work with Elvis in the 70s over Ronnie's. They are both fine musicians.


Does Jerry Carrigan have his own drumline? Ronnie does. Seriously, Carrigan's drumming was watered down compared to Tutt thundering drumming style.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:40 am

Tony Trout wrote:Haven't you heard James' solo on "Mytery Train"/"Tiger Man" from the '69 "In Person" album/CD? He DID play on those and I think he did a damn fine job, IMO. James, even though he mostly is rooted in country music and played for Ricky Nelson from 1958-1965, still does a fine job on these songs. Elvis didn't hire James to replicate what Scotty did. I don't think that's what he was looking for when he went back to touring and recording in the 1970s.

James is a fine picker, but remember: the reason they're performing Mystery Train at all is due to Elvis, Scotty, and Bill's 1955 recording, with Scotty's excellent work driving the song along. James Burton did not bring a timeless quality to the music made with Elvis the way Scotty did which again, is not a negative reflection on James' qualities as a guitar player.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:41 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:Does Jerry Carrigan have his own drumline? Ronnie does. Seriously, Carrigan's drumming was watered down compared to Tutt thundering drumming style.

My goodness you're right! Ronnie has a drum line so therefore his playing for Elvis is the bestest in the whole wide universe!

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:11 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
Matthew wrote:Indeed. And Elvis was backed by differing combinations of musicians on the 70s. I generally prefer Jerry Carrigan's drumming work with Elvis in the 70s over Ronnie's. They are both fine musicians.


Does Jerry Carrigan have his own drumline? Ronnie does. Seriously, Carrigan's drumming was watered down compared to Tutt thundering drumming style.


Jerry Carrigan is in the Country Music Hall of Fame, and is acknowledged as a hugely influential percussionist.

Through first-hand examination of the playing of top Nashville drummer Buddy Harman, and through his own talent and tenacity, Carrigan persevered to become a first-call drummer on Nashville sessions and one of country music’s most prolific and important session players from the 1960s to the 1990s. Carrigan’s drum work can be heard on such classic hits as Bobby Bare’s “Marie Laveau,” Waylon Jennings’s “Only Daddy That’ll Walk the Line,” George Jones’s “He Stopped Loving Her Today,” Jerry Lee Lewis’s “Middle Aged Crazy,” Jerry Reed’s “When You’re Hot, You’re Hot,” Charlie Rich’s “Behind Closed Doors,” Kenny Rogers’s “The Gambler,” Ray Stevens’s “Everything Is Beautiful,” and Tony Joe White’s “Polk Salad Annie,” among scores of others.

http://countrymusichalloffame.org/past-programs/view/82?month=02&day=21&year=2009



Musical Style
Carrigan is largely responsible for establishing the "big fat drum sound" associated with Nashville recordings during the 1970s. He said: "I started playing real loose, deep-sounding snare drums on country records. Billy Sherrill loved it. So I started experimenting with different things, different kinds of drums. I bought the first set of concert tom-toms that were in Nashville. I think that's one reason the producers liked my sound. I had a different approach."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Carrigan#Musical_Style



You may like Ronnie Tutt and his signature drum line all you wish, but there are many other drummers who made superior records with Elvis, and played with panache:

D.J. Fontana
Buddy Harman
Hal Blaine
Gene Chrisman
Jerry Carrigan

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:43 am

r&b wrote:
Justin wrote:I loves me some Ronnie Tutt and James Burton but it's damn near blasphemous to put them over DJ and Scotty, two men who helped lay down the most ground-breaking, important music in rock and roll.



I agree witht that sentiment, and also if you ask guys like Keith and Clapton, they probably would also. Maybe in this case history triumphs over actual skill?


Neither Richards nor Clapton, or Page or Hendrix for that matter, would call Scotty Moore's playing a triumph of history over skill. It was not hyperbole that his was "the guitar that changed the world." And Fontana and Black laid down a solid rhythmic base that would underpin virtually every crucial 1950s Presley master.


570600_Fontana_Black_Moore_MGM.JPG
Fontana, Black and Moore at MGM, circa June 1957


These guys are revered by the cognoscenti for a reason.

For example:


571000_Jailhouse Rock lobby poster.JPG


"Jailhouse Rock" (Leiber, Stoller)
Radio Recorders, West Hollywood, CA
Tuesday, April 30, 1957

Guitar: Elvis Presley
Guitar: Scotty Moore
Bass: Bill Black
Drums: D.J. Fontana
Piano: Dudley Brooks

On this track Moore and Fontana took it upon themselves to concoct a striking introduction for the title song, taking their cue from Glenn Miller's swing version of "Anvil Chorus," itself originally from the opera "Il trovatore" by Verdi.


phpBB [video]

Glenn Miller and His Orchestra, "Anvil Chorus - Part 1 - Fox Trot" (RCA Bluebird 10982, January 1941)


410100_RCA Bluebird 10982_Miller.JPG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anvil_Chorus
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:48 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
Matthew wrote:Indeed. And Elvis was backed by differing combinations of musicians on the 70s. I generally prefer Jerry Carrigan's drumming work with Elvis in the 70s over Ronnie's. They are both fine musicians.


Does Jerry Carrigan have his own drumline? Ronnie does. Seriously, Carrigan's drumming was watered down compared to Tutt thundering drumming style.


Jerry Carrigan is in the Country Music Hall of Fame, and is acknowledged as a hugely influential percussionist.

Through first-hand examination of the playing of top Nashville drummer Buddy Harman, and through his own talent and tenacity, Carrigan persevered to become a first-call drummer on Nashville sessions and one of country music’s most prolific and important session players from the 1960s to the 1990s. Carrigan’s drum work can be heard on such classic hits as Bobby Bare’s “Marie Laveau,” Waylon Jennings’s “Only Daddy That’ll Walk the Line,” George Jones’s “He Stopped Loving Her Today,” Jerry Lee Lewis’s “Middle Aged Crazy,” Jerry Reed’s “When You’re Hot, You’re Hot,” Charlie Rich’s “Behind Closed Doors,” Kenny Rogers’s “The Gambler,” Ray Stevens’s “Everything Is Beautiful,” and Tony Joe White’s “Polk Salad Annie,” among scores of others.

http://countrymusichalloffame.org/past-programs/view/82?month=02&day=21&year=2009



Musical Style
Carrigan is largely responsible for establishing the "big fat drum sound" associated with Nashville recordings during the 1970s. He said: "I started playing real loose, deep-sounding snare drums on country records. Billy Sherrill loved it. So I started experimenting with different things, different kinds of drums. I bought the first set of concert tom-toms that were in Nashville. I think that's one reason the producers liked my sound. I had a different approach."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Carrigan#Musical_Style



You may like Ronnie Tutt and his signature drum line all you wish, but there are many other drummers who made superior records with Elvis, and played with panache:

D.J. Fontana
Buddy Harman
Hal Blaine
Gene Chrisman
Jerry Carrigan



Is Carrigan still alive? I thought I read somewhere a long time ago that he passed away? And, no, I'm not thinking of Larry Londin. I know he passed away in 1992.

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Tony Trout wrote:Is Carrigan still alive? I thought I read somewhere a long time ago that he passed away? And, no, I'm not thinking of Larry Londin. I know he passed away in 1992.


Yes, still in town, still around.

http://www.myspace.com/jerrycarrigan

Re: Battle of the bands

Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:45 pm

Drummer: Ronnie Tutt

Guitarist: James Burton

Pianist: Glen D. Hardin

Bassist: Jerry Scheff

Backing Group: The Sweet Inspirations

It´s really complicated to choose between The Jordanaires or The Sweet Inspirations... It would be better if it was something like: "The Jordanaires" X "The Imperials"...

Anyway, good topic!