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Re: "Today" on FTD

Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:38 am

It does not credit the person who mastered the selections on Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD, could be Ferrante or Baxter. But Sebastian Jeansson's mastering on FTD's Guitar Man CD leave the 1999 version masters in the dust!

Re: "Today" on FTD

Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:21 am

skatterbrane wrote:Okay I just compared And I Love You So take 2 on the Platinum box, and the one on FTD by Lene Reidel, and the nod goes to FTD, however, I do not hear any MORE reverb on one vs the other.

The reason it sounds the same is because it IS the same. The outtake on the FTD is sourced from the Platinum CD - one of the problems with the Today FTD. Rather than remix the outtakes to present a uniform experience all the previously released outtake material is simply ported over from their earlier CD releases like: Platinum, Today Tomorrow & Forever, The 70s Masters (Tiger Man), 6363 Sunset, Great Country Songs etc. 2005 was a curious year for FTD Classic Album production quality - we got one of the best (Elvis Is Back!) and the worst (Today) within months of each other.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:02 pm

Ah, that explains it. Elvis Is Back is KILLER!

Re: "Today" on FTD

Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:56 pm

We could have this kind of discussion for years. It's one of the reasons why Elvis' catalogue is now in such a mess, for in order to have a superior 'mix' or 'master' of a certain song, or to own songs with a more complete fade out, one often needs to own around 3 copies of each album, or compilations with certain songs on, very often having to resort to the bootlegs or Japanese cd's for the complete or better picture.
And when all this material is 'remastered' all over again by someone else in the not too distant future, the discussions will continue......

Re: "Today" on FTD

Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:15 pm

Tony.. wrote:We could have this kind of discussion for years. It's one of the reasons why Elvis' catalogue is now in such a mess, for in order to have a superior 'mix' or 'master' of a certain song, or to own songs with a more complete fade out, one often needs to own around 3 copies of each album, or compilations with certain songs on, very often having to resort to the bootlegs or Japanese cd's for the complete or better picture.
And when all this material is 'remastered' all over again by someone else in the not too distant future, the discussions will continue......




Please explain this to me Tony - what are you stating or saying here Tony - Don't you like whats been done on the Ftd Cd - Ithink that this cd is very good and enjoyable - Luckily we have so many versions as fans - If we had to live in 70s - 80s before Ftd came out - we would have had just one version of Lp / Cd - Luckily we all had these versions -Thanks To Ftd and all of their colleagues who produced em - Please think on this Tony -Deep down i know for sure you agree with what Im sayn - thanks -

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:18 am

I have both the US and the UK version of Hit Story. And even thought they were made well after Sony took over. I compared My Boy on these two editons and compared them to the My Boy on the Asesini mastered Good Times CD. (which I think the sound of the whole CD sucks) and surprisingly neither version of Hit Story uses that master. The US seemingly used the older master of the three, it is so-so. But the UK version uses the Ferrante master, which is glorious, again, more dynamics and resolution, Elvis's voice is up front and has the least reverb of the three versions.

Ya know? This will drive me crazy seeking out the best masters for each and every song, but I probably will do so, if I can. I bought the 30 CD The Complete Masters, which I guess are ALL Asesini, for a reference. So far, it is only his work on the Stax and Today sessions that irk me. All the instruments are smeared and indistinct and Elvis' voice is recessed and echo laden.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:52 am

skatterbrane wrote:I have both the US and the UK version of Hit Story. And even thought they were made well after Sony took over. I compared My Boy on these two editons and compared them to the My Boy on the Asesini mastered Good Times CD. (which I think the sound of the whole CD sucks) and surprisingly neither version of Hit Story uses that master. The US seemingly used the older master of the three, it is so-so. But the UK version uses the Ferrante master, which is glorious, again, more dynamics and resolution, Elvis's voice is up front and has the least reverb of the three versions.

Ya know? This will drive me crazy seeking out the best masters for each and every song, but I probably will do so, if I can. I bought the 30 CD The Complete Masters, which I guess are ALL Asesini, for a reference. So far, it is only his work on the Stax and Today sessions that irk me. All the instruments are smeared and indistinct and Elvis' voice is recessed and echo laden.

I'm not at home at the moment to make aural comparisons, but by memory I'd say Vic's 2007 remasters are the best, with a few exceptions.
These are my observations, many of you may disagree:

ALBUMS:
- "Elvis Presley" (The First Album) FTD, by Kevan Budd (2006)
- "Harum Scarum" Soundtrack (Double Features) by Dick Baxter/Bill Lacey (1994)
- "Frankie and Johhny" Soundtrack (Double Features), by Dick Baxter/James Nichols (1994)
- "Memories - The '68 Comeback Special", by Jan Eliasson/Dennis Ferrante (1998)
- "Aloha From Hawaii - Via Satellite", by Dennis Ferrante (1998)
- "Promised Land" (Expanded Edition), by Dennis Ferrante (2000) - Except for the title track, see below

LOOSE SONGS:
- Trying To Get To You from "The King Of Rock 'n' Roll - The Complete 50's Masters", by Dick Baxter/Paul Brizzi (1992)
- Don't Cry, Daddy from "ELVIS - 2nd To None", by Ray Bardani/Vic Anesini (2003) - Yes, by Vic, but better than the original mix remastered by him in 2007
- In The Ghetto from "ELV1S - 30 #1 Hits", by David Bendeth/Ray Bardani/George Marino (2002)
- Kentucky Rain from "ELVIS - 2nd To None", by Ray Bardani/Vic Anesini (2003) - Yes, by Vic, but better than the original mix remastered by him in 2007
- You Don't Have To Say You Love Me from "ELVIS - 2nd To None", by Ray Bardani/Vic Anesini (2003) - Yes, by Vic, but better than the original mix remastered by him in 2007
- Rags To Riches from "Elvis Aron Presley" (The Silver Box), by Dick Bogert/Dick Baxter/Dennis Ferrante (1998)
- Amazing Grace (Take 2) from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face from "Elvis Aron Presley" (The Silver Box), by Dick Bogert/Dick Baxter/Dennis Ferrante (1998)
- Early Mornin' Rain from "Elvis Now" by Dick Baxter (1992)
- (That's What You Get) For Lovin' Me from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- Lady Madonna from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- Until It's Time For You To Go from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- I'm Leavin' from "Burning Love", by Dennis Ferrante (1999)
- We Can Make The Morning from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- I Shall Be Released from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- It's Only Love from "Burning Love", by Dennis Ferrante (1999)
- Separate Ways from "Burning Love", by Dennis Ferrante (1999)
- Burning Love from "ELV1S - 30 #1 Hits", by David Bendeth/Ray Bardani/George Marino (2002)
- Always On My Mind from "ELVIS - 2nd To None", by Ray Bardani/Vic Anesini (2003) - Yes, by Vic, but better than the original mix remastered by him in 2007
- It's Diff'rent Now from "Walk A Mile In My Shoes - The Essential 70's Masters", by Bill Lacey/James Nichols/Dennis Ferrante (1995)
- Promised Land from "ELVIS - 2nd To None", by Ray Bardani/Vic Anesini (2003) - Yes, by Vic, but better than the original mix remastered by him in 2007

There are a few more, but I can't remember a.t.m.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:04 am

I prefer Vic's mastering of "Hard Luck" over the one on double features. The Double features has the harmonica moving across the soundstage between the two speakers, Vics' is rock solid in the center-left soundfield. If you take every aspect of a recording into account, it seems that very few mastering jobs do all things best. Since Hard Luck, What Every Woman Lives For and Please Don't Stop Loving Me are the only three songs from this album I listen to, I cannot comment on the others.

Thank you for your very useful post, if you have a chance to expand on it, I would appreciate it.
Last edited by skatterbrane on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:08 am

"Promised Land" (Expanded Edition), by Dennis Ferrante (2000) - Except for the title track, see below"

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!! This simply is head and shoulder above Vic's version of Good TImes. Loving Arms is my favorite example to compare.
Last edited by skatterbrane on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:15 am

I really like Kentucky Rain from The Memphis Record!

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:40 am

skatterbrane wrote:"Promised Land" (Expanded Edition), by Dennis Ferrante (2000) - Except for the title track, see below"

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!! This simply is head and shoulder above Vic's version of Good TImes. Loving Arms is my favorite example to compare.

We need to get our language right here. There is no "Vic's version" in this discussion, there is Vic Anesini's remaster of "Felton's version", and there is Dennis Ferrante's master of his own "version".

When comparing different mixes we need to refer to the mixing engineers, not the mastering engineers. When comparing masterings of the same mix, we then refer to the mastering engineers.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:34 pm

Matthew wrote:
skatterbrane wrote:"Promised Land" (Expanded Edition), by Dennis Ferrante (2000) - Except for the title track, see below"

YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!! This simply is head and shoulder above Vic's version of Good TImes. Loving Arms is my favorite example to compare.

We need to get our language right here. There is no "Vic's version" in this discussion, there is Vic Anesini's remaster of "Felton's version", and there is Dennis Ferrante's master of his own "version".

When comparing different mixes we need to refer to the mixing engineers, not the mastering engineers. When comparing masterings of the same mix, we then refer to the mastering engineers.

You're right and Felton should have been fired. In EVERY case where the unfinished master can be compared to what Felton ended up doing to it, he only made a sow's ear out of a silk purse. Why anyone would want to preserve his legacy is beyond me.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:01 pm

karlos wrote:
Tony.. wrote:We could have this kind of discussion for years. It's one of the reasons why Elvis' catalogue is now in such a mess, for in order to have a superior 'mix' or 'master' of a certain song, or to own songs with a more complete fade out, one often needs to own around 3 copies of each album, or compilations with certain songs on, very often having to resort to the bootlegs or Japanese cd's for the complete or better picture.
And when all this material is 'remastered' all over again by someone else in the not too distant future, the discussions will continue......




Please explain this to me Tony - what are you stating or saying here Tony - Don't you like whats been done on the Ftd Cd - Ithink that this cd is very good and enjoyable - Luckily we have so many versions as fans - If we had to live in 70s - 80s before Ftd came out - we would have had just one version of Lp / Cd - Luckily we all had these versions -Thanks To Ftd and all of their colleagues who produced em - Please think on this Tony -Deep down i know for sure you agree with what Im sayn - thanks -


As you'll have no doubt read, Karlos, since my posting, many others have explained fuller. I''ll give you a further example; to complete the picture of "Elvis Today", you need the FTD, but for superior sound on the masters you need the Japanese 20/24bit remaster. To obtain the full length version with the complete fade out of "Fairtytale" (over 40 seconds longer), you need the bootleg CD "Unedited masters - Hollywood to Nashville" and you will need the FTD for the out-takes. And don't forget the 70's box set and/or "The complete masters" box set if you want alternate 'mastering' done by somebody else to the "Today" FTD!!! To complete the picture fuller on some of the out-takes you also need "Christmas Today" bootleg. And it is only SINCE the 80's that we have been supplied with this kind of material that we have aquired this urge to at last, grasp 'the full picture' of Elvis' recording career, but the FTD's very often don't complete the picture. The same, or a similar, scenario exists with many FTD releases, not just "Elvis Today"

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:56 pm

skatterbrane wrote:You're right and Felton should have been fired. In EVERY case where the unfinished master can be compared to what Felton ended up doing to it, he only made a sow's ear out of a silk purse. Why anyone would want to preserve his legacy is beyond me.

We must remember two things here:

1) 1970s production aesthetics were not the same as 1990s (when Ferrante did his remixes) production aesthetics.
2) Those original 1970s mixes had Elvis' stamp of approval (who we know called for changes on occasion) - so they must be preserved and available.

Like them or not they are the historically correct lifetime mixes of Elvis Presley's 70s legacy.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:59 pm

Tony.. wrote:As you'll have no doubt read, Karlos, since my posting, many others have explained fuller. I''ll give you a further example; to complete the picture of "Elvis Today", you need the FTD, but for superior sound on the masters you need the Japanese 20/24bit remaster.

Actually, the masters sound pretty good on the FTD, better than the Japanese "far too bright" 20-bit CD from the late 90s. Anesini's Complete Masters versions also sound better than the old Japanese CD.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:43 pm

skatterbrane wrote:Ah, that explains it. Elvis Is Back is KILLER!


But wasn't the FTD "Elvis is back" consigned to the dustbin (the masters only) when somebody else 'remastered' the songs again for the "Elvis is back" legacy release a couple of years later? (I don't know as I didn't buy it).

Re: "Today" on FTD

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:16 pm

I know of PLENTY of 70s records that sound fantastic. And the 1960-1963 Bill Porter recordings are the best in all of Elvis's career. It is not so much 70's aethetics that I do not like, it is Felton's aethetics that I do not like. And, as far as Elvis approving of them, that does not give me any comfort at that point of his life. The fact of the matter is, many 60s and 70s recordings I much prefer in general over today's. Historical accuracy aside, I just cannot approve of the Felton mixes on much of the 70s material.

It seems to me that Felton's work did whatever it could to obscure Elvis' voice, to add a LOT of echo, and bury it in the mix. And at the same time he ruined the subtle detail of the individual instruments. Smeared the dynamics, the and dampened the natural "liveliness" of the recordings

For example Fleetwood Mac's album with Rihannon sounds wonderful, but the followup, the huge seller Rumours, sounds like trash. Most of the early Fleetwood Mac recordings on Blue Horizon with Peter Green sound very, very good. If you want to talk about questionable aethetics, it would have to be the 80's with big boom echo laden drums and synthetic harsh highend. Hell even Phil Collins WHO IS A DRUMMER used drum machines on his albums!

The Joan Armatrading albums done by Glynn Johns in the 70's are fantastic, the later stuff that came in the 80s are generally noisy and cavernous. Poco's Crazy Eyes album also sounds great. So in many, many cases I LIKE 70s' aesthetics.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:44 am

Tony.. wrote:But wasn't the FTD "Elvis is back" consigned to the dustbin (the masters only) when somebody else 'remastered' the songs again for the "Elvis is back" legacy release a couple of years later?

No, because both are excellent remasters. Versions consigned to the dustbin by both the Legacy Edition and the FTD include the Japanese 24-bit Paper Sleeve, and the late 90s expanded edition.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:53 am

I have only heard a few of the Japanese CDs and though the physical quality and the packaging is often superior, their source tapes must be poor and compound that with their propensity to boost the eq on the upper mids/ lower highs, they make them too bright and tinny. Plus that frequency range is where a lot of sonic problems live anyway. The Legacy and FTD Elvis Is Back are the tits! And I wonder how the new Elvis Is Back and 24 Karat Hits will compare?

Have you ever heard Japanese highend stereo speakers? Probably not because the audiophile world does not favor the Japanese speakers, much for the same reason, they boost the upper midrange and the lower highs. I think the Japanese must be near deaf in that spectrum of normal human hearing.

Back when I was into LPs their LPs were BEAUTIFUL, well package and they used the best JVC virgin vinyl. But the same problem with the eq. I much preferred British pressings, very warm and yet still very "transparent" sounding. All the speakers I have ever liked have been British as well.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:16 am

Oh yeah! I just tried out Promised Land on the 2nd To None CD, it totally cooks. Yes, it is the best!

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:37 am

skatterbrane wrote:I prefer Vic's mastering of "Hard Luck" over the one on double features.


Are we a hardcore fan base or what? ;-)

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:29 am

YEP!

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:39 pm

Is the 2nd to None CD the same mastering for Europe as USA? I only have the European version, I never played most of it as I (mistakenly?) thought it was brickwalled like ELV1S.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:04 pm

I will check it out, I have the USA version of 2nd to none, and the USA version of Hit Story, and the UK version of Hit Story. So, I will compare the UK version of Hit Story with US 2nd to None later today. You see most of the time I play Elvis is when I am doing work, it takes a real "sit down session" in front of the stereo to evaluate a recording properly.

I know that the US version of Hit Story corrected some of the mastering errors found on ELV1S but the UK version did not. I have the UK expanded special edition of ELV1S with outtakes on disc 2. One of the outtakes is A Big Hunk Of Love that was mistakenly put on the regular US version if ELV1S.

Re: "Today" on FTD

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:30 pm

skatterbrane wrote:I know that the US version of Hit Story corrected some of the mastering errors found on ELV1S but the UK version did not. I have the UK expanded special edition of ELV1S with outtakes on disc 2. One of the outtakes is A Big Hunk Of Love that was mistakenly put on the regular US version if ELV1S.

Actually, there are 2 UK versions of Hitstory.

One with the Disc 1 errors, and one with the revised corrected disc.