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Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:45 pm

Rob wrote:It's not very well said at all.

Elvis changed his show as much or more than many entertainers that I have seen down through the years. His first three or four songs were always the same, but if you check each year, you will see that he added his new hits into the lineup each year with the exception of his last. We have the luxury of hearing show after show with many of the same setlists. However, I saw othe entertainers for years and they basically had the same show year after year. Elvis did better than most.

Why did he throw scarves? Seriously? Because he wanted to give back something to his fans who wanted to take home part of him.

I agree the same towns year after years should have changed into bigger and better tours outside of the United States. I also agree that the jumpsuits should have been replaced as the '70s wore on, but the other issues chosen to pick apart here is not "Very well said."


I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's. Regardless of how many new songs were inserted or rotated into the set, the basic structure and pacing remained exactly the same, tour in and tour out. Besides maybe less than a handful of songs, could any person (outside this board) really tell the difference between a 1973 set to a 1975, '76 or '77 setlist? They look so similar to one another one could confuse them for being various sets from different nights of one single tour. But these were the sets over the course of several tours over several years! The famous first show of the August 1974 Engagement in Vegas says it all: Elvis decided to overhaul the entire show; rearranges songs, digs out songs he had never done before, and completely turns the setlist upside down. Then what happens? After a few nights, he goes right back to the old format and never ever looks back. What he did on that first show is an example of changing the set around...adding an impromptu performance of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" at the tail end of a show for the people in Salt Lake City--is not.

Elvis throwing scarves to rabid female fans was a cute idea to last maybe a few tours or so but by 1977...Sweet Moses, did he even know what he was doing anymore by that point? That Omaha clip of him singing "Teddy Bear" is depressing as hell. Here was a guy reduced to what appears to be a circus act, mumbling a song and whipping scarves at the crowd. Any other performer in their right frame of mind would have said, "Hey, wait a minute. I've already done this a thousand times, there's no need to do this at every show anymore. Why am I here?...am I here for the music or just to throw out scarves?"

If Elvis was touring with the same show, the same songs, with the same shtick (scarf throwing, JD divebombs etc) and in same cities, it was no surprise why he also kept the jumpsuits. This was all he knew. He wasn't looking for change. He was too far deep into this routine to ever turn back. My first post--without flat out saying it--was that all these factors illustrate the behavior of a troubled man. For a man who was as vibrant, spontaneous and impulsive as Elvis was early in his life--it was quite disturbing to see him so obviously stuck at a dead end during those final years. He had no inspiration to keep his show artistically challenging for himself, his band or his audience, he never followed through with performing overseas and he did nothing to ensure he had equipped and capable management to guide him towards further growth. These weren't just simple choices he made, but rather symptoms of a much greater underlining problem. And that was my point.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:06 pm

rlj4ep wrote:It's easy for us to offer our respective opinions on this topic. Yet by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows. I can recall having conversations with different people before the shows from 1974 until 1977 and every time I would hear, "I wonder what jumpsuit he will wear tonight?" I don't recall those converstions with the 1971 or 1972 shows I attended. There was a level of excitement, anticipation, of the jumpsuit just as there was for Elvis. It has already been stated how the jumpsuit collection at Graceland is a very popular part of the visit.
That being said, if it is true that Elvis "didn't care" because of his health issues in his later years, alongside that I would suggest that he knew there was an expectation from the fans to see a jumpsuit. Let's face it, with his weight issues for the filming of EIC, why would you wear the sundial jumspuit? The gold, the flashiness of the suit, even the regal impression of that suit was giving the fans what they wanted.
Obviously, there isn't a simple answer to Elvis and to why he did or did not do certain things. The so-called "concert years" do seem to follow the same tragic pattern as the so-called "movie years." In many ways it is a shame when one considers what Elvis still could have accomplished in his life. Maybe, to some extent, we fans should have been more demanding. Who knows....

rlj


Not sure if I agree... "by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows."

I saw Elvis three times... twice in '72 at Chicago Stadium... awesome shows! And Pontiac, Michigan, Silverdome, December 31, 1975/January 01, 1976. Many fans were saying before the show... "Hope Elvis isn't wearing a jumpsuit again, and it's time to move on from those jumpsuits." Sorry to say, imo, NYE show not Elvis' finest hour.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:07 pm

Justin wrote:I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's......

I didn't say "any," I said "many."

I have literally seen over 100 various concerts throughout the years and Elvis kept his set up to date more than most. As for the scarves, he didn't toss them out for his sake. He tossed them out to give his audience something in return. Regarless of how old (or young) they were, they absolutely cherished a lifetime keepsake from Elvis Presley. There is a lot of things that we, as hardcore fans, wish were different. As I mentioned, keep in mind that most of these people saw Elvis in concert one time only. Who was to know that 30+ years later we would be hearing show after show? In that aspect, yes, it can get very tiring. By the way, when I see him toss scarves in Omaha, I get enjoyment out of watching the fans trying to get one and do not get "depressed as hell."

I agree with some of your points -- some I couldn't disagree with more.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:11 pm

EPA4368 wrote:After Aloha, Elvis should have dropped the jumpsuits, dumped the Colonel, stopped touring and taken a year off to get healthy. Other than that, everything is fine.

Image


Life 40 years later is sooooooo much easier :wink:

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:42 pm

EPA4368 wrote:
rlj4ep wrote:It's easy for us to offer our respective opinions on this topic. Yet by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows. I can recall having conversations with different people before the shows from 1974 until 1977 and every time I would hear, "I wonder what jumpsuit he will wear tonight?" I don't recall those converstions with the 1971 or 1972 shows I attended. There was a level of excitement, anticipation, of the jumpsuit just as there was for Elvis. It has already been stated how the jumpsuit collection at Graceland is a very popular part of the visit.
That being said, if it is true that Elvis "didn't care" because of his health issues in his later years, alongside that I would suggest that he knew there was an expectation from the fans to see a jumpsuit. Let's face it, with his weight issues for the filming of EIC, why would you wear the sundial jumspuit? The gold, the flashiness of the suit, even the regal impression of that suit was giving the fans what they wanted.
Obviously, there isn't a simple answer to Elvis and to why he did or did not do certain things. The so-called "concert years" do seem to follow the same tragic pattern as the so-called "movie years." In many ways it is a shame when one considers what Elvis still could have accomplished in his life. Maybe, to some extent, we fans should have been more demanding. Who knows....

rlj


Not sure if I agree... "by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows."

I saw Elvis three times... twice in '72 at Chicago Stadium... awesome shows! And Pontiac, Michigan, Silverdome, December 31, 1975/January 01, 1976. Many fans were saying before the show... "Hope Elvis isn't wearing a jumpsuit again, and it's time to move on from those jumpsuits." Sorry to say, imo, NYE show not Elvis' finest hour.


I don't know if I buy that that. I was around a lot of Elvis fans in the 70's and never heard anyone say that. I did hear the wife of my Dad's friend say that she was disappointed that Elvis didn't wear one of his jumpsuits when they saw him in Vegas 1974 (he wore one of the leather two-piece suits).

When I saw him in 76, he wore the white Bicentennial suit and everyone around us gushed about what a great and different suit it was. It looked great in person from afar and no one had ever seen it yet and the blue puff sleeves were different. I actually hate those suits now and think he looked awful in them but in person, from afar it looked great! The suits were evolving. The two piece "pilot" jumpsuits and jackets, the aztec, bear claw and bicentennial suits with the puff sleeves were the last suits made for Elvis and they were going in a different direction than before. The Indian, King of Spades, Mayan Sundial were all suits from 74.

I do think that when he gained weight, he should have ditched the jumpsuits because they accentuated his weight and by 77, they were starting to become out of style. 75 should have been the last hurrah for them.
Last edited by eligain on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:48 pm

eligain wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:
rlj4ep wrote:It's easy for us to offer our respective opinions on this topic. Yet by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows. I can recall having conversations with different people before the shows from 1974 until 1977 and every time I would hear, "I wonder what jumpsuit he will wear tonight?" I don't recall those converstions with the 1971 or 1972 shows I attended. There was a level of excitement, anticipation, of the jumpsuit just as there was for Elvis. It has already been stated how the jumpsuit collection at Graceland is a very popular part of the visit.
That being said, if it is true that Elvis "didn't care" because of his health issues in his later years, alongside that I would suggest that he knew there was an expectation from the fans to see a jumpsuit. Let's face it, with his weight issues for the filming of EIC, why would you wear the sundial jumspuit? The gold, the flashiness of the suit, even the regal impression of that suit was giving the fans what they wanted.
Obviously, there isn't a simple answer to Elvis and to why he did or did not do certain things. The so-called "concert years" do seem to follow the same tragic pattern as the so-called "movie years." In many ways it is a shame when one considers what Elvis still could have accomplished in his life. Maybe, to some extent, we fans should have been more demanding. Who knows....

rlj


Not sure if I agree... "by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows."

I saw Elvis three times... twice in '72 at Chicago Stadium... awesome shows! And Pontiac, Michigan, Silverdome, December 31, 1975/January 01, 1976. Many fans were saying before the show... "Hope Elvis isn't wearing a jumpsuit again, and it's time to move on from those jumpsuits." Sorry to say, imo, NYE show not Elvis' finest hour.


I don't know if I buy that that. I was around a lot of Elvis fans in the 70's and never heard anyone say that. I did hear the wife of my Dad's friend say that she was disappointed that Elvis didn't wear one of his jumpsuits when they saw him in Vegas 1974 (he wore one of the leather two-piece suits).


And therein lies the entire problem. Disappointed he didnt wear a jumpsuit instead of disappointed he didnt sing Return To Sender or whatever. Good gosh!

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:28 pm

Justin wrote:
Rob wrote:It's not very well said at all.

Elvis changed his show as much or more than many entertainers that I have seen down through the years. His first three or four songs were always the same, but if you check each year, you will see that he added his new hits into the lineup each year with the exception of his last. We have the luxury of hearing show after show with many of the same setlists. However, I saw othe entertainers for years and they basically had the same show year after year. Elvis did better than most.

Why did he throw scarves? Seriously? Because he wanted to give back something to his fans who wanted to take home part of him.

I agree the same towns year after years should have changed into bigger and better tours outside of the United States. I also agree that the jumpsuits should have been replaced as the '70s wore on, but the other issues chosen to pick apart here is not "Very well said."


I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's. Regardless of how many new songs were inserted or rotated into the set, the basic structure and pacing remained exactly the same, tour in and tour out. Besides maybe less than a handful of songs, could any person (outside this board) really tell the difference between a 1973 set to a 1975, '76 or '77 setlist? They look so similar to one another one could confuse them for being various sets from different nights of one single tour. But these were the sets over the course of several tours over several years! The famous first show of the August 1974 Engagement in Vegas says it all: Elvis decided to overhaul the entire show; rearranges songs, digs out songs he had never done before, and completely turns the setlist upside down. Then what happens? After a few nights, he goes right back to the old format and never ever looks back. What he did on that first show is an example of changing the set around...adding an impromptu performance of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" at the tail end of a show for the people in Salt Lake City--is not.

Elvis throwing scarves to rabid female fans was a cute idea to last maybe a few tours or so but by 1977...Sweet Moses, did he even know what he was doing anymore by that point? That Omaha clip of him singing "Teddy Bear" is depressing as hell. Here was a guy reduced to what appears to be a circus act, mumbling a song and whipping scarves at the crowd. Any other performer in their right frame of mind would have said, "Hey, wait a minute. I've already done this a thousand times, there's no need to do this at every show anymore. Why am I here?...am I here for the music or just to throw out scarves?"

If Elvis was touring with the same show, the same songs, with the same shtick (scarf throwing, JD divebombs etc) and in same cities, it was no surprise why he also kept the jumpsuits. This was all he knew. He wasn't looking for change. He was too far deep into this routine to ever turn back. My first post--without flat out saying it--was that all these factors illustrate the behavior of a troubled man. For a man who was as vibrant, spontaneous and impulsive as Elvis was early in his life--it was quite disturbing to see him so obviously stuck at a dead end during those final years. He had no inspiration to keep his show artistically challenging for himself, his band or his audience, he never followed through with performing overseas and he did nothing to ensure he had equipped and capable management to guide him towards further growth. These weren't just simple choices he made, but rather symptoms of a much greater underlining problem. And that was my point.


It's tough for any devoted fan to admit, but your summary is 100% spot-on.

The best way to look at Presley's performing slide is to look at the type of programs he put together between July 1969 and November 1970. The songs did not stay the same, and he incorporated his contemporary work from American Sound (a critical and commercial breakthrough) as much if not more so than his older hits, at least until March 1970. And his commitment to singing, appearance and arrangements was fairly strong, overall.

Good times never seemed so good.

After that, things began to follow a routine, as so aptly described above. Sad as it is to admit, this started no long after J.D. Sumner and the Stamps Quartet replaced the Imperials in November 1971.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:40 pm

Bruce Sprinsgteen changes his set list nightly during the same tour! Nuff said.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:55 pm

eligain wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:
rlj4ep wrote:It's easy for us to offer our respective opinions on this topic. Yet by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows. I can recall having conversations with different people before the shows from 1974 until 1977 and every time I would hear, "I wonder what jumpsuit he will wear tonight?" I don't recall those converstions with the 1971 or 1972 shows I attended. There was a level of excitement, anticipation, of the jumpsuit just as there was for Elvis. It has already been stated how the jumpsuit collection at Graceland is a very popular part of the visit.
That being said, if it is true that Elvis "didn't care" because of his health issues in his later years, alongside that I would suggest that he knew there was an expectation from the fans to see a jumpsuit. Let's face it, with his weight issues for the filming of EIC, why would you wear the sundial jumspuit? The gold, the flashiness of the suit, even the regal impression of that suit was giving the fans what they wanted.
Obviously, there isn't a simple answer to Elvis and to why he did or did not do certain things. The so-called "concert years" do seem to follow the same tragic pattern as the so-called "movie years." In many ways it is a shame when one considers what Elvis still could have accomplished in his life. Maybe, to some extent, we fans should have been more demanding. Who knows....

rlj


Not sure if I agree... "by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows."

I saw Elvis three times... twice in '72 at Chicago Stadium... awesome shows! And Pontiac, Michigan, Silverdome, December 31, 1975/January 01, 1976. Many fans were saying before the show... "Hope Elvis isn't wearing a jumpsuit again, and it's time to move on from those jumpsuits." Sorry to say, imo, NYE show not Elvis' finest hour.


I don't know if I buy that that. I was around a lot of Elvis fans in the 70's and never heard anyone say that. I did hear the wife of my Dad's friend say that she was disappointed that Elvis didn't wear one of his jumpsuits when they saw him in Vegas 1974 (he wore one of the leather two-piece suits).

When I saw him in 76, he wore the white Bicentennial suit and everyone around us gushed about what a great and different suit it was. It looked great in person from afar and no one had ever seen it yet and the blue puff sleeves were different. I actually hate those suits now and think he looked awful in them but in person, from afar it looked great! The suits were evolving. The two piece "pilot" jumpsuits and jackets, the aztec, bear claw and bicentennial suits with the puff sleeves were the last suits made for Elvis and they were going in a different direction than before. The Indian, King of Spades, Mayan Sundial were all suits from 74.

I do think that when he gained weight, he should have ditched the jumpsuits because they accentuated his weight and by 77, they were starting to become out of style. 75 should have been the last hurrah for them.


I understand that. The next morning having breakfast in a restaurant listening to fans you would have thought we went to different shows... some loved the show and others didn't. One group traveled all the way from the UK to see Elvis bring in the New Year and didn't have kind words about the show. Believe me, it wasn't easy listening to them and seeing their faces feeling disappointed. My brother and I only drove from Chicago to Pontiac, Michigan to see the show and was disappointed. We couldn't imagine traveling all the way from the UK and then feeling being disappointed.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:05 am

Justin wrote:I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's. Regardless of how many new songs were inserted or rotated into the set, the basic structure and pacing remained exactly the same, tour in and tour out. Besides maybe less than a handful of songs, could any person (outside this board) really tell the difference between a 1973 set to a 1975, '76 or '77 setlist?


Anyone on this board can see the difference between a 1969 setlist and a 1970 setlist in a wink of the eye. Same goes for a 1971, a 1972 or a 1973 setlist. All have the same frame but are quite different in tone, pace and showstoppers. 1974 shows were quite different from 1973 shows with new songs from the Stax sessions but in 1974 and 1975 shows looked more the same then in previous years/ tours. The 1976 setlist was most of the time a very standard rundown of the same songs and the alterations made in 1977 was that less and less demanding songs were performed, which resulted in very mediocre setlists like performed in Madison.

Justin wrote:If Elvis was touring with the same show, the same songs, with the same shtick (scarf throwing, JD divebombs etc) and in same cities, it was no surprise why he also kept the jumpsuits. This was all he knew. He wasn't looking for change. He was too far deep into this routine to ever turn back. My first post--without flat out saying it--was that all these factors illustrate the behavior of a troubled man. For a man who was as vibrant, spontaneous and impulsive as Elvis was early in his life--it was quite disturbing to see him so obviously stuck at a dead end during those final years. He had no inspiration to keep his show artistically challenging for himself, his band or his audience, he never followed through with performing overseas and he did nothing to ensure he had equipped and capable management to guide him towards further growth. These weren't just simple choices he made, but rather symptoms of a much greater underlining problem. And that was my point.


From 1974 on all artistic signs were pointing at a man in deep trouble. Symtoms of a much bigger underlining problem as you wrote so accurately.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:47 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
The best way to look at Presley's performing slide is to look at the type of programs he put together between July 1969 and November 1970. The songs did not stay the same, and he incorporated his contemporary work from American Sound (a critical and commercial breakthrough) as much if not more so than his older hits, at least until March 1970. And his commitment to singing, appearance and arrangements was fairly strong, overall.


Absolutely. Those years were vibrant and exciting for good reason. Attention and care went into each tour's setlist and he was careful to design an exciting and challenging set of songs that interested him. Things most definitely settled in by 1972 and it laid down the template for what was to come in those later years.

Alexander wrote:
Justin wrote:I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's. Regardless of how many new songs were inserted or rotated into the set, the basic structure and pacing remained exactly the same, tour in and tour out. Besides maybe less than a handful of songs, could any person (outside this board) really tell the difference between a 1973 set to a 1975, '76 or '77 setlist?


Anyone on this board can see the difference between a 1969 setlist and a 1970 setlist in a wink of the eye. Same goes for a 1971, a 1972 or a 1973 setlist. All have the same frame but are quite different in tone, pace and showstoppers. 1974 shows were quite different from 1973 shows with new songs from the Stax sessions but in 1974 and 1975 shows looked more the same then in previous years/ tours. The 1976 setlist was most of the time a very standard rundown of the same songs and the alterations made in 1977 was that less and less demanding songs were performed, which resulted in very mediocre setlists like performed in Madison


The 1976 and 1977 tours were practically one in the same...I don't even think of them as two separate years. 1973 to 1975 went through some changes here and there--but all very minor. We're talking about a few songs in the middle of the set---hardly anything to imply that each tour was significantly different from the last. A lot of artists and bands in the 70's toured all over the world and sure, while they had a few songs that were staples in their set, a lot of them went out on the road with a fresh new setlist devoted just for that tour. Once the tour was over and they'd go out again, rehearsals would take place and a fresh new setlist would be created for the new tour. None of that ever happened with Elvis after 1972---except for once: the August 1974 Hilton engagement that I referenced earlier.
Last edited by Justin on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:00 am

Justin wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The best way to look at Presley's performing slide is to look at the type of programs he put together between July 1969 and November 1970. The songs did not stay the same, and he incorporated his contemporary work from American Sound (a critical and commercial breakthrough) as much if not more so than his older hits, at least until March 1970. And his commitment to singing, appearance and arrangements was fairly strong, overall.


Absolutely. Those years were vibrant and exciting for good reason. Attention and care went into each tour's setlist and he was careful to design an exciting and challenging set of songs that interested him. Things most definitely settled in by 1972 and it laid down the template for what was to come in those later years.


It can be credibly argued that, by 1972, Elvis had discovered the blind adulation meant no matter what he did on stage, he would be heralded as the Second Coming. So the fear of failure, and the excitement of a challenge, left him.

This is one reason it is so irksome, to this day, to note those fans that accept or fully embrace halfhearted run-throughs of his early classics. Elvis realized the fans didn't care, so neither did he.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:21 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Justin wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:The best way to look at Presley's performing slide is to look at the type of programs he put together between July 1969 and November 1970. The songs did not stay the same, and he incorporated his contemporary work from American Sound (a critical and commercial breakthrough) as much if not more so than his older hits, at least until March 1970. And his commitment to singing, appearance and arrangements was fairly strong, overall.


Absolutely. Those years were vibrant and exciting for good reason. Attention and care went into each tour's setlist and he was careful to design an exciting and challenging set of songs that interested him. Things most definitely settled in by 1972 and it laid down the template for what was to come in those later years.


It can be credibly argued that, by 1972, Elvis had discovered the blind adulation meant no matter what he did on stage, he would be heralded as the Second Coming. So the fear of failure, and the excitement of a challenge, left him.

This is one reason it is so irksome, to this day, to note those fans that accept or fully embrace halfhearted run-throughs of his early classics. Elvis realized the fans didn't care, so neither did he.


1972 is a very clear cutoff point for Elvis on many levels, your argument definitely holds water.

I also don't get the fascination with the recordings from this late period either. I have to admit that about a week ago I went ahead and did a little cleaning in my iPod...took out songs and artists I really didn't want in there anymore. I got to Elvis and I realized that I had a lot of late period concert material: almost all the live FTDs and also various live bootleg recordings. I didn't like the idea that my Elvis section was saturated by a high number of below-standard stuff--and worst of all I almost never listened to it. While I would never get rid of my actual FTD discs, I did remove a lot of them from iPod. I kept nothing past 1974; the few exceptions were Pittsburgh '76 and the "Showtime 76" FTD sets. I didn't want recordings in there where I'd have to press the skip button on every other song just to get through it. I realize now that much of the "collecting" of Elvis' music that I have done over the years would be better classified as collecting for academic or research purposes and not necessarily for entertainment purposes.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:25 am

drjohncarpenter wrote: It can be credibly argued that, by 1972, Elvis had discovered the blind adulation meant no matter what he did on stage, he would be heralded as the Second Coming. So the fear of failure, and the excitement of a challenge, left him.

This is one reason it is so irksome, to this day, to note those fans that accept or fully embrace halfhearted run-throughs of his early classics. Elvis realized the fans didn't care, so neither did he.


I agree with you, Doc. It also divided a lot of fans as well. Some fans saying Elvis went out on tour and knocked them dead over and over again with incredible concerts and others expressing disappointment.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:26 am

Justin wrote:I realize now that much of the "collecting" of Elvis' music that I have done over the years would be better classified as collecting for academic or research purposes and not necessarily for entertainment purposes.



I collect for the purpose of both academic and entertainment.....which makes me a true fan. (I think)

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:41 am

You're a truer fan than I, apparently. I can treat Elvis' music on an academic level just as well but I would rather do it with the more high-quality performances.

I may have a acquired a bunch of 1975/76/77 recordings over the years, but I realize now that my main incentive to want to hear them at the time was purely because I was genuinely curious about something I had never heard before. It was the mystique of a new recording that lured me in. With that said, rarely was I ever entertained by them where I could put them on and actually enjoy what was coming out of my speakers or headphones. I would listen to a recording, file it away and literally never hear it again. I realized recently that whenever I am in the mood to listen to a live recording...I naturally go for something in the '69-'72 range. My curiosities about anything later in his career has long expired.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:45 am

r&b wrote:
eligain wrote:
EPA4368 wrote:
rlj4ep wrote:It's easy for us to offer our respective opinions on this topic. Yet by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows. I can recall having conversations with different people before the shows from 1974 until 1977 and every time I would hear, "I wonder what jumpsuit he will wear tonight?" I don't recall those converstions with the 1971 or 1972 shows I attended. There was a level of excitement, anticipation, of the jumpsuit just as there was for Elvis. It has already been stated how the jumpsuit collection at Graceland is a very popular part of the visit.
That being said, if it is true that Elvis "didn't care" because of his health issues in his later years, alongside that I would suggest that he knew there was an expectation from the fans to see a jumpsuit. Let's face it, with his weight issues for the filming of EIC, why would you wear the sundial jumspuit? The gold, the flashiness of the suit, even the regal impression of that suit was giving the fans what they wanted.
Obviously, there isn't a simple answer to Elvis and to why he did or did not do certain things. The so-called "concert years" do seem to follow the same tragic pattern as the so-called "movie years." In many ways it is a shame when one considers what Elvis still could have accomplished in his life. Maybe, to some extent, we fans should have been more demanding. Who knows....

rlj


Not sure if I agree... "by the mid-seventies the jumpsuits really became part of the excitement of the Elvis shows."

I saw Elvis three times... twice in '72 at Chicago Stadium... awesome shows! And Pontiac, Michigan, Silverdome, December 31, 1975/January 01, 1976. Many fans were saying before the show... "Hope Elvis isn't wearing a jumpsuit again, and it's time to move on from those jumpsuits." Sorry to say, imo, NYE show not Elvis' finest hour.


I don't know if I buy that that. I was around a lot of Elvis fans in the 70's and never heard anyone say that. I did hear the wife of my Dad's friend say that she was disappointed that Elvis didn't wear one of his jumpsuits when they saw him in Vegas 1974 (he wore one of the leather two-piece suits).


And therein lies the entire problem. Disappointed he didnt wear a jumpsuit instead of disappointed he didnt sing Return To Sender or whatever. Good gosh!


Actually my Dad's friend's wife wasn't a hardcore Elvis fan, she just liked Elvis. I don't think most Elvis fans cared whether he sang Return To Sender or not.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:37 pm

Justin wrote:You're a truer fan than I, apparently. I can treat Elvis' music on an academic level just as well but I would rather do it with the more high-quality performances.

I may have a acquired a bunch of 1975/76/77 recordings over the years, but I realize now that my main incentive to want to hear them at the time was purely because I was genuinely curious about something I had never heard before. It was the mystique of a new recording that lured me in. With that said, rarely was I ever entertained by them where I could put them on and actually enjoy what was coming out of my speakers or headphones. I would listen to a recording, file it away and literally never hear it again. I realized recently that whenever I am in the mood to listen to a live recording...I naturally go for something in the '69-'72 range. My curiosities about anything later in his career has long expired.


agree there, I rarely play anything 75 onwards, can't do with all the solo slots and Sherril...... :roll: :roll:

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:26 pm

Justin wrote:You're a truer fan than I, apparently. I can treat Elvis' music on an academic level just as well but I would rather do it with the more high-quality performances.

I may have a acquired a bunch of 1975/76/77 recordings over the years, but I realize now that my main incentive to want to hear them at the time was purely because I was genuinely curious about something I had never heard before. It was the mystique of a new recording that lured me in. With that said, rarely was I ever entertained by them where I could put them on and actually enjoy what was coming out of my speakers or headphones. I would listen to a recording, file it away and literally never hear it again. I realized recently that whenever I am in the mood to listen to a live recording...I naturally go for something in the '69-'72 range. My curiosities about anything later in his career has long expired.


All good points.

The later period of the '70s is really only interesting for rare "one-off" performances or dissecting "crisis" shows like the 9-02-1974 CS.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:14 am

Back to the jumpsuit story.
Not everything was great in 1970...

Image

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:44 am

Robert wrote:Back to the jumpsuit story.
Not everything was great in 1970...

Image


It is a fact that the vast majority of the 1970 gigs -- and his outfits -- are of a very high standard.

FYI, that image is a fake.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:37 am

Justin wrote:
Rob wrote:It's not very well said at all.

Elvis changed his show as much or more than many entertainers that I have seen down through the years. His first three or four songs were always the same, but if you check each year, you will see that he added his new hits into the lineup each year with the exception of his last. We have the luxury of hearing show after show with many of the same setlists. However, I saw othe entertainers for years and they basically had the same show year after year. Elvis did better than most.

Why did he throw scarves? Seriously? Because he wanted to give back something to his fans who wanted to take home part of him.

I agree the same towns year after years should have changed into bigger and better tours outside of the United States. I also agree that the jumpsuits should have been replaced as the '70s wore on, but the other issues chosen to pick apart here is not "Very well said."


I don't particularly agree that Elvis kept his show as varied as any other act in the 70's. Regardless of how many new songs were inserted or rotated into the set, the basic structure and pacing remained exactly the same, tour in and tour out. Besides maybe less than a handful of songs, could any person (outside this board) really tell the difference between a 1973 set to a 1975, '76 or '77 setlist? They look so similar to one another one could confuse them for being various sets from different nights of one single tour. But these were the sets over the course of several tours over several years! The famous first show of the August 1974 Engagement in Vegas says it all: Elvis decided to overhaul the entire show; rearranges songs, digs out songs he had never done before, and completely turns the setlist upside down. Then what happens? After a few nights, he goes right back to the old format and never ever looks back. What he did on that first show is an example of changing the set around...adding an impromptu performance of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" at the tail end of a show for the people in Salt Lake City--is not.

Elvis throwing scarves to rabid female fans was a cute idea to last maybe a few tours or so but by 1977...Sweet Moses, did he even know what he was doing anymore by that point? That Omaha clip of him singing "Teddy Bear" is depressing as hell. Here was a guy reduced to what appears to be a circus act, mumbling a song and whipping scarves at the crowd. Any other performer in their right frame of mind would have said, "Hey, wait a minute. I've already done this a thousand times, there's no need to do this at every show anymore. Why am I here?...am I here for the music or just to throw out scarves?"

If Elvis was touring with the same show, the same songs, with the same shtick (scarf throwing, JD divebombs etc) and in same cities, it was no surprise why he also kept the jumpsuits. This was all he knew. He wasn't looking for change. He was too far deep into this routine to ever turn back. My first post--without flat out saying it--was that all these factors illustrate the behavior of a troubled man. For a man who was as vibrant, spontaneous and impulsive as Elvis was early in his life--it was quite disturbing to see him so obviously stuck at a dead end during those final years. He had no inspiration to keep his show artistically challenging for himself, his band or his audience, he never followed through with performing overseas and he did nothing to ensure he had equipped and capable management to guide him towards further growth. These weren't just simple choices he made, but rather symptoms of a much greater underlining problem. And that was my point.

Love every single word of that. Thanks Justin.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:36 pm

Justin, you're absolutely right. Elvis unfortunately wasn't capable to change his repertoire, lifestyle, concert format (including the jumpsuits) in the last 2 years of his life (since the sad shows from august 1975 in Las Vegas). From that moment on he almost went downhill, except for a few good shows in later 1976.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:46 pm

promiseland wrote:I think the change should have happened right after "Aloha From Hawaii". It was then time for a new change, and a new challenge, sadly neither had happened.



Agreed. This in many ways was a landmark performance, a very good high point to end that phase of his career. Surely after this he should have done what most stars of his status would do - take time of, rest up and contemplate his future direction. What I wish he had done at this point, after several months rest, would be to do some serious studio recordings, followed by a revamped show on the world stage. Alternativly a return to film making but, of course, with serious roles. The jump suites had definatly had their day by 1973.

Unfortunatly he was, by the mid 70's, in as big a rut as he had been in the mid 60's.

Re: Why didn't Elvis abandon the jumpsuits?

Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:51 pm

Robert wrote:If you read about the events of what happended in those final months, depression and health problems, I realize more than ever that he knew the end was near.


He did "give up" that is for sure. He kept trying up until June, but I think he thought he could ride it out and everything would get better on its own. It didn't.