FINALLY, PD LAWS HAVE OFFICIALLY CHANGED!!

as you also misunderstand that PD releases are "cheap" in the main

sorry I meant you were cheap

And, frankly, there is more to life than one man.

if you actually seen my collection that spans over 35 yrs you wouldn`t make that stupid comment

Well, considering we are talking of music over 50 years old, that doesn't really help, now does it?

It changes nothing for the recordings which are originally released before 1963 so what is achieved for Elvis legacy by the new PD law? Nothing, unless you believe Elvis made his impact after 1962.

However I'm not too sad about this. Most of the best music was released prior to 1963. That music remains better available at nice prices than the music released after 1963. I hope and suspect this will help many people to explore for instance original blues legends instead of those British blues bands that covered them.

it simply stops this crap from continuing!!! I can guarantee you that the amount of PD releases would not have reduced because elvis career was about to hit a low point - PD labels would still be all over his catalog...waiting for every new year to arrive...however your final remarks on this topic do show a little more insight

No it doesn´t, the recordings prior to 1963 will be released over and over again. Actually I don´t mind at all because it leads to more exposure for those recordings of the golden age of Rock & Roll which otherwise was likely to shift to 60's music. This might create new interest in Rock & Roll. Nowadays one can buy a lot of nice Cd´s in mainstream department stores. I´m not talking about Elvis but I think of the releases like the label releases as done by One Day Music.
http://www.notnowmusic.com/One%20Day%20 ... oprock.htm

Because of these PD releases, people who normally would not buy this stuff, now cheaply buy 1940's, 1950's and early 1960's music.
Next to that, these PD labels often release very rare material too. Material that otherwise would have never been heard by many people but a few collectors who paid top-price or people who bought it at the time.

Because of these PD releases, people who normally would not buy this stuff, now cheaply buy 1940's, 1950's and early 1960's music.
Next to that, these PD labels often release very rare material too. Material that otherwise would have never been heard by many people but a few collectors who paid top-price or people who bought it at the time.

Yes, the argument within this thread against PD releases seems to be solely wages around MRS - one company out of many.

As for Matthew's argument - once again this is waged solely around Elvis releases, and could just as easily be waged against Venus, for example, who released the MSG material just a matter of months before Sony announced their own product. And yet nobody seems to give a damn about bootlegs screwing FTD, just one relatively small, not very prolific PD company.

To argue for or against PD solely around Elvis and the good and bad effects on his legacy is ridiculous, as is the suggestion that PD releases always come cheap. Often they don't. The label Fresh Sounds, which also includes Essential Jazz Classics, retails at around £10 a throw, but also includes material in their releases which is not available elsewhere, and often never has been (not all of their releases are PD either, but the majority are). Virtually all of their releases are of PD material. And let's not forget that the majors make the most of the PD laws too. Universal recently issued the complete studio masters of Billie Holiday in a boxed set for about £30, but actually didn't own all of the recordings, using the PD law in order to release the ones that they didn't own.

Keith Richards- As I said I'm not an audiophile. For me the sound on MRS' GI Blues was good enough. I love the packaging and the thoroughness of the concept.

Again on Matthew's point if a company like MRS is no threat to the majors why worry about them? If you have a product to sell that has better sound and if people value the better sound, you will still sell that product. If you like the packaging and the fact that you had the songs nearly a year before Sony released them, well then you're better off with MRS. Competition is good.

The sense of entitlement belongs to the record companies not the public. Long, long ago a general consensus was established that keeping intellectual property in the hands of a few was not for the common good. THat's why most patents are generally relatively short, because it's important to get those ideas out there and to improve and expand upon them. Popular music is no different. From sampling to using the hits in your own student projects to building your own compilations, it aids the common good. It's better for the music. It's better for the public.

The sense of entitlement is solely the record companies. They believe that since they had this exclusive time to make gobs of money off these recordings they should hold that right forever. They don't recognize what they had was a privilege more than a right.

The idea of PD companies as quick buck companies cashing in is absurd. Even the cheapest, shoddiest PD company is most likely not bringing in fortunes. They're making money in the music business mostly because they love music. After all how much money is there to be made on the latest Elvis greatest hits when there are a 100 others on the market and have been for 30 years? How much money is there to be made on a Lowell Fulson boxed set? Reality check people. Companies like Proper and MRS are in the business because they love and care about this music and want their own say in the great debate.

As for Matthew's argument - once again this is waged solely around Elvis releases, and could just as easily be waged against Venus, for example, who released the MSG material just a matter of months before Sony announced their own product. And yet nobody seems to give a damn about bootlegs screwing FTD, just one relatively small, not very prolific PD company.

The comparison of bootleg companies to some of these PD labels is kinda on target but not in the way presented. The availability, quantities, distribution, and accessibility of bootlegs in 2013 is tiny. Yet, even down this small part of the world Elvis' CD racks are filled with Hallmark titles claiming to be Elvis' original albums, including Elvis Is Back! Poorly produced, cheap titles. And it's not just Elvis product being diluted here. Then you get the MRS products claiming to be the end all in quality, "righting wrongs" which are actually mutton dressed as lamb as far as sound quality goes.

The Venus MSG titles were not competing at retail the way some PD titles are, no bootlegs are. And the point that the antics of some of these labels, like MRS, hinder the future release of unreleased materials seems to be overlooked here, including in Bike's oh so "astute" follow up posts. I wonder if some of you would be crying a different tune if the '56 Hayride show had remained unreleased, if the various materials on Tupelo has remained hidden away. Sure, this is presented through an Elvis lens - this is an Elvis fan forum - but it's not an issue isolated to Elvis Presley vault materials.

as you also misunderstand that PD releases are "cheap" in the main

sorry I meant you were cheap

And, frankly, there is more to life than one man.

if you actually seen my collection that spans over 35 yrs you wouldn`t make that stupid comment

Well, considering we are talking of music over 50 years old, that doesn't really help, now does it?

OMG you truly are one of a kind, that`s 35 yrs of collecting you doorknob

No it doesn´t, the recordings prior to 1963 will be released over and over again. Actually I don´t mind at all because it leads to more exposure for those recordings of the golden age of Rock & Roll which otherwise was likely to shift to 60's music. This might create new interest in Rock & Roll. Nowadays one can buy a lot of nice Cd´s in mainstream department stores. I´m not talking about Elvis but I think of the releases like the label releases as done by One Day Music.

again let me break this down for the uneducated;

elvis recordings from 1963 onwards (that means forward) as well as others will not see PD until 2033...but yes the prior 1963 recordings stay as they are!!! Which is just my point here YOUR STILL GETTING AN ABUNDANCE OF RECORDINGS SPANNING THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC UP UNTIL 1963 SO WHY COMPLAIN SO MUCH, some people really need to get a life

The comparison of bootleg companies to some of these PD labels is kinda on target but not in the way presented. The availability, quantities, distribution, and accessibility of bootlegs in 2013 is tiny. Yet, even down this small part of the world Elvis' CD racks are filled with Hallmark titles claiming to be Elvis' original albums, including Elvis Is Back! Poorly produced, cheap titles. And it's not just Elvis product being diluted here. Then you get the MRS products claiming to be the end all in quality, "righting wrongs" which are actually mutton dressed as lamb as far as sound quality goes.

The Venus MSG titles were not competing at retail the way some PD titles are, no bootlegs are. And the point that the antics of some of these labels, like MRS, hinder the future release of unreleased materials seems to be overlooked here, including in Bike's oh so "astute" follow up posts. I wonder if some of you would be crying a different tune if the '56 Hayride show had remained unreleased, if the various materials on Tupelo has remained hidden away. Sure, this is presented through an Elvis lens - this is an Elvis fan forum - but it's not an issue isolated to Elvis Presley vault materials.

common sense prevails

The problem is that time does not stand still and as we get further away in time from these years the music of this era will be much more difficult to obtain and therefore hear, particularly amongst the performers who are not super stars. Worthwhile music was made after 1962 and a lot of it is going to wind up languishing in a vault somewhere.

Again the diluting Elvis' legacy argument is pure unadulterated nonsense. For years RCA/BMG/Sony etc have been at work doing just what you claim the PD labels do. And for the record most Hallmark albums are not PD but consists of material licensed by the original label.

And there's not also a ton of sense out there with the recordings not being released argument. Again, the biggest stopper in a record not being released is the initial record company. It took RCA/BMG over 20 years to start a collector's label which was established because of bootlegs. They just sat on all those recordings for 20 years. When fans offered them outtakes they were told they weren't what Elvis fans wanted to hear. They only release anything like this when their hand is forced. And again, Sony does not have access to all the Elvis material out there. Their stubborness could easily cause Elvis tracks to go unreleased and most probably has.

Let's also remember how many of those initial bootlegs came out. RCA chucked out the tapes. They weren't stolen. They were tossed out. And that's ignoring the '50s tapes that were tossed out a decade and a half earlier. Yes our corporate heroes are such great stewards of our popular culture.

And let's get real on sound quality. Most of the time what we're talking about is not "Hearts of Stone" scratchy barely audible songs. What we're talking about is songs that fall short of top of the line digital standards. For most people, failing to meet those standards, particularly on a historical recording, is not any great shortfall. Presentable sound is enough.

Last edited by likethebike on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

As for Matthew's argument - once again this is waged solely around Elvis releases, and could just as easily be waged against Venus, for example, who released the MSG material just a matter of months before Sony announced their own product. And yet nobody seems to give a damn about bootlegs screwing FTD, just one relatively small, not very prolific PD company.

The comparison of bootleg companies to some of these PD labels is kinda on target but not in the way presented. The availability, quantities, distribution, and accessibility of bootlegs in 2013 is tiny. Yet, even down this small part of the world Elvis' CD racks are filled with Hallmark titles claiming to be Elvis' original albums, including Elvis Is Back! Poorly produced, cheap titles. And it's not just Elvis product being diluted here. Then you get the MRS products claiming to be the end all in quality, "righting wrongs" which are actually mutton dressed as lamb as far as sound quality goes.

The Venus MSG titles were not competing at retail the way some PD titles are, no bootlegs are. And the point that the antics of some of these labels, like MRS, hinder the future release of unreleased materials seems to be overlooked here, including in Bike's oh so "astute" follow up posts. I wonder if some of you would be crying a different tune if the '56 Hayride show had remained unreleased, if the various materials on Tupelo has remained hidden away. Sure, this is presented through an Elvis lens - this is an Elvis fan forum - but it's not an issue isolated to Elvis Presley vault materials.

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up. MRS is ONE company. And one, wheter we like it or not, that has filled holes in the market (the 1956 live shows, the Hawaii show) of material not available and, following YMWTBB there is little sign that the 1956 live shows would be released again. As for the bootlegs, yes, I see your point, but that doesn't mean that, just because very few people get to buy them or see them, that they are any more right in what they are doing than MRS.

Yes, the Hallmark-type issues are unfortunate, but those shelves are also full of crappy collections from Sony that often not in the best available quality either. MRS may or may not be great quality - I have no idea, I don't own any. And frankly I don't care because I can see the bigger picture. Away from The Beatles, Elvis and Cliff Richard (and maybe a dozen more), the PD releases are an absolute Godsend. They provide us with music we would never hear again without them. And waying up that pro against the hallmark-style cons, I'll go with the existence of PD time and time and time again. I have given numerous examples of PD companies that do sterling work.

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

the PD releases are an absolute Godsend.

the most hilarious comment I have ever heard on this forum

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

that`s right present your argument with a dream sequence

the PD releases are an absolute Godsend.

the most hilarious comment I have ever heard on this forum

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

that`s right present your argument with a dream sequence

my point was simply that people want not what;s right or wrong in these scenarios, but what suits them best.

Whar is your point, Angeline? What are your thoughts on other artists and the music created by them we will never hear again?

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up. MRS is ONE company. And one, wheter we like it or not, that has filled holes in the market (the 1956 live shows, the Hawaii show) of material not available and, following YMWTBB there is little sign that the 1956 live shows would be released again. As for the bootlegs, yes, I see your point, but that doesn't mean that, just because very few people get to buy them or see them, that they are any more right in what they are doing than MRS.

Yes, the Hallmark-type issues are unfortunate, but those shelves are also full of crappy collections from Sony that often not in the best available quality either. MRS may or may not be great quality - I have no idea, I don't own any. And frankly I don't care because I can see the bigger picture. Away from The Beatles, Elvis and Cliff Richard (and maybe a dozen more), the PD releases are an absolute Godsend. They provide us with music we would never hear again without them. And waying up that pro against the hallmark-style cons, I'll go with the existence of PD time and time and time again. I have given numerous examples of PD companies that do sterling work.

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

I'm not sure I understand how MRS has "filled holes in the market" by blatantly copying material that has already been released? The '56 live shows and the '61 Hawaii show have been made available by RCA/BMG/Sony... I own them along with millions of other fans. I don't have any issue with bootleggers but MRS presenting themselves and their product as legitimate is crazy. They're knock-off artists, plain and simple. I believe in free enterprise but I'm not a fan of all of the MRS releases. I would say the bootleggers are the ones that have filled holes in the market with previously unavailable material. Also, I can't see how it would be possible for a public domain company to sell previously unreleased film from Elvis on Tour? How would it be acquired?

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up.

Sure it does. The unfortunate behaviour of PD companies like MRS put at risk the future of putting out unreleased content from the PD period. To put out a CD one needs an audio source, if the only audio source is a future Sony/FTD CD release, and they decide not to bother then there is nothing for a PD label to steel from. I am glad the Hayride show finally saw the light of day - but it might not have happened at all. The same goes for the unreleased Tupelo material.

As for the bootlegs, yes, I see your point, but that doesn't mean that, just because very few people get to buy them or see them, that they are any more right in what they are doing than MRS.

I never suggested they were - but the tired notion of drawing parallels between bootlegs and MRS is pointless. Bootlegs of competing audio material have little impact on consumer purchasing at retail.

Yes, the Hallmark-type issues are unfortunate, but those shelves are also full of crappy collections from Sony that often not in the best available quality either.

The music is Sony's property to release how they please, whether we like the various compilations or not.

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

But sourced from what? It's not like a PD company could just waltz into the Warner vault and get the source elements to put out a Blu-Ray. Besides, Warner wanted to go with Johnny B. Goode - they just didn't bother enough to get the clearance on it. The movie can be downloaded in DVD quality, JBG intact from iTunes - so it IS out there, just not in a preferred format.

PD companies may on the whole provide a convenience, but as far as audio quality goes in many cases it's probably better seeking out the original old format releases and making your own transfers.

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up.

Sure it does. The unfortunate behaviour of PD companies like MRS put at risk the future of putting out unreleased content from the PD period. To put out a CD one needs an audio source, if the only audio source is a future Sony/FTD CD release, and they decide not to bother then there is nothing for a PD label to steel from. I am glad the Hayride show finally saw the light of day - but it might not have happened at all. The same goes for the unreleased Tupelo material.

As for the bootlegs, yes, I see your point, but that doesn't mean that, just because very few people get to buy them or see them, that they are any more right in what they are doing than MRS.

I never suggested they were - but the tired notion of drawing parallels between bootlegs and MRS is pointless. Bootlegs of competing audio material have little impact on consumer purchasing at retail.

Yes, the Hallmark-type issues are unfortunate, but those shelves are also full of crappy collections from Sony that often not in the best available quality either.

The music is Sony's property to release how they please, whether we like the various compilations or not.

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

But sourced from what? It's not like a PD company could just waltz into the Warner vault and get the source elements to put out a Blu-Ray. Besides, Warner wanted to go with Johnny B. Goode - they just didn't bother enough to get the clearance on it. The movie can be downloaded in DVD quality, JBG intact from iTunes - so it IS out there, just not in a preferred format.

PD companies may on the whole provide a convenience, but as far as audio quality goes in many cases it's probably better seeking out the original old format releases and making your own transfers.

My point, Matthew, with EOT is that if that did happen, then the PD releases would be the best thing since sliced bread. As it happens, many PD companies release material which sounds far better than it ever has anywhere else - if anywhere else has released it at all! Yes, that would be difficult with film, but that's not really the point. It was simply an example. There are many hundreds of PD releases that have done stellar work on old recordings and released them in far better sound than ever before. Avid is an obvious example with their jazz releases, but the big boxed set from france I mentioned earlier is similar, as are some of the boxes issued by Documents - materials taken from the surviving 78rpm sources, repaired and remastered, and they sound gorgeous. Their ten disc box of European jazz is a key example of this - a box ful of material not available elsewhere and in stellar sound. No, this isn't a jazz forum, but the same can be said for similar country, folk, blues, rockabilly and classical sets. As a jazz collector, there is a huge amount of jazz history that would have vanished without trace without these wonderful releases.

But once again, you are concentrating purely on Presley and Presley-like performers and refusing to extend the scope of what this argument is all about. Exactly the same is happening in film, and thousands of films are being lost forever because of it. And no-one gives a damn.

As for elvis-fan's comments about the 1956 and 1961 concerts being available elsewhere - they were deleted over ten years ago. Yes, they are available second-hand, but not particularly cheaply and Sony seemingly have no interest in re-releasing them. On one hand the board bemoans the fact there are few young fans, and on the other some of the most important historical performances aren't available and no-one cares because they have them already . The selfishness of such an argument is both sad and, even more sadly, common on these boards, and I find is abhorrent. The "I've got what I want so nothing else matters" argument is not one that does anyone any favours on here.

I've said my piece, we can around the blocks on this but I am happy this is finally happening.

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up.

Sure it does. The unfortunate behaviour of PD companies like MRS put at risk the future of putting out unreleased content from the PD period. To put out a CD one needs an audio source, if the only audio source is a future Sony/FTD CD release, and they decide not to bother then there is nothing for a PD label to steel from. I am glad the Hayride show finally saw the light of day - but it might not have happened at all. The same goes for the unreleased Tupelo material.

As for the bootlegs, yes, I see your point, but that doesn't mean that, just because very few people get to buy them or see them, that they are any more right in what they are doing than MRS.

I never suggested they were - but the tired notion of drawing parallels between bootlegs and MRS is pointless. Bootlegs of competing audio material have little impact on consumer purchasing at retail.

Yes, the Hallmark-type issues are unfortunate, but those shelves are also full of crappy collections from Sony that often not in the best available quality either.

The music is Sony's property to release how they please, whether we like the various compilations or not.

And I tell you one other thing: if Elvis on Tour came out of copyright tomorrow and was released in sparkling quality on DVD with the original opening by a PD company, this argument against PD releases would be completely turned on its head by almost everyone in this forum.

But sourced from what? It's not like a PD company could just waltz into the Warner vault and get the source elements to put out a Blu-Ray. Besides, Warner wanted to go with Johnny B. Goode - they just didn't bother enough to get the clearance on it. The movie can be downloaded in DVD quality, JBG intact from iTunes - so it IS out there, just not in a preferred format.

PD companies may on the whole provide a convenience, but as far as audio quality goes in many cases it's probably better seeking out the original old format releases and making your own transfers.

Matthew, your thoughts echo mine. Thank you for posting them. It's great news the law has been amended.

It's great news the law has been amended.

absolutely!!!

It's great news the law has been amended.

absolutely!!!

Thank you for posting the news.

No it doesn´t, the recordings prior to 1963 will be released over and over again. Actually I don´t mind at all because it leads to more exposure for those recordings of the golden age of Rock & Roll which otherwise was likely to shift to 60's music. This might create new interest in Rock & Roll. Nowadays one can buy a lot of nice Cd´s in mainstream department stores. I´m not talking about Elvis but I think of the releases like the label releases as done by One Day Music.

again let me break this down for the uneducated;

elvis recordings from 1963 onwards (that means forward) as well as others will not see PD until 2033...but yes the prior 1963 recordings stay as they are!!! Which is just my point here YOUR STILL GETTING AN ABUNDANCE OF RECORDINGS SPANNING THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF MUSIC UP UNTIL 1963 SO WHY COMPLAIN SO MUCH, some people really need to get a life

Can you read? Please show me where I complain.

The comparison of bootleg companies to some of these PD labels is kinda on target but not in the way presented. The availability, quantities, distribution, and accessibility of bootlegs in 2013 is tiny. Yet, even down this small part of the world Elvis' CD racks are filled with Hallmark titles claiming to be Elvis' original albums, including Elvis Is Back! Poorly produced, cheap titles. And it's not just Elvis product being diluted here. Then you get the MRS products claiming to be the end all in quality, "righting wrongs" which are actually mutton dressed as lamb as far as sound quality goes.

The Venus MSG titles were not competing at retail the way some PD titles are, no bootlegs are. And the point that the antics of some of these labels, like MRS, hinder the future release of unreleased materials seems to be overlooked here, including in Bike's oh so "astute" follow up posts. I wonder if some of you would be crying a different tune if the '56 Hayride show had remained unreleased, if the various materials on Tupelo has remained hidden away. Sure, this is presented through an Elvis lens - this is an Elvis fan forum - but it's not an issue isolated to Elvis Presley vault materials.

common sense prevails

Hardly, as pointed out by Matthew he has one agenda, as Doc's little puppet, and a major grudge against MRS, not PD releases, where have the Doc or Matthew companied about any other PD company?

This is just a an excuse to bitch against a company/individual that has done more for Elvis fans than these two gofers put together, the Doc a few liner notes on a few bootleg labels (bid deal), and king or queen depending on how you look at it of an insignificant message board? Not forgetting the wonderful Matthew, Mr. Up him self, and like the Doc fails to answer anyone’s post fully only picking on sentences that suit, and not addressing the whole point.
On those grounds as it’s in the words of the Doc & co. “A Hidden Agenda” nothing more and it is blatant, but you really need to get a life.

MRS is reading these posts and laughing his head off at your drivel, one minute damaging Elvis Legacy, but once a new release is announced your straight in here stating it will be lucky if they can sell a few hundred, or as mentioned in an earlier post as many as a bootleg release?
Make your mind up MRS is either a company that can only sell a product in the same numbers as a bootleg company, or its a successful PD company?

Funny once the laws changed MRS seem to be the later in your eyes. But from the grapevine I doubt it will be the end of MRS, so you will still have your chance to bitch on about it.. oh happy day.

There is no agenda, just perspective - try it sometime Shep.

But, Matthew, your points don't hold up.

Sure it does. The unfortunate behaviour of PD companies like MRS put at risk the future of putting out unreleased content from the PD period. To put out a CD one needs an audio source, if the only audio source is a future Sony/FTD CD release, and they decide not to bother then there is nothing for a PD label to steel from. I am glad the Hayride show finally saw the light of day - but it might not have happened at all. The same goes for the unreleased Tupelo material.

Please pick a position. Either a little grey market label makes an impact on the behavior of big corporations or it doesn't.

What never gets discussed in this context is that we could have had some of this material years ago if RCA/BMG/Sony were not the only game in town. Sony is not the only source of tapes. There's probably still stuff that sits unreleased because of the monopoly the record labels have on their material.

The differentation between bootlegs and the PD releases is deranged. The only difference between the bootlegging "heroes" and the PD scoundrels is that the PD releases are legal.

Buddy Holly- The argument is that songs from 1963 and the '60s in general are very old now. And with the exception of stupendous hits by super artists, most of the music from the era will lag in the vaults never gaining the exposure that a lot of it is deserved.

All this hullaballoo about sound is just a scam to justify an anti-pd position. Elvis' 1950s recordings were issued in truly horrible reprocessed stereo. People still loved them. The point is getting people to listen in the first place.

Just perspective - yes but on one company??? SAD