Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:52 am
Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:35 pm
Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:56 am
Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:46 am
drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point.
drjohncarpenter wrote:Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:11 am
Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:20 am
drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:36 am
dhornjr1 wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
In those monologues, he always says, "People were going 'Is he. Is he?' And I was going 'Am I? Am I?'"
I have always taken that to mean people were wondering "Is he black?". Is that the general consensus?
Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:12 am
rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
In those monologues, he always says, "People were going 'Is he. Is he?' And I was going 'Am I? Am I?'"
I have always taken that to mean people were wondering "Is he black?". Is that the general consensus?
Yes. I've never heard it interpreted ANY other way, by anyone.
rjm
Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:56 am
dhornjr1 wrote:rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
In those monologues, he always says, "People were going 'Is he. Is he?' And I was going 'Am I? Am I?'"
I have always taken that to mean people were wondering "Is he black?". Is that the general consensus?
Yes. I've never heard it interpreted ANY other way, by anyone.
rjm
You know, you hear these stories about Elvis attending the Mid-South Fair on "Colored Night" and frequenting Beale Street and going to black churches. He was crossing the color line and doing things that could get him arrested in the South. It's amazing how he has been turned into a racist over the years.
Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:34 am
rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
In those monologues, he always says, "People were going 'Is he. Is he?' And I was going 'Am I? Am I?'"
I have always taken that to mean people were wondering "Is he black?". Is that the general consensus?
Yes. I've never heard it interpreted ANY other way, by anyone.
rjm
You know, you hear these stories about Elvis attending the Mid-South Fair on "Colored Night" and frequenting Beale Street and going to black churches. He was crossing the color line and doing things that could get him arrested in the South. It's amazing how he has been turned into a racist over the years.
Yes, he did a series of things that were actually not legal at the time. He was legally "permitted" on Beale Street, and at Rev. Brewster's church, but he was NOT supposed to be in the fairgrounds on Juneteenth, 1956. (Nor was he supposed to be at the Goodwill Review at the end of '56, and '57; no other white person who was not working for the station was there, to my knowledge - certainly no performers. And he took the stage at the end of the first one, and triggered a mob scene of crazed teenage girls. Black girls chasing after a white boy. A very weird inversion of southern mores.) And in 1960, after attending the Holiday On Ice's "normal" shows (the ones for whites), he also went on the night that was not for whites. Did he keep a low profile? It seems, on that night, he climbed up on the conductor's tower, and in front of a large audience of all-black Memphians, briefly conducted the orchestra. This happened just at the outset of the sit-ins, which began in Tennessee. (Over on the other side of the state.)
There are photos from the fairgrounds "incident." Elvis took a photographer with him that night. Remember, it was "colored night." Not day. From the photos, Elvis got into the park not long before sundown, and decided to try to stay. He lived in Memphis long enough to know what "Tuesday night" meant for Fairgrounds attendance. And it was June 19th, the most important celebration on the African-American calendar. It was a night to party! (A shame it's been overtaken by "Kwanzaa" - a "new" holiday invented by a Cal St. Long Beach professor in 1966.) He was apparently run off, judging by the photograph. The black people were made to stand back behind either a cop or a guard, and Elvis has a terrified expression on his face, as he looks for where to run. Apparently, someone noticed his lack of melanin, and called out an alert. The people have this stunned, bewildered expression on their faces - as though they were all thinking "what does that crazy white boy think he's doing?" When he got home, he had the photographer still with him, and he sure looks like the Cat that ate the canary, as he carries the stuffed animal he won. Totally pleased with himself.
And this is maybe WHY he got "turned into a racist." The magazine that published that totally unsubstantiated "rumor" - which they claimed they "heard" on Beale St. from some anonymous person was the white-owned Sepia. Elvis interview with the much more influential Jet, in attempt to set the record straight, probably only amplified it. (He also sent out an "open telegram" regarding this and other rumors that started swirling around him, none of which were true. "God created everybody equal." White southerners were NOT supposed to say such things in 1957! That's about the "worst" thing you could say in those days: "God created everybody equal." Where did he ever get such an idea? That was an extreme statement at the time, although it seems like nothing today.) And after his death, the rumor really got legs.
And there's more, actually, dealing with the Mississippi Sovereignty Committee, which had a roster of Mississippi-born celebrity-informers, who were expected to inform on other celebrities. One of these people was Mary Ann Mobley, who often sang at their "dinners" in Los Angeles. They consisted of the White Citizen's Councils, joined together, with the support of the Mississippi power structure, including the governor. They tried to recruit Elvis, but he never got involved in any of their activities, ever. Anything else they may have tried to do -- well, it's not sourced well-enough. (There is a report of some of their people, along with Mobley, having an on-set meeting with Elvis, and warning him about who he should, and should not associate with. But, as I said, it's not sourced well enough, so it may not have happened. Go through all the books on The Colonel, and you'll find it. It's not in Nash. There are two other books.) Their actual files, recently liberated, are heavily redacted. One odd thing they kept trying to do was find a very young actor named Eddie Hodges. They never could contact him. He was in LALLAL - the delivery boy.
So, it's not hard to see how and why the rumor kept up its strength. "Divide and conquer" works very well, indeed!
rjm
Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:24 am
dhornjr1 wrote:rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:rjm wrote:dhornjr1 wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:Marcus was one of the first to make clear, even as far back as 1975's Mystery Train, that Presley's work in the 1950s was willful rather than spontaneous. Since then he has expanded on this idea, the notion that Elvis knew what he was doing. When one listens carefully to Presley's unique "life story" monologues, on stage at the International in 1969, his own words underscore Marcus' point. Did Elvis imagine in 1955-1956 he would change society and culture? No. He was, you know, just having a good time.
In those monologues, he always says, "People were going 'Is he. Is he?' And I was going 'Am I? Am I?'"
I have always taken that to mean people were wondering "Is he black?". Is that the general consensus?
Yes. I've never heard it interpreted ANY other way, by anyone.
rjm
You know, you hear these stories about Elvis attending the Mid-South Fair on "Colored Night" and frequenting Beale Street and going to black churches. He was crossing the color line and doing things that could get him arrested in the South. It's amazing how he has been turned into a racist over the years.
Yes, he did a series of things that were actually not legal at the time. He was legally "permitted" on Beale Street, and at Rev. Brewster's church, but he was NOT supposed to be in the fairgrounds on Juneteenth, 1956. (Nor was he supposed to be at the Goodwill Review at the end of '56, and '57; no other white person who was not working for the station was there, to my knowledge - certainly no performers. And he took the stage at the end of the first one, and triggered a mob scene of crazed teenage girls. Black girls chasing after a white boy. A very weird inversion of southern mores.) And in 1960, after attending the Holiday On Ice's "normal" shows (the ones for whites), he also went on the night that was not for whites. Did he keep a low profile? It seems, on that night, he climbed up on the conductor's tower, and in front of a large audience of all-black Memphians, briefly conducted the orchestra. This happened just at the outset of the sit-ins, which began in Tennessee. (Over on the other side of the state.)
There are photos from the fairgrounds "incident." Elvis took a photographer with him that night. Remember, it was "colored night." Not day. From the photos, Elvis got into the park not long before sundown, and decided to try to stay. He lived in Memphis long enough to know what "Tuesday night" meant for Fairgrounds attendance. And it was June 19th, the most important celebration on the African-American calendar. It was a night to party! (A shame it's been overtaken by "Kwanzaa" - a "new" holiday invented by a Cal St. Long Beach professor in 1966.) He was apparently run off, judging by the photograph. The black people were made to stand back behind either a cop or a guard, and Elvis has a terrified expression on his face, as he looks for where to run. Apparently, someone noticed his lack of melanin, and called out an alert. The people have this stunned, bewildered expression on their faces - as though they were all thinking "what does that crazy white boy think he's doing?" When he got home, he had the photographer still with him, and he sure looks like the Cat that ate the canary, as he carries the stuffed animal he won. Totally pleased with himself.
And this is maybe WHY he got "turned into a racist." The magazine that published that totally unsubstantiated "rumor" - which they claimed they "heard" on Beale St. from some anonymous person was the white-owned Sepia. Elvis interview with the much more influential Jet, in attempt to set the record straight, probably only amplified it. (He also sent out an "open telegram" regarding this and other rumors that started swirling around him, none of which were true. "God created everybody equal." White southerners were NOT supposed to say such things in 1957! That's about the "worst" thing you could say in those days: "God created everybody equal." Where did he ever get such an idea? That was an extreme statement at the time, although it seems like nothing today.) And after his death, the rumor really got legs.
And there's more, actually, dealing with the Mississippi Sovereignty Committee, which had a roster of Mississippi-born celebrity-informers, who were expected to inform on other celebrities. One of these people was Mary Ann Mobley, who often sang at their "dinners" in Los Angeles. They consisted of the White Citizen's Councils, joined together, with the support of the Mississippi power structure, including the governor. They tried to recruit Elvis, but he never got involved in any of their activities, ever. Anything else they may have tried to do -- well, it's not sourced well-enough. (There is a report of some of their people, along with Mobley, having an on-set meeting with Elvis, and warning him about who he should, and should not associate with. But, as I said, it's not sourced well enough, so it may not have happened. Go through all the books on The Colonel, and you'll find it. It's not in Nash. There are two other books.) Their actual files, recently liberated, are heavily redacted. One odd thing they kept trying to do was find a very young actor named Eddie Hodges. They never could contact him. He was in LALLAL - the delivery boy.
So, it's not hard to see how and why the rumor kept up its strength. "Divide and conquer" works very well, indeed!
rjm
That's good stuff. I'd like to see those pictures.
I had no idea Mary Ann Mobley was a part of that crap. That's unfortunate.
Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:15 pm
Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:19 pm
Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:17 am
rjm wrote:He was apparently run off, judging by the photograph. The black people were made to stand back behind either a cop or a guard, and Elvis has a terrified expression on his face, as he looks for where to run. Apparently, someone noticed his lack of melanin, and called out an alert. The people have this stunned, bewildered expression on their faces - as though they were all thinking "what does that crazy white boy think he's doing?"
Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:38 am
Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:56 am
HoneyTalkNelson wrote:Bingo!
He's throwing a ball to knock over bottles (or something) and people are watching.
The analogy of Elvis running from a crowd is absurd. You WERE joking, right?
Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:11 pm
TJ wrote:rjm wrote:He was apparently run off, judging by the photograph. The black people were made to stand back behind either a cop or a guard, and Elvis has a terrified expression on his face, as he looks for where to run. Apparently, someone noticed his lack of melanin, and called out an alert. The people have this stunned, bewildered expression on their faces - as though they were all thinking "what does that crazy white boy think he's doing?"
You could be reading too much into the photo. Does he really look terrified? Is he running? Or does he have a ball in his left hand and maybe has just thrown another as part of a fairground game? Are the onlookers stunned or are those who aren't looking at the camera simply looking past Elvis to see whether he hits the objects he is aiming at?
Juneteenth
Juneteenth, also known as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day, is a holiday in the United States honoring African American heritage by commemorating the announcement of the abolition of slavery in the U.S. State of Texas in 1865. Celebrated on June 19, the term is a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, and is recognized as a state holiday in 37 states of the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth
Juneteenth Celebration | The History of the Juneteenth Celebration
Perhaps the three most significant documents in U.S. history that exemplify America’s passion for freedom are the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Emancipation Proclamation. Although each has maintained its rightful place in the annals of American history, only the Bill of Rights and the Constitution have identifiable dates and cultural festivities. Each year, America celebrates the Fourth of July, Constitution Day and Flag Day, all of which have developed into an expression and ceremony of appreciation by the American People with special events emphasizing the historical importance of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The Emancipation Proclamation, which is particularly significant to African Americans, has not until recently received its rightful day of national appreciation. With the resurgence of the African American community’s celebration of Juneteenth, America is growing in its awareness and appreciation of this highly meaningful document.
The celebration of Juneteenth is not only a showcase event of the African American community’s positive contributions to the American way of life, but it also makes a statement for all Americans that the United States is truly the “Land of the Free.” Juneteenth is an expression and extension of American freedom and, like the Fourth of July, a time for all Americans to celebrate our independence, human rights, civil rights and freedom.
http://juneteenth.azurewebsites.net/?p=81
Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:31 pm
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:44 am
promiseland wrote:Elvis does appear to have a ball in his left hand, and looks to be throwing with his right as everyone seems to be looking in the same direction as Elvis.
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:56 am
promiseland wrote:Elvis does appear to have a ball in his left hand, and looks to be throwing with his right as everyone seems to be looking in the same direction as Elvis.
Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:55 pm
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