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Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:07 pm

I'm fine with both statements I made. Happy New Year!

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:58 pm

Another topic gone down the drain with no real useful information or learning. Just members arguing with members. Hate when that happens.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:14 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972.


September 1972? No. November 1972? Possibly.

You've stated your strong opinion on this before and I just adamantly disagree. There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily and there's more to his demeanor in September 1972 than tiredness. He wasn't right.


You diminish your stance with a statement like that. There are many examples in 1972 of Elvis' behavior being far from such a state. And my view regarding the September 1972 "Aloha" announcement is based on fact, not conjecture.


Just curious Doc, what is 'the' fact you refer to? thanks

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:54 pm

And also in November 1972 20 press conference it's clear he was tired after an exhausting tour. And also he is a few pounds heavier than in September, so Marty Pasetta told him he was too fat for the Aloha show. After that he begin to lose weight.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:02 pm

Tony Trout wrote:
dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.



So Donnie is the one that Sonny is referring to in the GMA press conference the morning following Elvis's death?


That is my understanding. Some people say that it was Tim Baty.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:09 pm

Jokerlola wrote:
dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.


I've never heard he used powder cocaine. Do you have a source? We've heard he was using liquid medical cocaine for a little while, soaking cotton balls and putting them in his nose. I thought the Red kicking in the door incident had to do with Demerol?


Revelations From The Memphis Mafia pg. 635

Lamar Fike: About '75, when he got into really high-grade dope, he entered his third and final stage of drug use. That was cocaine, Dilaudid, and morphine, in addition to the Demerol and codeine he was already doing. That's when it became very, very serious.

With the cocaine, we did regular dust, Peruvian gold flake. Elvis wasn't all that crazy about it.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:31 pm

seaward wrote:Another topic gone down the drain with no real useful information or learning. Just members arguing with members. Hate when that happens.


Debate is healthy and expected in any forum of seasoned members. This topic, despite some rancor, contains a great deal of worthwhile information.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:52 pm

debtd1 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972.


September 1972? No. November 1972? Possibly.

You've stated your strong opinion on this before and I just adamantly disagree. There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily and there's more to his demeanor in September 1972 than tiredness. He wasn't right.


You diminish your stance with a statement like that. There are many examples in 1972 of Elvis' behavior being far from such a state. And my view regarding the September 1972 "Aloha" announcement is based on fact, not conjecture.


Just curious Doc, what is 'the' fact you refer to? thanks



I'm wondering the same thing. In both PC's, Elvis sounds sluggish/slurring his words (dead giveaway of sleeping pills). I'll admit, I can watch the September press conference a little better than the November 20, 1972, Honolulu, HI press conferece. That latter one is just painful to watch.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:00 pm

debtd1 wrote:Just curious Doc, what is 'the' fact you refer to? thanks


Elvis' "Aloha" press announcement at the Hilton was set up between dinner and midnight shows on September 4, 1972. The event was ill-timed. The period after a Presley dinner show was usually set aside for him to recuperate, to chill out, and he should not have been expected to handle an additional public event. Management could -- and should -- have chosen a more appropriate date.


720904_Aloha press announcement_Las Vegas.JPG


Here is Elvis' schedule the last three days of the Vegas engagement:

September 2, 1972 DS
September 2, 1972 MS
September 2, 1972 3AM
September 3, 1972 DS
September 3, 1972 MS
September 4, 1972 DS
"Aloha" Announcement
September 4, 1972 MS

That means Elvis hit SIX shows in barely two days before the "Aloha" fun-fest.

Confirming the scheduling, see the 2004 "Aloha" deluxe DVD photo gallery:

040622_Aloha Deluxe DVD_Bonus.JPG

Note: RCA President Rocco Laginestra asked the questions. It was the formal announcement of the "Aloha" broadcast.

---

To sum, it is a fact that at the "Aloha" press announcement Elvis was very likely exhausted, doing this PR after having done 6 shows in the previous 50 hours.
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Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:17 pm

seaward wrote:Another topic gone down the drain with no real useful information or learning. Just members arguing with members. Hate when that happens.

What do you hope can be learned with any certainty. All we can do is discuss all the different things we've all read in nebulous tell all books and give our opinions based on that and what our intuition tells us about what we see and hear on Elvis' work. Listening to studio chatter on FTD's and watching "import" videos has given us insight into some of these things we didn't have during his lifetime. I also can look at Elvis without the rose colored glasses I used to wear.

If you expected rock solid, unassailable answers on a topic like this, you were bound to be disappointed.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:22 pm

Lamar said many things differently in all these years. I doubt him as a 100% credible witness. Third stage of drug use? Alanna Nash use the same term in the Colonel's book, but it's just a speculation, like the Coke use. To me what he did with Goldman (being a key source forthe first book) and after that denying and sad Albert Goldman made another story it's enough.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:37 pm

Jokerlola wrote:
dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.


I've never heard he used powder cocaine. Do you have a source? We've heard he was using liquid medical cocaine for a little while, soaking cotton balls and putting them in his nose. I thought the Red kicking in the door incident had to do with Demerol?

Let me just say, after having a couple of injuries that required heavy pain killers, it's very easy to get addicted and it really has nothing to do with will. Every body is always saying that it was ultimately Elvis's fault and his responsibility to quit. Truth is, it was really the fault of the doctors who were handing this stuff out without any concern about whether Elvis could get or was currently addicted and didn't even try to find out if he was getting stuff from other doctors. Dr. Nick should have contacted all the other doctors and dentists and threatened them with reporting if they prescribed any more to Elvis. But they all wanted their money and the thrill of being close to fame. Because of this, Elvis didn't have a chance.


Another thing that people rarely talk about is that Elvis really never was able to cope with the level of fame he had achieved and he self medicated to try to cope with it. When people think you can walk on water and they save your sweat and a piece of lint from your face you can go one of two ways; You can become a megalomaniac and try to take over the world or you can destroy yourself with self doubt. Either way, it doesn't end well.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:54 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
debtd1 wrote:Just curious Doc, what is 'the' fact you refer to? thanks


Elvis' "Aloha" press announcement at the Hilton was set up between dinner and midnight shows on September 4, 1972. The event was ill-timed. The period after a Presley dinner show was usually set aside for him to recuperate, to chill out, and he should not have been expected to handle an additional public event. Management could -- and should -- have chosen a more appropriate date.


720904_Aloha press announcement_Las Vegas.JPG


Here is Elvis' schedule the last three days of the Vegas engagement:

September 2, 1972 DS
September 2, 1972 MS
September 2, 1972 3AM
September 3, 1972 DS
September 3, 1972 MS
September 4, 1972 DS
"Aloha" Announcement
September 4, 1972 MS

That means Elvis hit SIX shows in barely two days before the "Aloha" fun-fest.

Confirming the scheduling, see the 2004 "Aloha" deluxe DVD photo gallery:

040622_Aloha Deluxe DVD_Bonus.JPG

Note: RCA President Rocco Laginestra asked the questions. It was the formal announcement of the "Aloha" broadcast.

---

To sum, it is a fact that at the "Aloha" press announcement Elvis was very likely exhausted, doing this PR after having done 6 shows in the previous 50 hours.


I don't mean to sound uncaring Doc, but in reality he should have been able to do a promo slot without sounding like he was on something. I know he was in-between shows, but he hadn't done a 12 hr shift before that interview........

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:14 am

The regime of shots,of uppers before the show and downers after to bring him down are likely to have added to the exhaustion. Perhaps the world's greatest performer acting like a trained monkey for his handlers. Press conference between 2 shows- how about a no and b you're fired for asking me to do something that stupid. And what was with 3 am additional shows-helping Parker fee his gambling addiction monkey. On one hand he knew he was one of the world's biggest stars and at the same time he acted like a liitle boy to be led around. In Goldman's book he writes something like having spent years listening to half-assed ideas he reluctantly goes along to be polite- mustn't get the engagement off to a bad start. Had he been passionate about following his own instincts, the self loathing and all that it brought could have been avoided. Said differently, he should have kicked Parker to the curb and taken the risks. After all it was always him alone out there upfront.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:41 am

fn2drive wrote:The regime of shots,of uppers before the show and downers after to bring him down are likely to have added to the exhaustion. Perhaps the world's greatest performer acting like a trained monkey for his handlers. Press conference between 2 shows- how about a no and b you're fired for asking me to do something that stupid. And what was with 3 am additional shows-helping Parker fee his gambling addiction monkey. On one hand he knew he was one of the world's biggest stars and at the same time he acted like a liitle boy to be led around. In Goldman's book he writes something like having spent years listening to half-assed ideas he reluctantly goes along to be polite- mustn't get the engagement off to a bad start. Had he been passionate about following his own instincts, the self loathing and all that it brought could have been avoided. Said differently, he should have kicked Parker to the curb and taken the risks. After all it was always him alone out there upfront.


But it was a big risk (in his eyes) to potentially have to go back to being poor. Now we know that would have never happened but he didn't. He simply didn't have the confidence to take that kind of risk plus it's been rumored that Parker filled him with all kinds of stories that kept him scared and tied to him plus the fact that Parker always under paid himself so that Elvis always owed him a lot of money. Elvis knew he could sing but beyond that, he was lost.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:02 am

dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.



So Donnie is the one that Sonny is referring to in the GMA press conference the morning following Elvis's death?


That is my understanding. Some people say that it was Tim Baty.

That's right dhornjr1. Sonny West states Tim Baty in his latest book

About when the abuse really set in, maybe the slight puffiness in the early TTWII rehearsals can give us a clue. In 1971there are some noticable changes both in his appearance and in his voice. Most disturbing, his looks could change from one day to another. As for the Jaycees he looks less puffy at the dinner than at the breakfast. Not a good sign.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:05 am

debtd1 wrote:I don't mean to sound uncaring Doc, but in reality he should have been able to do a promo slot without sounding like he was on something. I know he was in-between shows, but he hadn't done a 12 hr shift before that interview........


Well, it's not about caring. The facts are that a star performing in front of 2,200 intense fans over and over again is not the same as driving a bus, and a one-month Las Vegas engagement is a grind, period. By summer 1972, management should have known Elvis would have rather done the PR for the show at another time. They didn't schedule the New York press conference that year in-between his June 9 rehearsal and opening show, they set it up before. And Elvis was quite charming indeed.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:51 am

Jokerlola wrote:When people think you can walk on water and they save your sweat and a piece of lint from your face you can go one of two ways; You can become a megalomaniac and try to take over the world or you can destroy yourself with self doubt. Either way, it doesn't end well.

Well, that's not true. There have been/are superstars that manage to deal with fame.
jurasic1968 wrote:Lamar said many things differently in all these years. I doubt him as a 100% credible witness. Third stage of drug use? Alanna Nash use the same term in the Colonel's book, but it's just a speculation, like the Coke use.

The cocaine abuse is not a speculation. Sonny West has said that he actually did see Elvis use cocaine in Vegas and Red said that he tried cocaine powder together with Elvis. Billy Smith has also confirmed that Elvis tried it, but not many times. In his book, Larry Geller wrote that Elvis showed him a bottle of liquid cocaine and soaked cotton balls in it and stuffed them up his nose.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:15 am

Ok, he tried a few times maybe but he was not abusing.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:29 pm

Even Lamar said Elvis was not that into cocaine and he was the hardest on Elvis of all the people close to him after his death.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:40 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:I don't think I diminished my stance by stating he was a heavy user in 1972.

What you said was:

"There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily ..."

And that is refuted by the facts of his life in 1972, the testimony of the people who were around him, and more.

Some people come down so hard on Elvis in 1972 but I see a lot more good than bad then from everything I have seen or heard. It was light years away from the Elvis of 1977. Watch This Is Elvis again. The Elvis footage from 1972 is amazing in his risque humor, his excellence on stage, and his perfect reading of Always On My Mind. Was this 1968 comeback Elvis...no, but this was still one of the best artists of his time performing at a very high level. Watch the My Way scene and then watch him do American Trilogy five years before. As well as he could still sing in 1977 at times (including this My Way), it is a completly different guy in 1972. There were faint warning signs of what eventually happened, but not enough not to enjoy who he still was in the early seventies. His relationship with Linda was good in the early days too and had he been where he was when she left she never would have started up with Elvis.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Xaykev wrote:
Jokerlola wrote:When people think you can walk on water and they save your sweat and a piece of lint from your face you can go one of two ways; You can become a megalomaniac and try to take over the world or you can destroy yourself with self doubt. Either way, it doesn't end well.

Well, that's not true. There have been/are superstars that manage to deal with fame.


Not really, there have been very few to have the level of fame that Elvis attained. Michael Jackson maybe and Elvis was really the first in so many ways. Later stars have learned from Elvis's mistakes and are probably not adverse to psychiatric help. But then again, look how many "superstars" get involved in drugs!

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Mike Eder wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:I don't think I diminished my stance by stating he was a heavy user in 1972.

What you said was:

"There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily ..."

And that is refuted by the facts of his life in 1972, the testimony of the people who were around him, and more.


Some people come down so hard on Elvis in 1972 ...


That's my view. In most of the footage and recordings we have of Elvis from this year, he's pretty sharp. No one is denying his problems with legally-prescribed medication, or what the future held, but in 1972 it was much more under wraps professionally, if not personally.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:04 pm

In 1972 Elvis didn't cancel any concert. The Vegas gigs were better than in 1971 and 1973. He did 3 tours with great concerts (the June maybe the best of the 70's). He worked harder in 1972 than in 1971, my opinion. Regarding Elvis' work: How can I compare my job (from 9 to 17 in the office) with 2 concerts every night without wekends?!? Elvis had to work imensely. I am not puting down any kind of job but the stress for him to perform like this was terrible.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:33 pm

fn2drive wrote:The regime of shots,of uppers before the show and downers after to bring him down are likely to have added to the exhaustion. Perhaps the world's greatest performer acting like a trained monkey for his handlers. Press conference between 2 shows-how about a no and b you're fired for asking me to do something that stupid. And what was with 3 am additional shows-helping Parker fee his gambling addiction monkey. On one hand he knew he was one of the world's biggest stars and at the same time he acted like a liitle boy to be led around. In Goldman's book he writes something like having spent years listening to half-assed ideas he reluctantly goes along to be polite- mustn't get the engagement off to a bad start. Had he been passionate about following his own instincts, the self loathing and all that it brought could have been avoided. Said differently, he should have kicked Parker to the curb and taken the risks. After all it was always him alone out there upfront.


Should have been said years ago to Parker. A lot of fans were not happy hearing about the satellite broadcast. By this time fans were not only questioning Parker's management of Elvis... doing a satellite broadcast instead of a world-tour and wearing Elvis out doing too many live performances especially in Vegas, but why doesn't Elvis let Parker go became a topic on radio stations as well.

Many fans wanted Elvis to take a 3-4 month break from doing live performances, just do a few recording sessions in Memphis then get ready for a world-tour instead of doing a satellite broadcast.

Keep in mind, this was a time calling into radio stations enabled fans to connect with other fans and expressing their opinions. I recall during this time when someone mentioned Elvis and drugs that they were not blasted by other fans for expressing their opinions about mentioning drugs. The common theme among fans was that something is just “Not Right” in Elvis' camp.

We talked about missed opportunities by Parker but how about missed opportunities by us Elvis fans? One fan called in and had an idea, "Lets' all go to Graceland showing our support to fire the Colonel!" Only a few fans called in showing support for his idea. Little did we know, that idea could have saved Elvis' life!

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