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Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:58 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Ciscoking wrote:What`s "the Clambake incident"..?


In the middle of the night Elvis fell and hit his head prior to reporting for "Clambake" in March 1967. He apparently sustained a serious concussion, and those close to him felt it was due to being out of it on downers. The setback meant production would be delayed, and a certain amount of money lost.

Management seized the event as an opportunity to rid Elvis of people who seemed detrimental to his well-being, such as Larry Geller, and to both organize and reduce the size of his retinue. Elvis agreed to every "suggestion" without a fight. Geller believed Presley was both brow-beaten and drugged. This was also the time period where the management contract was renegotiated to a 50/50 split of most gross profits -- an abomination unheard of for a major talent.

Two months later, Elvis was married at the Aladdin in Las Vegas, with everything arranged by management. Elvis had ceded control of his personal and professional life to a 57 year-old Dutchman named Tom Parker.

Weird time.



I agree, Doc. A very strange time, indeed, for our boy.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:22 pm

The balance of the photo evidence conflicts with assertion in the 15 day period he was combining Demerol and cortisone just yet. If you look at his gut it looks more like he packed on 10 pounds from the family photo shoot combined with some bad camera angles. I wouldnt pick this as the 15day period to make the call but sometime in 71 was when he could no longer get the monkey off his back for good. The Sept 1970 recording session dialogue in the outtakes is clearly a harbinger of things to come. Let's face it-he had a predisposition to addiction and depression but no matter how you slice it Vegas did him in. He just hated Vegas which magnified every one of his faults and failings. Why the greatest star in the world never called BS on it or those awful movies, we will never know. Perhaps if had the capacity to do so, he would have never become Elvis Presley. So much brilliance interspersed with so much crap.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:59 pm

Look guys....'abusing' is using without the care /supervision of a Doctor. He began this in the 50's and never....ever completely stopped (for a long period of time) and that means he was hooked. (and don't give me the he didn't use during the 68 Comeback or Aloha argument please) If he was not addicted then he could have simply stopped and never had the craving to take them again in his life.He was mentally and physically addicted. He couldn't stop taking them because for 1) they were way too easy to get and available to him, 2) he was hooked. In the 70's he got older (metabolism naturally changes), we all normally gain weight, was more depressed, not to mention the couple other medical issues he had. He would have died (probably) long before 1977 if he were not Elvis Presley and having a team of people taking care of him. I love the guy and he is my favorite entertainer but drugs will and do ruin most people in a couple of years let alone the 21 years or so he was 'abusing' them. If you are not taking them for medical reasons/illness then you are 'abusing' them and have no business self medicating yourself like he did.....eventually the body shuts down...you will die.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:31 pm

intelwild wrote:Look guys....'abusing' is using without the care /supervision of a Doctor. He began this in the 50's and never....ever completely stopped (for a long period of time) and that means he was hooked. (and don't give me the he didn't use during the 68 Comeback or Aloha argument please) If he was not addicted then he could have simply stopped and never had the craving to take them again in his life.He was mentally and physically addicted. He couldn't stop taking them because for 1) they were way too easy to get and available to him, 2) he was hooked. In the 70's he got older (metabolism naturally changes), we all normally gain weight, was more depressed, not to mention the couple other medical issues he had. He would have died (probably) long before 1977 if he were not Elvis Presley and having a team of people taking care of him. I love the guy and he is my favorite entertainer but drugs will and do ruin most people in a couple of years let alone the 21 years or so he was 'abusing' them. If you are not taking them for medical reasons/illness then you are 'abusing' them and have no business self medicating yourself like he did.....eventually the body shuts down...you will die.


Good post.

It's often said that no matter the truth, people see what they want to see.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:42 pm

I think it's easy to judge in hinesight. Addiction is a very complicated disease and has little to do with will power or the ability to make the right decisions. It took a lot of years of drug (ab)use for the drugs to take over Elvis' wonderful personality. That just shows us how big a person he was. For me it's hard to see whether Elvis was on drugs or just tired. Look at the Hy Gardner talk show, is he tired or drugged? Same can be said for the dance party in 56 or the Aloha announcement in september of 72. During the Aloha show Elvis has trouble talking, yet people say he was completely clean.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:14 pm

He was tired many times, including also not only the september 4 1972 conference, but also the november 1972 anouncement. In september he was tired after a month long engagement in Vegas, in november the same after an exhausting tour. Comparing with June 10 NY press conference: here he is happy, in good form and energetic after a vacation in Hawaii. This is the explanation. The drug use is exagerated a lot. Even Peter Guralnick asked Scotty Moore a lot of times about that and Scotty told he never saw Elvis took a pill. The only time Elvis offered him an amphetamine was one night in April 1960 recording session.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:00 am

Since neither of us was present you are entitled to your view of tired. I would say stoned. Until too far gone, most junkies can keep it under control when needed ala MSG press conference. June 72 marked the end of the beginning and the long slide into oblivion began after NY and likely cemented in the Vegas August 72 period. Sure some good moments lay ahead but By then Elvis was a hard core addict and drugs ruled his life. And no his drug usage hasn't been exaggerated. After almost 40 years many still remain in denial about the extent to which he was a junkie. Had it been more widely reported and fans not seeing him through rose colored glasses during his lifetime, perhaps he could have been saved.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:46 am

fn2drive wrote:Since neither of us was present you are entitled to your view of tired. I would say stoned. Until too far gone, most junkies can keep it under control when needed ala MSG press conference. June 72 marked the end of the beginning and the long slide into oblivion began after NY and likely cemented in the Vegas August 72 period. Sure some good moments lay ahead but By then Elvis was a hard core addict and drugs ruled his life. And no his drug usage hasn't been exaggerated. After almost 40 years many still remain in denial about the extent to which he was a junkie. Had it been more widely reported and fans not seeing him through rose colored glasses during his lifetime, perhaps he could have been saved.


Like you sad, none of us was there. And your words that Elvis was a hardcore drugaddict and the drugs ruled his life are too much. To me in both september and november 1972 press conferences I saw a man just tired after very good but exausting concerts.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:49 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Below is a shot from the dinner held later that day, set up by Elvis, at the Four Flames restaurant.

710116_dinner at Four Flames_Memphis.JPG

Elvis at the Four Flames Restaurant, 1085 Popular Avenue, Memphis - Saturday, January 16, 1971

Scroll down to The Four Flames and see another photo of Elvis there >> http://historic-memphis.com/memphis-his ... rants.html
...............................................................................................Click on photo for enlargement

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:15 am

i was just saying that I can´t judge whether Elvis was stoned or tired. I didn´t say I don´t think he used drugs.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:04 am

Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:00 pm

Wasn't everybody high on cocaïne in the 70/80s?

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:10 pm

Not Elvis

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:49 pm

dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.



So Donnie is the one that Sonny is referring to in the GMA press conference the morning following Elvis's death?

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:49 pm

He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972. He was affected by drugs too. What amazes me here is when someone posts what he was on, such as saying "He just started using Demerol or mixed it with something else." I know he used drugs but I sure don't know what he used on what day.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:00 pm

dhornjr1 wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:"Use of cocaine has not been widely documented but i also believe he became addicted to that in the 71 timeframe which explains in part his grandiosity".

What are your source to say that? The grandiosity explained by cocaine?????? Look: any objectice fan knows that Elvis used and later abused drugs. But your statement looks like a tabloid speculation



Nearly all of the MM have said that Elvis tried liquid cocaine in the mid to late 1970s but....we'll never know.


He was using powder cocaine as well. He was getting it from Donnie Sumner, among others. Sumner was the guy who had his door kicked in and toe broken by Red West.


I've never heard he used powder cocaine. Do you have a source? We've heard he was using liquid medical cocaine for a little while, soaking cotton balls and putting them in his nose. I thought the Red kicking in the door incident had to do with Demerol?

Let me just say, after having a couple of injuries that required heavy pain killers, it's very easy to get addicted and it really has nothing to do with will. Every body is always saying that it was ultimately Elvis's fault and his responsibility to quit. Truth is, it was really the fault of the doctors who were handing this stuff out without any concern about whether Elvis could get or was currently addicted and didn't even try to find out if he was getting stuff from other doctors. Dr. Nick should have contacted all the other doctors and dentists and threatened them with reporting if they prescribed any more to Elvis. But they all wanted their money and the thrill of being close to fame. Because of this, Elvis didn't have a chance.
Last edited by Jokerlola on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:09 pm

stevelecher wrote:He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972.


September 1972? No. November 1972? Possibly.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:47 pm

JD Sumner on Elvis's addiction and his own alcoholism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D870dwssD0A

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:32 am

Its amazing reading all of "elvis did this drug, elvis did that drug" that he had any lucid periods where he somehow found time to record anything or do anything else, because somehow he still managed to have a lot of highs (no pun intended) that other artists could only dream of.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:36 am

FredAistair wrote:Its amazing reading all of "elvis did this drug, elvis did that drug" that he had any lucid periods where he somehow found time to record anything or do anything else, because somehow he still managed to have a lot of highs (no pun intended) that other artists could only dream of.


Unfortunately not in the last eighteen months or so when it really spiraled out of control.

Geoff

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:00 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972.


September 1972? No. November 1972? Possibly.

You've stated your strong opinion on this before and I just adamantly disagree. There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily and there's more to his demeanor in September 1972 than tiredness. He wasn't right.

Unlike others, I don't know what drugs they were or if he was mixing different things together, I just know he's impaired and that he usually was at the time.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:05 am

FredAistair wrote:Its amazing reading all of "elvis did this drug, elvis did that drug" that he had any lucid periods where he somehow found time to record anything or do anything else, because somehow he still managed to have a lot of highs (no pun intended) that other artists could only dream of.


Like his Top 20 hit on March 8, 1975?

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:07 am

stevelecher wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote:He certainly had more things going on, other than tiredness, in those press conferences in September and November, 1972.


September 1972? No. November 1972? Possibly.

You've stated your strong opinion on this before and I just adamantly disagree. There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily and there's more to his demeanor in September 1972 than tiredness. He wasn't right.


You diminish your stance with a statement like that. There are many examples in 1972 of Elvis' behavior being far from such a state. And my view regarding the September 1972 "Aloha" announcement is based on fact, not conjecture.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:04 am

Using pretty heavily doesn't mean there weren't times he seemed pretty straight. There's no doubt though that he was using lots of medications. I don't think I diminished my stance by stating he was a heavy user in 1972.

None of us has any "facts" about his condition at that announcement in September 1972. You weren't there and neither was I. You believe he was very tired and I see bigger problems than that. Neither of us are changing our minds but I am surprised you don't suspect some impairment as you're not a rose colored glasses fan.

Re: What year did Presley start abusing narcotics?

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:39 pm

stevelecher wrote:I don't think I diminished my stance by stating he was a heavy user in 1972.

What you said was:

"There probably wasn't any time in 1972 that he wasn't using pretty heavily ..."

And that is refuted by the facts of his life in 1972, the testimony of the people who were around him, and more.