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Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:19 am

Lonely Summer wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Actually, no.

You are confusing who the mid-sixties press chose as a pertinent benchmark when interviewing the Beatles, with my thoughtful efforts to enlighten a handful of forum members evidently unaware of the undeniably great music and influential contributions of Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry.

All I can do is try. The rest is up to you! ;-)


So why didn't the mid 60s press rank Holly and Berry up there with Elvis?


Good question. Why don't you ask one of them?

Good luck!

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:05 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Lonely Summer wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Actually, no.

You are confusing who the mid-sixties press chose as a pertinent benchmark when interviewing the Beatles, with my thoughtful efforts to enlighten a handful of forum members evidently unaware of the undeniably great music and influential contributions of Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry.

All I can do is try. The rest is up to you! ;-)


So why didn't the mid 60s press rank Holly and Berry up there with Elvis?


Good question. Why don't you ask one of them?

Good luck!

You brought it up, and present yourself as the one who knows all. Apparently not.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:39 am

Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were highly rated by the mid 1960s press, in Britain at least. Elvis was different. By the mid 1960s he was being berated for failing to live up to his talents. And rightly so.

"Elvis, Usually Surrounded By Girls, Is Now Encircled By Controversy
Alan Smith, NME, 22 July 1966

SOME Of Elvis' staunchest British fans want to boil me in oil again. Another suggests I lower myself into a spin-dryer and turn it on. Yet another tells me to shut my mouth and not to be so bad mannered. And there are even those who simply want me kicked off the staff of the NME so that "someone who really loves Elvis" can review his films in the future (writes Alan Smith)."

Hmm. It looks as if some of those 'staunch fans' are still around.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:48 pm

NumberEight wrote:Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were highly rated by the mid 1960s press, in Britain at least. Elvis was different. By the mid 1960s he was being berated for failing to live up to his talents. And rightly so.

"Elvis, Usually Surrounded By Girls, Is Now Encircled By Controversy
Alan Smith, NME, 22 July 1966

SOME Of Elvis' staunchest British fans want to boil me in oil again. Another suggests I lower myself into a spin-dryer and turn it on. Yet another tells me to shut my mouth and not to be so bad mannered. And there are even those who simply want me kicked off the staff of the NME so that "someone who really loves Elvis" can review his films in the future (writes Alan Smith)."

Hmm. It looks as if some of those 'staunch fans' are still around.

:shock:

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:25 pm

NumberEight wrote:Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry were highly rated by the mid 1960s press, in Britain at least. Elvis was different. By the mid 1960s he was being berated for failing to live up to his talents. And rightly so.

"Elvis, Usually Surrounded By Girls, Is Now Encircled By Controversy
Alan Smith, NME, 22 July 1966

SOME Of Elvis' staunchest British fans want to boil me in oil again. Another suggests I lower myself into a spin-dryer and turn it on. Yet another tells me to shut my mouth and not to be so bad mannered. And there are even those who simply want me kicked off the staff of the NME so that "someone who really loves Elvis" can review his films in the future (writes Alan Smith)."

Hmm. It looks as if some of those 'staunch fans' are still around.


Indeed, they are. :)

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:01 pm

Lonely Summer wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Lonely Summer wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Actually, no.

You are confusing who the mid-sixties press chose as a pertinent benchmark when interviewing the Beatles, with my thoughtful efforts to enlighten a handful of forum members evidently unaware of the undeniably great music and influential contributions of Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry.

All I can do is try. The rest is up to you! ;-)


So why didn't the mid 60s press rank Holly and Berry up there with Elvis?


Good question. Why don't you ask one of them?

Good luck!

You brought it up, and present yourself as the one who knows all. Apparently not.



Buddy, Chuck and many more were fantastic innovative performers. However each decade had a 'figure' head. Bing in the 30's Frank in the 40's Elvis in the 50's Beatles in the 60's.

As such when Elvis came along he was measured against Sinatra more than any other 40's performer, and as the main figurehead of the 50's it was he who the Beatles were measured against. Others, of course, have since bean measured against the Beatles.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 pm

HoneyTalkNelson wrote:I honestly don't think "My Baby Left Me" would have burned up the charts in 1963. "Kiss Me Quick" was a much better choice for a single and more in step with musical tastes of the time.

The Beatles seem to have wanted Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode.

I wonder if seven years down the line, the 1970 Beatles would have wanted to sound like 1963?

Maybe "I Me Mine" needed some "yeah, yeah, yeah" added.


Good point - no artist wants to be stuck in one phase of their career, but a lot of people seem to judge Elvis differently.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:12 pm

heathbarclay wrote:
HoneyTalkNelson wrote:I honestly don't think "My Baby Left Me" would have burned up the charts in 1963. "Kiss Me Quick" was a much better choice for a single and more in step with musical tastes of the time.

The Beatles seem to have wanted Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode.

I wonder if seven years down the line, the 1970 Beatles would have wanted to sound like 1963?

Maybe "I Me Mine" needed some "yeah, yeah, yeah" added.


Good point - no artist wants to be stuck in one phase of their career, but a lot of people seem to judge Elvis differently.


It's actually no point at all.

As has been elucidated more than once on this topic, the Beatles did not want "Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode," they wanted Presley to record and release meaningful, committed music, as he did when he was great.

And it is also quite clear this is what the fans were crying, waiting and hoping for. They would have to wait a while.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:20 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
heathbarclay wrote:
HoneyTalkNelson wrote:I honestly don't think "My Baby Left Me" would have burned up the charts in 1963. "Kiss Me Quick" was a much better choice for a single and more in step with musical tastes of the time.

The Beatles seem to have wanted Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode.

I wonder if seven years down the line, the 1970 Beatles would have wanted to sound like 1963?

Maybe "I Me Mine" needed some "yeah, yeah, yeah" added.


Good point - no artist wants to be stuck in one phase of their career, but a lot of people seem to judge Elvis differently.


It's actually no point at all.

As has been elucidated more than once on this topic, the Beatles did not want "Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode," they wanted Presley to record and release meaningful, committed music, as he did when he was great.

And it is also quite clear this is what the fans were crying, waiting and hoping for. They would have to wait a while.


So true. They never said they wanted Elvis stuck in 1956 forever. What they didnt want was Queenie Wahini or Do The Clam. Meaningful records do not mean only 50's rock and roll. It meant music with feeling. In 1965, I expect this meant something along the lines of what The Righteous Brothers were recording, etc.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:47 pm

Lonely Summer brings up an interesting point.

I have also wondered just out of curiosity what the Beatles thought of the later material of Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Ricky Nelson, The Everly brothers etc.

Because to my knowledge the Beatles have never gave their thoughts on the post 1950s material of any of those performers just Elvis.

And not just the Beatles but i'd like to know what the Rolling Stones, The Who, Bob Dylan, David Bowie and Led Zeppelin thought about them as well.

I wish someone would ask McCartney, Ringo, Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Pete Townsend, Roger Daltrey and Robert Plant those questions because i would.

on another subject addressed in this thread i belive that if Elvis came out with material as good as Chuck Berry did during 1964-1965 he wouldn't have been criticized by the U.K. press.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:14 am

Yeah, would the Fabs have said "Jerry Lee lost us with that boring country material like "What Made Milwaukee Famous", and the Ricky got all singer/songwritery on us with that "Easy to Be Free"/"Garden Party" stuff, why couldn't he continue to cut great rockin' stuff like he did in 1958?" If the Fabs didn't hear greatness in Elvis' 1969 Memphis recordings......the mind boggles.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:52 am

r&b wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:It's actually no point at all.

As has been elucidated more than once on this topic, the Beatles did not want "Elvis perpetually stuck in 1956 mode," they wanted Presley to record and release meaningful, committed music, as he did when he was great.

And it is also quite clear this is what the fans were crying, waiting and hoping for. They would have to wait a while.


So true. They never said they wanted Elvis stuck in 1956 forever. What they didnt want was Queenie Wahini or Do The Clam. Meaningful records do not mean only 50's rock and roll. It meant music with feeling. In 1965, I expect this meant something along the lines of what The Righteous Brothers were recording, etc.


Thank you! It feels good to read that some fans don't drink the "Elvis could do no wrong" Kool-Aid.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:24 pm

brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:12 pm

Back to where we started out...

Paul McCartney in Melody Maker, July 19, 1964
“He did much better stuff in the early days when the songs did not come from films. In fact, we all liked him much better then. The songs were good, and we all used to think he was great.
I still like Elvis’ singing. His voice is good and he does the songs well. But the songs are not very good, in my opinion. I wish he would come away from the films for his records. Then, I think things would be much better.
I’m not knocking Presley’s singing, just the choice of material. I don’t rate it at all since he got so involved with the film songs. I even heard the other day that Elvis was planning to have all his singles from films in the future.
What a drag.”

It's difficult to believe that Paul's opinion was any different from that of the majority of Elvis fans at the time.


Paul McCartney in Record Mirror, May 15, 1965

"We’ve all bought sixteen mm film projectors with sound and everything. And we hire loads of films, it’s surprising but you can get some of the really latest top films. For instance, I’ve got Topkapi and Tom Jones. And we hire some of Elvis’s films too. I like them in the same way that I like Double Your Money".

Double Your Money was a UK quiz show that no-one (no-one I knew, anyway) took seriously.
Paul's comment about Elvis' films brings to mind a scene from the film A Hard Day's Night:
TV Producer: If you don't cooperate, you won't get to meet Susan.
George: And who's this Susan when she's at home?
TV Producer: Only Susan Canby, our resident teenager.
George: Oh! You mean that posh bird who gets everything wrong?
TV Producer: Excuse me?
George: Oh, yeah. The lads frequently sit around the telly and watch her for a giggle. One time, we actually sat down and wrote these letters saying how gear she was and all that rubbish.
TV Producer: She's a trendsetter. It's her profession.
George: She's a drag. A well known drag. We turn the sound down on her and say rude things.
TV Producer: [horrified] Get him out of here! He's knocking the program's image!
George: Have I said something amiss?
TV Producer: Get him out!



Ringo Starr in Melody Maker, January 8, 1966
Elvis: “I liked his early records. Don’t like what he’s doing now. Met him. He’s okay.”

Still four months to go until May 1966...


Ringo Starr, on the then-current “rock and roll revival”, in Disc and Music Echo, March 28, 1968
“Anyway, the only records I can think of that are anything like rock are [The Move’s] Fire Brigade and Elvis’s Guitar Man and ours [Lady Madonna].”

Now it's Ringo's turn to express what was probably the opinion of the majority of Elvis fans at the time.


Ringo Starr in Disc and Music Echo, February 7, 1970
Ringo had been in Las Vegas the previous weekend renewing his friendship with Elvis Presley, their first meeting since 1965. He had been sneaked in through the kitchen of the International Hotel, then seated in the audience for Presley’s cabaret show [presumably one of the January 30, 31 or February 1 shows]. During the act, Elvis announced that Ringo was in the audience and had him stand up for a bow. Later, Ringo, his wife Maureen, and Peter Brown of Apple got together with Elvis and Colonel Parker for a chat. Ringo told reporters later that he and Elvis had considered working together.
(Narrative adapted from The Beatles Press Reports, W. Fraser Sandercombe, Collectors Guide Publishing, Burlington, Ontario, 2007)
Ringo: “Elvis was great. Really fantastic. He was everything he’s cracked up to be, and more.”

John Lennon in Disc and Music Echo, February 28, 1970
John (on being asked what he listened to on the radio): “I even think that Elvis is sounding nice again. I’m an Elvis fan from way back.”

To my mind, this probably represents John's true feelings about Elvis. The "again" is significant. Lennon's later comment that "Elvis died when he joined the army", while a sincere expression of his disappointment and frustration with Elvis' mid-sixties output, is clearly an oversimplification, a pithy (and, unfortunately, memorable) one-liner that fails to capture the complexity of Lennon's feelings about Elvis. Of course, Elvis' post-1970 output and career path may have renewed Lennon's feelings of disappointment, but I prefer to leave it at February 1970. By that date, Elvis had redeemed himself and his career.

Although no-one knew it at the time, the Beatles had already ceased to exist. So John's and Ringo's comments above are among the last documented opinions about Elvis by any of the Beatles while they were still - in the public mind at least - the Beatles. So maybe we should leave it there. Even Beatles need heroes.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:00 pm

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.


He wasn't stoned and to me he doesn't look like it.

Now stop getting off topic.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:20 pm

NumberEight wrote:Back to where we started out...

Paul McCartney in Melody Maker, July 19, 1964
“He did much better stuff in the early days when the songs did not come from films. In fact, we all liked him much better then. The songs were good, and we all used to think he was great.
I still like Elvis’ singing. His voice is good and he does the songs well. But the songs are not very good, in my opinion. I wish he would come away from the films for his records. Then, I think things would be much better.
I’m not knocking Presley’s singing, just the choice of material. I don’t rate it at all since he got so involved with the film songs. I even heard the other day that Elvis was planning to have all his singles from films in the future.
What a drag.”

It's difficult to believe that Paul's opinion was any different from that of the majority of Elvis fans at the time.


Paul McCartney in Record Mirror, May 15, 1965

"We’ve all bought sixteen mm film projectors with sound and everything. And we hire loads of films, it’s surprising but you can get some of the really latest top films. For instance, I’ve got Topkapi and Tom Jones. And we hire some of Elvis’s films too. I like them in the same way that I like Double Your Money".

Double Your Money was a UK quiz show that no-one (no-one I knew, anyway) took seriously.
Paul's comment about Elvis' films brings to mind a scene from the film A Hard Day's Night:
TV Producer: If you don't cooperate, you won't get to meet Susan.
George: And who's this Susan when she's at home?
TV Producer: Only Susan Canby, our resident teenager.
George: Oh! You mean that posh bird who gets everything wrong?
TV Producer: Excuse me?
George: Oh, yeah. The lads frequently sit around the telly and watch her for a giggle. One time, we actually sat down and wrote these letters saying how gear she was and all that rubbish.
TV Producer: She's a trendsetter. It's her profession.
George: She's a drag. A well known drag. We turn the sound down on her and say rude things.
TV Producer: [horrified] Get him out of here! He's knocking the program's image!
George: Have I said something amiss?
TV Producer: Get him out!



Ringo Starr in Melody Maker, January 8, 1966
Elvis: “I liked his early records. Don’t like what he’s doing now. Met him. He’s okay.”

Still four months to go until May 1966...


Ringo Starr, on the then-current “rock and roll revival”, in Disc and Music Echo, March 28, 1968
“Anyway, the only records I can think of that are anything like rock are [The Move’s] Fire Brigade and Elvis’s Guitar Man and ours [Lady Madonna].”

Now it's Ringo's turn to express what was probably the opinion of the majority of Elvis fans at the time.


Ringo Starr in Disc and Music Echo, February 7, 1970
Ringo had been in Las Vegas the previous weekend renewing his friendship with Elvis Presley, their first meeting since 1965. He had been sneaked in through the kitchen of the International Hotel, then seated in the audience for Presley’s cabaret show [presumably one of the January 30, 31 or February 1 shows]. During the act, Elvis announced that Ringo was in the audience and had him stand up for a bow. Later, Ringo, his wife Maureen, and Peter Brown of Apple got together with Elvis and Colonel Parker for a chat. Ringo told reporters later that he and Elvis had considered working together.
(Narrative adapted from The Beatles Press Reports, W. Fraser Sandercombe, Collectors Guide Publishing, Burlington, Ontario, 2007)
Ringo: “Elvis was great. Really fantastic. He was everything he’s cracked up to be, and more.”

John Lennon in Disc and Music Echo, February 28, 1970
John (on being asked what he listened to on the radio): “I even think that Elvis is sounding nice again. I’m an Elvis fan from way back.”

To my mind, this probably represents John's true feelings about Elvis. The "again" is significant. Lennon's later comment that "Elvis died when he joined the army", while a sincere expression of his disappointment and frustration with Elvis' mid-sixties output, is clearly an oversimplification, a pithy (and, unfortunately, memorable) one-liner that fails to capture the complexity of Lennon's feelings about Elvis. Of course, Elvis' post-1970 output and career path may have renewed Lennon's feelings of disappointment, but I prefer to leave it at February 1970. By that date, Elvis had redeemed himself and his career.

Although no-one knew it at the time, the Beatles had already ceased to exist. So John's and Ringo's comments above are among the last documented opinions about Elvis by any of the Beatles while they were still - in the public mind at least - the Beatles. So maybe we should leave it there. Even Beatles need heroes.


I read that John was referring to the recent 1969 Memphis sessions when he made that comment.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:43 am

brian wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.


He wasn't stoned and to me he doesn't look like it.

Now stop getting off topic.

To some folks, Elvis in the 70's equals stoned out of his mind. Far from true.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:28 am

brian wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.


He wasn't stoned and to me he doesn't look like it.

Now stop getting off topic.

Why do you believe he was "thinking straight"? The whole purpose of that meeting with Nixon was so that Elvis could get his hands on that silly badge, so he could have the authority to carry around the drugs (and take them) whenever he wanted, without being questioned. That was Elvis' theory, anyway. Your one of these people who think, "he could do wrong brigade" bullshit. You are a prick, Brian. You started it, i was just commenting.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:34 am

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.


He wasn't stoned and to me he doesn't look like it.

Now stop getting off topic.

Why do you believe he was "thinking straight"? The whole purpose of that meeting with Nixon was so that Elvis could get his hands on that silly badge, so he could have the authority to carry around the drugs (and take them) whenever he wanted, without being questioned. That was Elvis' theory, anyway. Your one of these people who think, "he could do wrong brigade" deleted - see guidelines #2 You are a prick, Brian. You started it, i was just commenting.

He could do no wrong brigade, that was meant to read.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:42 am

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:
brian wrote:
rjm wrote:
brian wrote:
r&b wrote:However, it was a statement Elvis made to Nixon in '70 in an effort to convince Nixon to issue him a Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs badge that unfortunately Elvis will be remembered how he felt about the Beatles. Elvis may have been saying what he thought Nixon wanted to hear but that statement years later prompted Ringo to say that Elvis had tried to get the group “banned” in America.

When I first heard this, it as my low point being an Elvis fan. I suffered thru the movies, Tepper/Bennett tunes, but this just showed how out of touch Elvis was with the times and made him seem like the enemy to the youth culture. Its funny, in retrospect Elvis was probably stoned when he visited Nixon.


seriously?

I think you are being a hyperbolic.

It did not show Elvis being out of touch with the times and there wasn't anything really wrong with what he was saying.

Who cares what Elvis said to Nixon because it wasn't important and nothing happened with regards to his alledged statements.

Elvis was not stoned either that's a myth.


That's another topic.

(The handwriting in the letter sure is . . . intriguing. Ok. No proof he was stoned. But was he thinking straight? Naw. And when he said "I have no other agenda" he lied, stoned or not.)

rjm


I believe he was thinking straight.

Elvis certainly looks stoned in the photos of him and nixon.


He wasn't stoned and to me he doesn't look like it.

Now stop getting off topic.

Why do you believe he was "thinking straight"? The whole purpose of that meeting with Nixon was so that Elvis could get his hands on that silly badge, so he could have the authority to carry around the drugs (and take them) whenever he wanted, without being questioned. That was Elvis' theory, anyway. Your one of these people who think, "he could do wrong brigade" deleted - see guidelines #2 You are a prick, Brian. You started it, i was just commenting.


There you go trying to ruin my Saturday with your comments and calling me names.

I believe he was thinking straight because if he was stoned out of his mind Nixon and the white house staff would have noticed it.

No one has ever mentioned that and there was nothing in his comments to indicate he was stoned or not thinking straight.

Those were Elvis' opinions whether you agree with them or not and his hobby was to collect badges.

You are being a prick and also a dumb ass.

If you want to call someone names don't start with me because i'll destroy you.

By the way i grow tired of this attitude where if you genuinely stick up for Elvis not being stoned it's a do no wrong stance.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Now have a nice weekend and don't bother me anymore or call me names again.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:18 am

The Beatles opinion on Elvis is based from the perspective of the 60's sentiment, at this time they were very relevant and were changing with the times. On the polar opposite side is Elvis, a man who was once a raw rock 'n' roll rebel resorting to crooning Old MacDonald to a dog! The Beatles were probably disappointed because their hero of the early days had sold out. If we are honest with ourselves, we know that Elvis did sell out for the money. It's not the end of the world either, each decade from the 50's to the 70's is a juxtaposition from the previous.

To reach great heights you have to hit terrible lows and by the time the late 60's had come around Elvis was so establishment it's almost like he had paid his dues. All of the Beatles have in their own way moved to the centre ground in their careers. John Lennon spend most of the 70's pissed and coked up, but because of one song and a hippy mentality has become a working class hero! Had Elvis been gunned down at any time between 1968-1970 he would have been considered the ultimate superstar ever?

It is tribute or good fortune that Steve Binder coerced Elvis to make the 68 Comeback Special the spectacle it was, If the Colonel had his way, Elvis would have died a thousand and one deaths too many! A Christmas Special would have been one sell out too many IMO. Although the 68 Special reminded the world that Elvis was again relevant, the show was a master class in re-inventing a 50's Image that never was. No matter what the Beatles may have thought of the movie star side of Elvis, even they couldn't have foreseen such an amazing turnaround and fail to be impressed.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:38 am

Stoned or not, I think Elvis cared more about getting badges than getting good material to record by the end of 1970. The songs got worse & worse as the 70's progressed as he collected more & more badges.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:26 am

Aargh. This thread seems to have turned into a free-for-all, with a number of different threads with different sets of participants, some of whom, in addition to focusing on topics totally irrelevant to the discussion, have shown themselves to be extremely abusive, aggressive and unpleasant. Are they really entitled to spoil this for the rest of us?

My thanks to all those members who have contributed worthwhile comments to this discussion. They know who they are.

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:56 am

r&b wrote:Stoned or not, I think Elvis cared more about getting badges than getting good material to record by the end of 1970. The songs got worse & worse as the 70's progressed as he collected more & more badges.

When you have to battle year after year, session after session for decent material from your publisher, it's gotta wear you down after a while. Elvis in the 70's was worn down, it killed his desire to record. And yet, in spite of that, he managed to record more great sides in that sad decade than many artists will record in a career. Do we not love the Elvis Country and He Touched Me albums? Do we not count such sides as Burning Love, Always on My Mind, Promised Land, Pieces of My Life and Hurt as among the greatest in his career? If that's what a stoned-out-of-his-mind-singer sounds like, pass me the bennies and quaaludes!

Re: The Beatles and Fifties Elvis

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:07 am

brian wrote:I believe he was thinking straight because if he was stoned out of his mind Nixon and the white house staff would have noticed it.

Now have a nice weekend and don't bother me anymore or call me names again.


I agree: name-calling is uncool, inappropriate, and against the rules.

But as to who "noticed" it; Nixon himself did - for one, and addressed it in a statement years later about Elvis. He mostly said nice things, that Elvis was shy, etc. And he said that he was basically a good guy despite the "junk."

We don't know why he was red-eyed that day: there are several explanations. (I don't buy the "chocolate" explanation that Jerry Schilling gave to Peter Guralnick. Elvis enjoyed candy bars: Butterfingers in particular. But "chocolate" is/was drug slang. As is/was "candy." Personally, I think Peter Guralnick is a VERY straight-laced guy -- really.)

rjm