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Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:55 pm

I bought it when it came out since I only had the mono RCA Victor release. It was a cheap way to get stereo versions of most of the songs. "Chesay" was easily the least of the songs on the album. "Everybody Come Aboard" and "Look Out, Broadway" weren't great, but to get a stereo copy of the rest of the songs in those days for around $2 was a good deal.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:22 pm

RonBaker2003 wrote:I bought it when it came out ...

I did too, Ron, because the original RCA Victor release had been deleted by that time and wasn't available.

Six soundtrack albums had been deleted from the RCA catalog at that time.
In the U.S. almost immediately after Elvis' death they were reissued with the exception of Frankie And Johnny and that's probably due to the Pickwick edition having been recently released.

1976 Frankie And Johnny - http://www.elvisrecords.us/acl-7007-frankie-and-johnny/
1977 It Happened At The World's Fair - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2568-it ... rlds-fair/
1977 Harum Scarum - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2558-harum-scarum/
1977 Spinout - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2560-spinout/
1977 Double Trouble - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2564-double-trouble/
1977 Clambake - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2565-clambake/

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:50 pm

Should have stayed deleted. Damaging to his career at the time artistically (not money wise). I can still hear the customers snickering at the record store counter when this was on display. Terrible release, all the Pickwicks.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:54 am

likethebike wrote:I live for the day you actually something of merit on this board.

I live for the day you actually get a sense of humour (and perspective). Here's looking forward to five paragraphs on why the Frankie And Johnny soundtrack ain't so bad after all and how none of Elvis' 50s contemporaries where achieving anything like these great results at similar points in their careers.

:smt033

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:12 am

There was another Pickwick-only release in 1978 or 8: Mahalo From Elvis, which actually devoted its first side to unreleased material. Namely, all the post-concert Aloha insertion songs.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:08 am

You must remember that by the time this release came out Elvis & The Colonel no longer controlled the pre 1973 recordings. As part of the new contract of the times RCA could do, and did, anything they wanted with all material released prior to that date. That would pretty much clear up why this release existed. Pickwick was working under license from RCA.
This does not explain the other RCA Camden releases discussed- but could explains this one- Mahalo & any others on Camden/ Pickwick of the time.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:09 am

At least, the first Camden releases had some value. They brought unreleased material and "not available on LP before" tracks onto a LP album. Flaming Star, Let's Be Friends, Almost In Love, You'll Never Walk Alone,, Elvis' Christmas Album, C'mon Everybody and I Got Lucky were listenable albums on their own . But, from then on it really took off in the wrong direction with Burning Love and Separate Ways.....
As for the first Camden albums I don't mind if they release Elvis' Christmas Album (the original 1970 Camden release with original cover) and C'mon Everybody. I Got Lucky really did sound great, so they could do the same with these two also! Pity they screwed up Let's Be Friends!

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:43 am

The Camden albums appealed to people who bought music occasionally but didn't view it as a priority. My mom bought budget albums by Elvis and other artists because they were budget albums. First Elvis album she bought for me was "C'mon Everybody". I had no idea where those songs came from until my uncle looked at the album and said 'oh, this song is from Follow That Dream, and that song is from Kid Galahad, etc". And of course mom bought me the "Burning Love" album, probably thinking "how cool is that, a top ten hit on a low priced album". Ditto for "Separate Ways".

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:21 pm

Greybeard wrote:... As part of the new [1973] contract of the times RCA could do, and did, anything they wanted with all material released prior to that date. . .

Yes, including using a terrible photo for the front cover of Mahalo From Elvis.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahalo_from_Elvis

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:10 pm

Matthew wrote:
likethebike wrote:I live for the day you actually something of merit on this board.

I live for the day you actually get a sense of humour (and perspective). Here's looking forward to five paragraphs on why the Frankie And Johnny soundtrack ain't so bad after all and how none of Elvis' 50s contemporaries where achieving anything like these great results at similar points in their careers.

:smt033


I have to say that F&J is a guilty pleasure, and a soundtrack that I think has considerably more merit than others issued in the same period.

But F&J highlights a fundamental problem with Elvis's releasing strategy in the 60s - Elvis's soundtrack albums were never soundtrack albums in the proper sense. For example, no incidental music or instrumentals were ever included. The versions of songs on the albums were not necessarily the same as in the film. Other singers in the film rarely appeared on the soundtrack album. And, most importantly, they were issued as Elvis albums instead of soundtrack albums. Or, to put it another way, no-one classes High Society or Can-Can as Sinatra albums, they are soundtracks. With Elvis there was no difference.

Had it been a proper soundtrack release, the F&J album would have included, for example, the complete production number version of the title song, and not the re-recording that Elvis did. Or, in G I Blues, the music for Juliet Prowse's numbers would have been included. Only on the Speedway album do we get a song by another artist.

To have released the soundtracks in the traditional way would have allowed for a separation of Elvis's studio work and his film work, and would have made much more sense artistically. Sadly, it wasn't about how Presley's recordings would look, but how much money the Colonel thought he could make.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:30 pm

If memory serves, the complete production number of F & J is on the FTD F & J. I find it a boring listen without the visuals.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:43 pm

JerryNodak wrote:If memory serves, the complete production number of F & J is on the FTD F & J. I find it a boring listen without the visuals.


Yes, it's there. And of course most fans would find it a boring listen, but people who bought film soundtracks probably wouldn't. My point is that the soundtracks were actually aimed at pop audiences when they are not the people who buy most soundtracks. had they been true soundtracks, then they wouldn't have appeared in Elvis racks at the record shop at all.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:27 pm

It's kind of a double edged sword Peter. The method you describe would actually contextualize the work, however, with a few exceptions the incidental music in Elvis' movie was not written to stand alone. In fact, many of the musical cues in Elvis' movies are songs that Elvis sings in the movie but in instrumental form. On something like Blue Hawaii it was probably better from a listener's stand point to have only Elvis' tracks as they eliminated the chaff.

It was that album and GI Blues that pretty much ended any idea of pure soundtrack albums. The phenomenal sales of those albums made RCA and the Colonel determined to repeat it, although they never would.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Matthew wrote:
likethebike wrote:I live for the day you actually something of merit on this board.

I live for the day you actually get a sense of humour (and perspective). Here's looking forward to five paragraphs on why the Frankie And Johnny soundtrack ain't so bad after all and how none of Elvis' 50s contemporaries where achieving anything like these great results at similar points in their careers.

:smt033


I have to say that F&J is a guilty pleasure, and a soundtrack that I think has considerably more merit than others issued in the same period.

But F&J highlights a fundamental problem with Elvis's releasing strategy in the 60s - Elvis's soundtrack albums were never soundtrack albums in the proper sense. For example, no incidental music or instrumentals were ever included. The versions of songs on the albums were not necessarily the same as in the film. Other singers in the film rarely appeared on the soundtrack album. And, most importantly, they were issued as Elvis albums instead of soundtrack albums. Or, to put it another way, no-one classes High Society or Can-Can as Sinatra albums, they are soundtracks. With Elvis there was no difference.

Had it been a proper soundtrack release, the F&J album would have included, for example, the complete production number version of the title song, and not the re-recording that Elvis did. Or, in G I Blues, the music for Juliet Prowse's numbers would have been included. Only on the Speedway album do we get a song by another artist.

To have released the soundtracks in the traditional way would have allowed for a separation of Elvis's studio work and his film work, and would have made much more sense artistically. Sadly, it wasn't about how Presley's recordings would look, but how much money the Colonel thought he could make.

Oddly enough, the Beatles' American labels took the opposite approach with their movie albums. A Hard Days Night (on United Artists) and Help! (on Capitol) both contain a lot of incidental music, even Yellow Submarine (on Apple) has the George Martin score included.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Poormadpeter wrote:To have released the soundtracks in the traditional way would have allowed for a separation of Elvis's studio work and his film work, and would have made much more sense artistically. Sadly, it wasn't about how Presley's recordings would look, but how much money the Colonel thought he could make.
Oddly enough, the Beatles' American labels took the opposite approach with their movie albums. A Hard Days Night (on United Artists) and Help! (on Capitol) both contain a lot of incidental music, even Yellow Submarine (on Apple) has the George Martin score included.


The difference all together is that Elvis and The Colonel by 1965 had already lost interest in artistic archievements for years: soundtracks were an easy way to cash in on contracts from both RCA and the movie bizz, songs were almost solely selected on publishing deals and they has no intention to bring contemporary pop music: it had to be easy listening, harmless and innocent family entertainment. Why bother to deliver an artistically interesting album or any kind of true soundtrack album when millions were coming in this way as well?

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:14 pm

Blue River wrote: Six soundtrack albums had been deleted from the RCA catalog at that time.
In the U.S. almost immediately after Elvis' death they were reissued with the exception of Frankie And Johnny and that's probably due to the Pickwick edition having been recently released.

1976 Frankie And Johnny - http://www.elvisrecords.us/acl-7007-frankie-and-johnny/
1977 It Happened At The World's Fair - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2568-it ... rlds-fair/
1977 Harum Scarum - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2558-harum-scarum/
1977 Spinout - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2560-spinout/
1977 Double Trouble - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2564-double-trouble/
1977 Clambake - http://www.elvisrecords.us/apl1-2565-clambake/


That's probably the case. In the Presleyana price guide there reads that "One month after Elvis' death, RCA announced reissues of six Elvis soundtrack albums from the '60s, one of which is Frankie and Johnny (APL1-2559). This information appears in the Phonolog New Release Reporter for the week September 26, 1977. Though the other five albums do exist, we have never verified a US issue of this one. It was likely withdrawn at the last moment to avoid conflict with the Pickwick issue of Frankie and Johnny. This is not to be confused with a fairly common Canadian issue bearing the APL1-2559 prefix."

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:00 pm

likethebike wrote: The other was an abbreviated version of Frankie and Johnny with three songs omitted and the Elvis Now photo as the cover.


Two songs were omitted and they were Chesay and Everybody Come Abroad. Album's all five photos were '70s concert shots without anykind link to the movie Frankie and Johnny...

CORRECTION: Yes, three songs were omitted, the songs I mentioned and Look Out, Broadway. Pickwick's edition has the rest of songs in different order than RCA's album in 1966.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:09 pm

Matthew wrote:
likethebike wrote:I live for the day you actually something of merit on this board.

I live for the day you actually get a sense of humour (and perspective). Here's looking forward to five paragraphs on why the Frankie And Johnny soundtrack ain't so bad after all and how none of Elvis' 50s contemporaries where achieving anything like these great results at similar points in their careers.

:smt033


There are a lot of us on this site that appreciate the time, effort and knowledge LTB brings to this forum.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:35 am

Wasn't the Camden and Pickwick releases mainly for the none record store sales like Woolworths, Sears, Target, Rexall Drugs, Kmart, Walgreens etc? I remember seeing them only there and never at any of the actual record stores. Our neighborhood drug store had a small bin or records and 8-Track tapes that were usually 99 cents to $1.99. They always had Camden/Pickwick releases in there. They once had the "Raised on Rock" album there for $1.99 in 1974! It had to be a mistake.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:08 am

eligain wrote:Wasn't the Camden and Pickwick releases mainly for the none record store sales like Woolworths, Sears, Target, Rexall Drugs, Kmart, Walgreens etc? I remember seeing them only there and never at any of the actual record stores. Our neighborhood drug store had a small bin or records and 8-Track tapes that were usually 99 cents to $1.99. They always had Camden/Pickwick releases in there. They once had the "Raised on Rock" album there for $1.99 in 1974! It had to be a mistake.

I don't believe they were aimed strictly at drug/thrift stores, but that does appear to be a major part of their marketing. The same kinds of stores that always had the latest hit compilations from K-Tel and Ronco. "22 Explosive Hits" "Super Bad" "Get it On" "Rock Power" "Fantastic" "Dynamite". I would suspect, too, that Pickwick had plans to re-release more Elvis soundtracks in the manner they did F&J...but then 8/16/77 happened,and changed everything.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:11 am

eligain wrote:Wasn't the Camden and Pickwick releases mainly for the none record store sales like Woolworths, Sears, Target, Rexall Drugs, Kmart, Walgreens etc? I remember seeing them only there and never at any of the actual record stores. Our neighborhood drug store had a small bin or records and 8-Track tapes that were usually 99 cents to $1.99. They always had Camden/Pickwick releases in there. They once had the "Raised on Rock" album there for $1.99 in 1974! It had to be a mistake.


That may have been a cut out. Sometimes they made their way to supermarkets.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:08 am

I can easily imagine - if Elvis had lived - Pickwick coming out with "It Happened at the World's Fair", with pics of Elvis at MSG, lol (their Double Dynamite comp had the same cover photo as Elvis as Recorded at MSG)...or putting out "Spinout" minus the only worthwhile songs on the album - the bonus tracks.

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:16 am

Lonely Summer wrote:I can easily imagine - if Elvis had lived - Pickwick . . . .
putting out "Spinout" minus the only worthwhile songs on the album - the bonus tracks.

Sort of like BMG did in '94 >> www.elvisoncd.com/eigenecd/CD/d/df-spin ... rouble.htm :lol:

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:23 am

Blue River wrote:
Lonely Summer wrote:I can easily imagine - if Elvis had lived - Pickwick . . . .
putting out "Spinout" minus the only worthwhile songs on the album - the bonus tracks.

Sort of like BMG did in '94 >> http://www.elvisoncd.com/eigenecd/CD/d/ ... rouble.htm :lol:

I wasn't buying cd's back then, but that's horrible!

Re: Frankie and Johnny on Pickwick

Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:40 am

Lonely Summer wrote:
Blue River wrote:
Lonely Summer wrote:I can easily imagine - if Elvis had lived - Pickwick . . . .
putting out "Spinout" minus the only worthwhile songs on the album - the bonus tracks.

Sort of like BMG did in '94 >> http://www.elvisoncd.com/eigenecd/CD/d/ ... rouble.htm :lol:

I wasn't buying cd's back then, but that's horrible!

In all fairness the BMG Double Features cd's had/have pretty good sound and came with informative booklets.

Flaming Star / Follow That Dream / Wild In The Country
Kid Galahad / Girls! Girls! Girls!
It Happened At The World's Fair / Fun In Acapulco
Viva Las Vegas / Roustabout
Harum Scarum / Girl Happy
Frankie and Johnny / Paradise, Hawaiian Style
Spinout / Double Trouble
Kissin' Cousins / Clambake / Stay Away, Joe
Easy Come, Easy Go / Speedway
Live A Little, Love A Little / The Trouble With Girls / Charro / Change Of Habit
>> www.elvisoncd.com/eigenecd/CD/d/df-live ... charro.htm