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MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:56 am

I think the claim that the original MSG release (1972 LP) was a speeded-up recording has long since been dismissed. I always thought, anyway, that the songs were just rushed.

Now, having PFAP, it's easy to compare the song timings of the two June 10 shows which appear on pages 46 and 47 of the booklet. Showing the timings from the afternoon show first, and the evening show second, we have :

That's All Right 2.23 / 2.14
Proud Mary 2.45 / 2.47
Never Been To Spain 3.36 / 3.28
You Don't Have To Say You Love Me 2.07 / 2.03
You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' 4.23 / 4.12
Polk Salad Annie 3.09 / 2.58
Love Me 1.52 / 1.42
All Shook Up 1.01 / 1.00
Heartbreak Hotel 1.45 / 1.45
Teddy Bear / Don't Be Cruel 1.58 / 1.51
Love Me Tender 1.35 / 1.45
Hound Dog 2.08 / 1.54
Suspicious Minds 4.45 / 4.21
For The Good Times 3.09 / 3.11
An American Trilogy 4.41 / 4.32
Funny How Time Slips Away 2.52 / 2.43
I Can't Stop Loving You 2.20 / 2.43
Can't Help Falling In Love 1.41 / 1.41

This is quite remarkable, I think, as in the high majority of cases the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

I realise that these timings won't be the precise timings of the songs themselves (albeit there was very little between-song patter) so it's not an ultra-scientific examination. But maybe it does go some way towards explaining why one or more band members may have felt that the original release was speeded up.

Steve Morse

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:07 am

Maybe he was anxious to meet Led Zeppelin after the show?

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:07 am

Great observation. Although a typical layman would not know the difference. FYI, the evening show on PFAP runs considerably longer than the 1992 CD release.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:35 am

Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:42 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


We have a winner!

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:43 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


We have a winner!

It is very doubtful Elvis was informed to speed up his set in order to fit it into an LP release. In fact, there's not a shred of evidence supporting such an idea.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:52 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


We have a winner!

It is very doubtful Elvis was informed to speed up his set in order to fit it into an LP release. In fact, there's not a shred of evidence supporting such an idea.


He did rush the show. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:56 am

Yes, all in all he went 1 minute and 18 seconds quicker! Cmon guys, lighten up!

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:09 am

New York crowds in the evening are usually high on crack, hence the sped up show.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:54 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


Joan Deary stated that Elvis did not even know that RCA was recording these shows.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:12 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?

We have a winner!

Thanks.

It's what I do! :smt002

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:32 am

Joe Car wrote:Yes, all in all he went 1 minute and 18 seconds quicker! Cmon guys, lighten up!


Well, kinda. But was the gap between each song shorter as well? If so, then there was obviously an intended speeding up. Certainly the fact that most songs are shorter is certainly intriguing. But it could just be the way he felt like singing them that night.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:46 am

Pure speculation on my part but my guess would be that it was Elvis’ full intention to have both himself and the band appear ‘tighter’ and ‘slicker’ for the evening show as it would likely have been more scrutinized than the more relaxed feeling of an afternoon show.

As I said, speculation on my part but I suspect it’s something that Elvis would have thought about when weighing up, in his mind, his afternoon performance.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:46 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


We have a winner!

It is very doubtful Elvis was informed to speed up his set in order to fit it into an LP release. In fact, there's not a shred of evidence supporting such an idea.


He did rush the show. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Here professor, let me highlight the salient portion of the post you replied to, hence my reply.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:15 am

The times of live songs don't mean anything because of the talking, applause etc. that is included in the total time of each track.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:48 am

Steve Morse wrote:I think the claim that the original MSG release (1972 LP) was a speeded-up recording has long since been dismissed. I always thought, anyway, that the songs were just rushed.

Now, having PFAP, it's easy to compare the song timings of the two June 10 shows which appear on pages 46 and 47 of the booklet. Showing the timings from the afternoon show first, and the evening show second, we have :

That's All Right 2.23 / 2.14
Proud Mary 2.45 / 2.47
Never Been To Spain 3.36 / 3.28
You Don't Have To Say You Love Me 2.07 / 2.03
You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' 4.23 / 4.12
Polk Salad Annie 3.09 / 2.58
Love Me 1.52 / 1.42
All Shook Up 1.01 / 1.00
Heartbreak Hotel 1.45 / 1.45
Teddy Bear / Don't Be Cruel 1.58 / 1.51
Love Me Tender 1.35 / 1.45
Hound Dog 2.08 / 1.54
Suspicious Minds 4.45 / 4.21
For The Good Times 3.09 / 3.11
An American Trilogy 4.41 / 4.32
Funny How Time Slips Away 2.52 / 2.43
I Can't Stop Loving You 2.20 / 2.43
Can't Help Falling In Love 1.41 / 1.41

This is quite remarkable, I think, as in the high majority of cases the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

I realise that these timings won't be the precise timings of the songs themselves (albeit there was very little between-song patter) so it's not an ultra-scientific examination. But maybe it does go some way towards explaining why one or more band members may have felt that the original release was speeded up.

Steve Morse


Part of the timing difference is the following:

1. That's All Right Elvis starts singing immediately after the horns fade on the eve show, not so on the matinee
2. Polk Salad Annie the windup is a little shorter on the eve show and he goes straight into Love Me without pause, matinee he pauses a few seconds and talks to the audience.
3. Suspicious Minds is missing one whole verse/refrain on the eve show as he went right into the workout after the bridge...if you look at the film from the eve show you will see him winding his arm and looking at the band as if to say "let's go--now!"
4. Can't Stop Loving You has a reprise on the eve show, not so on the matinee.

Those are the biggest differences between the shows individual performances and that in the evening show certain numbers are played in a more aggressive manner. There's going to be a number of small timing differences on the songs anyway...after all they weren't all Stepford Wives playing it exactly the same way everytime.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:22 am

Well, the Garden at night can be an intense experience, and perhaps he was looser in the afternoon. (One could say was concerned about the quickie album, but somehow I doubt it prayed on his mind a whole lot. If he had slowed down, they'd have sped it up anyway, because clearly they didn't care how it sounded.)

It's just the intensity of the Garden at night. I saw an artist twice in '88, first in a big Garden show at night, filled with high profile types, the media, etc., and though it was fine, the show I saw that fall in the Meadowlands was looser, longer, and much more relaxed. And I'd have to say I preferred the latter.

I want to hear the new sounding night show to hear how it really sounded; should be interesting! (A little something to dance in my head on the night of Dec. 24. I'd rather wait. I mean, I bought it already, but it goes under the tree! I want some joy! And some suspense.)

rjm

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:21 pm

Had Joe taken the time to pick up his prescription for Dilaudid and liquid Coke prior to the afternoon show they would have both been the same speed.
Doing that afternoon show cold turkey must have really pissed E off!

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:35 pm

promiseland wrote:Had Joe taken the time to pick up his prescription for Dilaudid and liquid Coke prior to the afternoon show they would have both been the same speed.
Doing that afternoon show cold turkey must have really pissed E off!

Now we have a winner!

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:02 pm

ekenee wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
Steve Morse wrote:...the evening show songs are performed significantly faster. So, why was Elvis in such a hurry, I wonder ? :D

Perhaps the trimmed down set list and warp speed tempos were tailored to fit the max playing time [52-minute limitation] of a standard single LP?


Joan Deary stated that Elvis did not even know that RCA was recording these shows.


Ekenee, if memory serves, Elvis made a statement at the press conference that he was aware there was a recording truck at MSG.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:05 pm

TCB-FAN wrote:Great observation. Although a typical layman would not know the difference. FYI, the evening show on PFAP runs considerably longer than the 1992 CD release.


It is a minute and a half longer, but only because they have included Al Dvorin's announcements at the end of the cd for the first time.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:06 pm

Al's announcements alone are worth the price of the set.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:41 pm

Pete Dube wrote:... if memory serves, Elvis made a statement at the press conference that he was aware there was a recording truck at MSG.

No, Presley's comment was very general. He refers to "officials" -- maybe Deary or Jarvis.

Elvis, do you know if they'll be recording concerts here?

It's possible you know, it's possible. I don't know. They have RCA Victor officials here, so I don't know.

- New York press conference, Friday, June 9, 1972

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:30 am

I stand corrected Doc.

Re: MSG - 'evidence' of the rushed Evening Show

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:51 am

Pete Dube wrote:I stand corrected Doc.

No worries, you stand tall!

::rocks