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Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:26 pm

I recently found an old interview with Ernst Jorgensen from 1998 that seems to suggest that Elvis' first road show concert since 1961 - that of his appearance in Phoenix, AZ - September 9, 1970 was indeed filmed [audience inserts were used in TTWII] and I quote "with a hand held camera but they didn't record it". I hope I'm reading this right, as I've long held the opinion that Sanders would not have gone to the trouble of just filming audience shots, when he had more than enough similar shots to his disposal from the concert filming in the Showroom of the International in August. And why were those fabulous stills, found on the rear of the TTWII soundtrack album, from the very Phoenix gig in question !!!!
It would be great if Ernst could confirm that Elvis' noted performance in Phoenix was indeed captured on film, as this is arguably the most important lost live 70's performance footage I can recall.

With thanks to worldwideelvis
http://www.worldwideelvis.com/ERNSTMAY98PART2.SHTML

Image
Elvis Presley live in concert - Phoenix, AZ - September 9, 1970.
Last edited by elvisalisellers on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:29 pm

One can only hope that they did captured this on film...ty for sharing ::rocks

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:39 pm

Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:55 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.

Yes, it may well be segmented footage but the fact that EJ notes a "hand held camera" suggests said footage could well be filmed near to the stage. It's strange his quote has not been discussed before, as we are dealing with very important footage, that could well turn out to be the finest captured of Elvis Presley Live, certainly from the 70's.
Anyone have a close enough working relationship with Ernst who could provide the answers ? Thanks.

::rocks

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:52 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.


Where the hell is Uber-land?

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.

Yes, it may well be segmented footage but the fact that EJ notes a "hand held camera" suggests said footage could well be filmed near to the stage.

If you can determine where the audience is sitting in the opening montage of TTWII, you'll be able to gauge how close the hand-held camera was to the stage. From my memory, the shots are of the audience in the stands (not the floor), gazing at Elvis from stage left.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:06 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.

Yes, it may well be segmented footage but the fact that EJ notes a "hand held camera" suggests said footage could well be filmed near to the stage.

If you can determine where the audience is sitting in the opening montage of TTWII, you'll be able to gauge how close the hand-held camera was to the stage. From my memory, the shots are of the audience in the stands (not the floor), gazing at Elvis from stage left.


That's correct.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:13 am

There was plenty of excellent footage of Elvis already in the can from the Vegas shows. What was needed from Phoenix was footage of an enthusiastic and excitied audience at an Elvis show. That was the whole purpose of this secondary filming date.

Any footage at all of Elvis would only have been supplementary. But it was not needed and is therefore quite unlikely.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:49 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Bear in mind if Elvis was captured on silent color film on 9-09-1970, it might only be a few minutes, a distance from the stage.

There are apparently other concert possibilities, lurking in Über-land. Maybe some day one of them will surface.

Yes, it may well be segmented footage but the fact that EJ notes a "hand held camera" suggests said footage could well be filmed near to the stage.

If you can determine where the audience is sitting in the opening montage of TTWII, you'll be able to gauge how close the hand-held camera was to the stage. From my memory, the shots are of the audience in the stands (not the floor), gazing at Elvis from stage left.

I'm guessing that Sanders had more than one film camera present at this show - Also Ernst's answer to the question "We see the Phoenix audience in the film. Did MGM film or record the whole show" - EJ: "They filmed it with a hand held camera but they didn't record it", to me infers he is talking about a camera independent to those capturing the audience reactions.
I also recall seeing [many years ago] a still from this show, which clearly showed a camera [I don't recollect it being hand held] pointing directly close to the stage. IIRC, said revealing photo was from an old UK Fan Club [25th Anniversary?] magazine. Anyone know or have the photo in question ?

Rick Schmidlin could also be another avenue for definitive answers on this interesting topic - I don't remember anyone asking him about Phoenix at the time of TTWII-SE.
Last edited by elvisalisellers on Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:55 am

I doubt there is. We would have seen it by now. There has been plenty of opportunity for us to have seen it. None of it was in the outtakes or the new version of TTWII. Nothing. Just the crowd shots. Everyone finds it hard to believe the makers of the movie would not shoot Elvis in Phoenix but considering they didn't shoot full shows or rehearsals in Vegas, It's easy to believe. They didn't need to shoot him in Arizona. They already had what they wanted. Which was Elvis in Vegas. All they needed was shots of crazy excitement which you could only get in arena.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:41 pm

Yes they filmed in Pheonix, but NOT Elvis & his show, just heaps of the crowds!~ :roll:

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:40 pm

Back in 06' there was some discussion about this very topic.

Some of what is written in this thread link below you might find interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=25202&hilit=phoenix+interview

There was an interview done by associate Editor of the original "Elvis World"
magazine "Sam Roy", who interviewed associate director "John Wilson" of the movie
"That's The Way It Is" in 1979.

John Wilson suggested in the interview the complete show was filmed, plus I
interviewed a lady in 06' who was 14 years of age in 1970.

From her memory of the event, she remembered 3 camera's, with one being pointed at
the stage filming Elvis.

PEP 8)

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:46 pm

lvs4evr wrote:great topic and thanx for the quote from jorgensen, who cares if there is no sound , they can work around that maybe with a good ar cassette. Now that mgm went bankrupt, i'm sure the new buyers will aquire this and all films and hopefully they are more compassionate towards ELVIS fans , and maybe they will like to try selling a new dvd , with this and other great stuff.


and maybe they WONT, like......

your optimisim is unbelievable i almost envy it !!

- sorry but you have to wake up to the real world -
no one is throwing money at any TTWII footage - there is still tons of the real stuff in the can with multi-track sound to go with it , they wont be syncing up any footage to Aud rec sound -

THERE IS NO COMPASSION - Theres only the almighty $$$$$$$$$

If 'THEY' had compassion - we would have got Johnny B Goode in its rightful place over the opening credits on the dvd & pitiful Blu-ray - not to mention a 2nd disc of extras !!!

They didnt point a camera at elvis in phoenix -
as stated, they had more than enough footage of HIM from vegas -
they went for a non vegas audience ( & the screaming little girl in the yellow top)
and more excitement & exactly thats what they filmed !!!!!

you wont ever get an official 'Phoenix 1970 ' dvd

besides there is still tons of footage to work with & more so from On Tour !
lack of footage isnt the problem - lack of effort & 'COMPASSION' is !!!!

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:17 pm

The last comment in this article from Arizona Republic is interesting in this case.

Presley fans were "unlucky"
By Thomas Goldthwaite
Arizona Republic
September 10, 1970


If Col. Tom Parker doesn't watch out, his extraordinary property, Elvis Presley, could be headed toward life in a wax museum.

And no doubt your true Presley fan, ardent, crazy and by now nostalgic, would be just as happy to have it that way.

Presley's return to Phoenix last night after 13 years of increasing fortune, if not fame, brought a full house at the Memorial Coliseum of 15,000 persons, Presley fans every one of us: and every one of us perhaps too much wanting him to pick up where he left off here in 1957.

He obliged only too briefly in a rapid fire, false-start, almost impatient string of his early hits: "Blue Suede Shoes," "Hound Dog," and "Heartbreak Hotel."

He could have gone a full hour in such vein and torn the house down. As it was, the audience was wholly shell-shocked from a preceding hour of all kinds of acoustical enormities inflicted on them by lesser talents, one of the most wretched amplification systems ever devised and an unfortunate box office snarl owing to an early evening bomb scare.

No need to dwell on that first hour: four men called the Hugh Jarrett Singers, who looked in their 30s, had potbellied postures of the late 40s and harmonic difficulties mindful of senior citizens. Their rapport with the audience was good natured but darned corny:

"Doggone, you're a good audience!" cried the smiling leader.

Next came a group of seven called Sweet Inspiration who seemed inspired only to deafen everyone. All of this racket abeited by a 15-piece band under Joe Guercio.

It was mayhem, but not in the rock manner of today or even yesterday. It was the hellist kind Renaissance painters used to depict in things like "The Last Judgment"

This is where canny Col. Parker misjudged the times. His clients are not soul searchers. They are cornball Presley fans and it was obvious they came to remember what this creature was like. That he hasn't adapted very well to the music of today - he tried several times last night, abandoned one song and forgot the lyrics to another - is simply a painful reality for all of us.

When he bounced on stage, a mixture of Lord Byron and Davy Crockett, all done up in white with Kelly green scarf and sash, the American flag might as well have appeared for the mighty roar that went up, for all the excitement and popping of flash bulbs. It was then one saw the audience for what it was: a thirtysh crowd with the best of good will and full of hope.

Elvis greeted them warmly, sang some inferior songs of little impact and still waved off the shouting from all about for the old hits ... his hits of 10, 15 years ago.

What he felt at the response is unknown. He's enjoying a universal rebirth at Las Vegas where no doubt his old fans clamor for the old hits, too.

He flopped a bit like the old days, though it seems stylized now and rather like a Kachina mime, posed, pointed, stabbed and sprawled. But there is less of that now.

The voice is better than ever. Swooping a quivering vibrato passionate gasps and a solid baritone. He conducts final chords with great (...). His "Love Me Tender" was tossed off to swooning females where once it was oozed all over them. Still they (..) and rolled and gasped last night, eager as ever to catch his glance or one supposed a drop of his sweat.

They paid $1 for an old fashioned photo album and probably today will buy "Elvis' 50 Golden Hits" on RCA for $15.

MGM brought its cameras to the Coliseum to film the show as a finale for a documentary due at Thanksgiving.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:30 pm

The reviewer probably saw the movie cameras there that were shooting the crowd and just figured they were shooting the show too.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:17 pm

what about a soundboard does one exist in selfish collectors hands?

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:37 pm

The Phoenix/Elvis on stage footage myth is as concrete as the "pool interview" footage. What we have here are a group of individuals who yes, may have seen cameras, but assumed that MGM was filming the show. A woman asks "the guy next to her" and he confirms they are from MGM and are filming the show? Who was that guy? How would he know for sure? People can be fond of filling in the gaps with their own assumptions and rumors...and then people start to believe it.

All this is entertaining to think about...it gives us all a chance to put our Columbo coats on and do investigations like this was the Kennedy assassination. But as mentioned, besides the crowd shots...there hasn't been one frame of footage of Elvis performing from this show. If there were...how great could footage be from the stands?...and no sound?

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:35 am

Knowing the colonel's behaviour,
I wouldn't be surprised if MGM was allowed to film the audience but not Elvis.

The old man even went crazy when Elvis wore his own watch filming Blue Hawaii.
No private property allowed, his contract said;)

Here's the chance of Elvis Phoenix footage emerging in the future:

0%

We would have seen something by now, Sorry.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:36 am

its clear MGM had cameras there but not to catch elvis !!!

Thats an interesting review - we like to think off elvis in his prime on that 1st tour in autumn 1970 but its clear the non-fan
didnt see it as quite the amazing show we like to believe !! another case of elvis having the talent & having the ability
but failing to deliver - or certainly not making the best off it - abit like some of the recording sessions a few months earlier
he never should have been wasting his time & talent on 'this is our dance' & 'heart of rome' & all that crap!!!

i hate to turn it round to drugs all the time, but its clear when you listen to these shows he was ovbviously hammering the uppers
at this point, pretty much as soon as the cameras left the show room
- hence rushing thru songs & the whole show - 40/45 mins in his TTWII prime - such a wasted oppourtunity !
not to mention some of the bravado - imitating/putting down tom jones, humperdink etc !

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:50 am

I don't know if it had anything to do with drugs but i have found the September 1970 tour and to an extent the November 1970 tour disappointing. The shows barely make it to 45 minutes. He gives shortened versions of I've Lost You and The Wonder Of You. In Seattle in November he skips Bridge and Suspicious Minds altogether. The Phoenix show is pretty damn short. These were his first tours since the 50's. You would have thought he would have offered more.

The November 1971 tour blows these tours away. The 71 tour has more interesting setlists, longer shows and so on.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:59 am

what we need to do guys is post as many photos or still shots from film footage that shows the stage set up or photos that might show cameraman near the stage filming.

So all you guys did into your archives and lets start a massive collection of stuff from this show be it concert reviews photos anything you would like to bring up.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:59 pm

DEH wrote:I don't know if it had anything to do with drugs but i have found the September 1970 tour and to an extent the November 1970 tour disappointing. The shows barely make it to 45 minutes. He gives shortened versions of I've Lost You and The Wonder Of You. In Seattle in November he skips Bridge and Suspicious Minds altogether. The Phoenix show is pretty damn short. These were his first tours since the 50's. You would have thought he would have offered more.

The November 1971 tour blows these tours away. The 71 tour has more interesting setlists, longer shows and so on.


Agree, the 1970 shows were sorta disappointing. Ok, Elvis looked great, but he rushed through most of the songs and the setlists were kinda bland. Compare it to the November tour, which probably had his best setlists ever, and judging from the footage available, he was having a blast...

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:00 pm

As for those early 1970 tours, it's as though, not having toured in a long while, he didn't know how to prepare a tour show. It sounds like he simply took the Vegas show on the road.

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:10 pm

PEP wrote:Back in 06' there was some discussion about this very topic.

Some of what is written in this thread link below you might find interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=25202&hilit=phoenix+interview

There was an interview done by associate Editor of the original "Elvis World"
magazine "Sam Roy", who interviewed associate director "John Wilson" of the movie
"That's The Way It Is" in 1979.

John Wilson suggested in the interview the complete show was filmed, plus I
interviewed a lady in 06' who was 14 years of age in 1970.

From her memory of the event, she remembered 3 camera's, with one being pointed at
the stage filming Elvis.

PEP 8)

Many thanks for the old thread link PEP. It makes for very interesting reading and if possible, makes me even more certain Elvis was indeed captured on film in Phoenix. Cheers !
::rocks

Re: Official "Filming" Confirmation - Phoenix, AZ - 9/9/70 ?

Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:35 pm

[quote="AHM1977"]
MGM brought its cameras to the Coliseum to film the show as a finale for a documentary due at Thanksgiving.[quote]

Thanks for the review friend. That last highlighted bit is very interesting information as it kind of ties in with the original film synopsis for TTWII. I don't have said synopsis word for word [anyone have it ?] but I always found it very strange that it made note of the documentary "Following Elvis on his first concert tour since the 50's...." or words to that effect. I would not be surprised to learn that the Phoenix show was indeed intended to feature at some point in the film - almost certainly as the reviewer noted at the "finale" of the documentary. Clearly plans changed at a very late stage during the editing process but for whatever reason the original synopsis remained unchanged.