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Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:29 pm

Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost $2 million dollars just to restore the footage. That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc.

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 DVDs, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 40,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?


it is funny: if it comes to film no-one understands it but you. You are starting to be a second Doc around here.
Film restoration clearly comes in prices, qualities, use of techniques in relation of the platform screening is intended and efficiency and obviously differ in regards to age and damage.

Turner owns the right to Harum Scarum, which was restored and released to DVD. Did you really think restoration costs would be $100,000 for such a vehicle? And then sell it in retail for USD 8? I know Spartakus was restored at USD 5494 per minute but is that same treatment required for EOT?

poormadpeter wrote: Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 DVDs, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 40,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?


Did anyone in 1992 think that an expensive box set with 50s hits could sell 2 times platinum in regular retail? One never makes any money with saying things can not be done.


I have spent the last seven years of my life studying and researching old film, and much of my work takes to me to film archives and in contact with archives. I'm not some jackass who pretends to know everything, but I do know my field.

Harum Scarum when released on DVD was not restored in anything like the way to EOT footage would need to be. We know the quality of the print was relatively high because we already had seen it on vhs. Harum Scarum was not restored in the sense that we are talking about here. It may have been titivated a little bit, but the work needed on that film to make it presentable would be nothing like that needed on film cans that have been sitting in a film vault largely untouched for forty years. The same can be said for the actual film of Elvis On Tour. We know the print used for the vhs and for tcm etc was in good condition already. We have no idea what the other material looks like, unless we go by those outtakes on TTWII.

No, the film will not get the work that Spartacus got, but your figures suggest that $320,000 were spent on each hour of Spartacus, whereas my own figure for EOT is $75,000 per hour of footage. Realy quite conservative in comparison.

And you are arguing with yourself here. You now want the film to be restored and remastered, but you don't want it done to the highest possible level? You either do something well or you don't do it at all. If warner were to release a half-hearted restoration that looks "ok" but not great, how well would that do? How much flack would Warner get for doing that? "We waited ages, and now we've got something that looks sh*t" would be the comments flying around here. IF you are trying to sell something like this outside of the 3000-5000 people who regularly buy FTDs then you are going to have to take time and effort over it to do it properly.

And you cannot compare the 1992 50s boxed set with this endeavour. Firstly, it was TWENTY years ago, and secondly, the 50s material was pulled together for the first time in an historically important boxed set that was recognised as such by all serious rock and pop enthusiasts. EOT has nothing like that gravitas associated with it. It is just a concert movie. It's like turning to Hitchcock's work and saying that they should expect the same returns on a restoration of Topaz today as they did on Vertigo 16 years ago. You are not comparing like with like. Yes, it won a Golden Globe. Whoopee! Until this year there were still Best Picture Oscar Winners not out on DVD yet.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:12 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 pm

You must also consider that in addition to restoring the footage, it must be assembled and edited. The raw footage is from each single camera so there is not a single edited element on this footage.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:31 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:38 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:52 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:41 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".


So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:43 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".


So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

Why do we have to quote the whole nine yards time and time again?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:44 pm

poormadpeter wrote:So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

I don't even know 15,000 people.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:51 pm

Rob wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".


So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

Why do we have to quote the whole nine yards time and time again?

That is annoying, isn't it, Rob?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:58 pm

Blue River wrote:
Rob wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".


So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

Why do we have to quote the whole nine yards time and time again?

That is annoying, isn't it, Rob?

Quit it!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:04 pm

Being realistic and looking at the market for such things is not the same as not being a fan. I'd love to see this stuff, but i can also understand why it isn't becoming available to us.

And lets look at these weird and wonderful figures regarding Elvis week and the amount of people through Graceland each year. Just because someone visits a museum doesn't mean they are a fan. I've been to the National History museum but I'm not particularly interested in nature on a day to day basis. I don't go out and buy books or dvds on it. Hell, I don't even have a dog. But it's in London and I was spending time there so I went in and had a look round.

People go on holiday to America, and they are going to visit landmarks, museums etc while they are there. So if they find themselves in Memphis, they are likely to visit Graceland. When we talk of visitors to Graceland we are not talking about fans who get excited about "lost footage" we are talking about people on holiday with a passing interest for the most part.

Obviously lots of fans attend Elvis week. But how many go alone? Just because X amount of people attend, does not mean that all those people are fans. Many are the families of fans. Dad or Mum is a fan, so they are going this year and taking their kids with them and making a holiday of it. So one fan = 4 people. Let's assume that all 4 of that household are fans - they aren't going to buy 4 copies a dvd for one house.

And many fans are more than happy with just having the Elvis On Tour movie. While some of us will pay good money to see the discarded footage, many will just think that they have pretty much all the songs on the dvd anyway, so why pay to hear and see other performances from the same shows that they already have extracts from?

If you take all of this into account, you are looking at a small amount of people to whom this footage is exciting. It's not "lost" footage from a tour we have nothing else from on video, it's discarded footage. It hasn't suddenly been found, it's always been there. That doesn't make a news story, and it doesn't make a promotional angle to reach out to Joe Public either. The fans who are interested in this are the same ones that pay out for FTDs every quarter. And we know those figures are a mere 5000 at most. Even this historically important Boy From Tupelo wasn't deemed financially viable as a mainstream release.

Pre-orders for Prince from Another Planet, which DOES contain new footage recently discovered is causing such a tidal wave of excitement that it is currently a measly no. 35 on the amazon music charts in the USA and no. 136 in the UK. I repeat: outside of us fans, no-one cares at the moment.

But the biggest indication that this is not a money making venture for Warner is that IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. If this was deemed to be a sure fire winner, then it would have been in our hands long before now.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:24 pm

poormadpeter wrote:So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

He only needs to know 14,999 as, presumably, he will buy one too.

Brian

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:26 am

Rob wrote:
Blue River wrote:
Rob wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.


The poster has a great idea and obviously took time to think it out and study it. I give him credit for doing that. My only knock would be that it wouldn't draw television channel interest as much as a one-time-only concert event would. If you went to any of the major non cable channels like NBC, FOX, ABC or CBS and said we have a never-before-seen Elvis concert shot in HD, it would instantly draw massive bidding wars between those networks. The general public would watch a new unseen Elvis concert more than they would some new documentary on a tour.

But, as far as restoring the footage, a 1 hour long concert event (say, Richmond or Greensboro since he looked physically better in those performances)would only be about $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 USD to restore. You don't need all the extra footage shot during the tour. Then when the DVD comes out, they could remaster the EOT songs from the 1992 VHS release of The Lost Performances, maybe include the studio mock recording of Always On My Mind (that was used for the This Is Elvis production), and include it as bonus footage not shown on the televised special. If that sells well enough, then they could look to do a sequel of some sorts.

As you can see from my point and from the previous posters, this IS DOABLE AND FEASIBLE. The only question is, will Time Warner ever consider it? I hate to be negative but, I doubt it.


Even if you restored the one concert, you would not just have to restore one hour of footage, but that hour of footage from all the different camera angles. I don't know how many angles were employed on EOT, but let's say four. That means you're looking at restoring 4 hours of footage at $75,000 per hour. That's $300,000 before you ever start assembling it. You're then looking at selling that concert as a single disc at say $20 a pop. That means you need to sell 15,000 units just to cover the restoration of the concert itself (not including the extra material you talk about, the editing, packaging etc).


E.P.E. would sell 15,000 units alone it's first week of release at Graceland. So what's your point? Since Aloha sold millions once released on DVD, I'm pretty sure that a never-before-seen concert for the first time ever would sell much more. People who doubt that are obviously underestimating the power and international appeal of Elvis Presley. Big mistake. We're not talking about a man who just died or died a few years ago. We're talking about a man who died over 30 years ago who still outdraws the living today.


Again, you are talking about ten years ago nearly. And, again, those were career-defining moments in presley's career. This is not. It never will be. With FTDs of new material only selling 3000-5000 units, why do you think that a concert on DVD would sell three times that amount? It's not going to happen. The international appeal of Elvis outside us hardcare fans is virtually nil at the moment. For whatever reason, he is out of fashion. No-one cares. That may sounds blunt, but it's true.

Going to Warner saying "I think this will sell 15,000 units" isn't going to convince them. They want evidence of that. They say to you, "so how many fans buy unreleased Elvis material on CD". You say "5000". They say "so why will this sell more?". You say "errrr. Because it will."


You're either blind, naive or simply not a real fan. But I'll leave it at that as I KNOW what I am talking about. As Elvis said in College Park "you can either believe me or believe them gotdamn tabloids".


So you personally know 15,000 people who will buy a copy?

Why do we have to quote the whole nine yards time and time again?

That is annoying, isn't it, Rob?

Quit it!

Ty Ty ::rocks
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Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:53 am

The bottom line is this.....we the fans are not getting any younger, we've been collecting boatloads of Elvis media for decades (well some of us anyway), and the waiting and wanting for more new, unreleased concert & backstage footage from 1972 is simply killing us..both physically and emotionally. Yes, I can attest to that, I've been pulling my grey hairs over Warner's reluctance to release new Elvis footage for years. We all know its there. It exists, yet nothing is being done to get these out of the salt mine canisters and into the hands of valued & dedicated fans. We're no closer to attaining this much valued footage than we were 20 years ago. At least 20 years ago, we were much younger and more patient, but time is of the essence. Life is too brief and I think it's time something should be done to pressure the heads at Warner to let loose this goldmine to the fans. I propose we start an official FECC petition on facebook to get the wheels rolling in the right direction. Any other effective ideas is always welcome. It's simply time for change.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:20 am

TCB-FAN wrote:The bottom line is this.....we the fans are not getting any younger, we've been collecting boatloads of Elvis media for decades (well some of us anyway), and the waiting and wanting for more new, unreleased concert & backstage footage from 1972 is simply killing us..both physically and emotionally. Yes, I can attest to that, I've been pulling my grey hairs over Warner's reluctance to release new Elvis footage for years. We all know its there. It exists, yet nothing is being done to get these out of the salt mine canisters and into the hands of valued & dedicated fans. We're no closer to attaining this much valued footage than we were 20 years ago. At least 20 years ago, we were much younger and more patient, but time is of the essence. Life is too brief and I think it's time something should be done to pressure the heads at Warner to let loose this goldmine to the fans. I propose we start an official FECC petition on facebook to get the wheels rolling in the right direction. Any other effective ideas is always welcome. It's simply time for change.


Personally it's knocked at least ten years off my projeced lifespan already. I'm sure that with a petition of a hundred fans from this board, the head of Warner will just give the go ahead to his company throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project that will never recoup its costs just to keep the Elvis fans happy. He's probably a nice guy like that. And it's not like the economic situation is bad, either, so no need to keep a tight reign on their expenses, eh?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:16 am

poormadpeter wrote:Being realistic and looking at the market for such things is not the same as not being a fan. I'd love to see this stuff, but i can also understand why it isn't becoming available to us.

And lets look at these weird and wonderful figures regarding Elvis week and the amount of people through Graceland each year. Just because someone visits a museum doesn't mean they are a fan. I've been to the National History museum but I'm not particularly interested in nature on a day to day basis. I don't go out and buy books or dvds on it. Hell, I don't even have a dog. But it's in London and I was spending time there so I went in and had a look round.

People go on holiday to America, and they are going to visit landmarks, museums etc while they are there. So if they find themselves in Memphis, they are likely to visit Graceland. When we talk of visitors to Graceland we are not talking about fans who get excited about "lost footage" we are talking about people on holiday with a passing interest for the most part.

Obviously lots of fans attend Elvis week. But how many go alone? Just because X amount of people attend, does not mean that all those people are fans. Many are the families of fans. Dad or Mum is a fan, so they are going this year and taking their kids with them and making a holiday of it. So one fan = 4 people. Let's assume that all 4 of that household are fans - they aren't going to buy 4 copies a dvd for one house.

And many fans are more than happy with just having the Elvis On Tour movie. While some of us will pay good money to see the discarded footage, many will just think that they have pretty much all the songs on the dvd anyway, so why pay to hear and see other performances from the same shows that they already have extracts from?

If you take all of this into account, you are looking at a small amount of people to whom this footage is exciting. It's not "lost" footage from a tour we have nothing else from on video, it's discarded footage. It hasn't suddenly been found, it's always been there. That doesn't make a news story, and it doesn't make a promotional angle to reach out to Joe Public either. The fans who are interested in this are the same ones that pay out for FTDs every quarter. And we know those figures are a mere 5000 at most. Even this historically important Boy From Tupelo wasn't deemed financially viable as a mainstream release.

Pre-orders for Prince from Another Planet, which DOES contain new footage recently discovered is causing such a tidal wave of excitement that it is currently a measly no. 35 on the amazon music charts in the USA and no. 136 in the UK. I repeat: outside of us fans, no-one cares at the moment.

But the biggest indication that this is not a money making venture for Warner is that IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. If this was deemed to be a sure fire winner, then it would have been in our hands long before now.


Did you pay $80.00 USD to see the History museum? Like I said, don't underestimate the power and world appeal of Elvis Presley. I used to think the same as you do now and was hit with a jolt of reality when I looked at who all is touring Graceland and buying his music online or in stores. It's not grandmas and grandpas as much as you and others may think. Someone told me to check out Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets to see just what teenagers and young adults think of Elvis and I was overwhelmed at the results!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:46 am

I am NOT the least bit interested in purchasing additional "On Tour" anything UNTIL I can buy "On Tour" on DVD complete with the "JBG" opening sequence. End of story for me.
Last edited by JerryNodak on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:47 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:Being realistic and looking at the market for such things is not the same as not being a fan. I'd love to see this stuff, but i can also understand why it isn't becoming available to us.

And lets look at these weird and wonderful figures regarding Elvis week and the amount of people through Graceland each year. Just because someone visits a museum doesn't mean they are a fan. I've been to the National History museum but I'm not particularly interested in nature on a day to day basis. I don't go out and buy books or dvds on it. Hell, I don't even have a dog. But it's in London and I was spending time there so I went in and had a look round.

People go on holiday to America, and they are going to visit landmarks, museums etc while they are there. So if they find themselves in Memphis, they are likely to visit Graceland. When we talk of visitors to Graceland we are not talking about fans who get excited about "lost footage" we are talking about people on holiday with a passing interest for the most part.

Obviously lots of fans attend Elvis week. But how many go alone? Just because X amount of people attend, does not mean that all those people are fans. Many are the families of fans. Dad or Mum is a fan, so they are going this year and taking their kids with them and making a holiday of it. So one fan = 4 people. Let's assume that all 4 of that household are fans - they aren't going to buy 4 copies a dvd for one house.

And many fans are more than happy with just having the Elvis On Tour movie. While some of us will pay good money to see the discarded footage, many will just think that they have pretty much all the songs on the dvd anyway, so why pay to hear and see other performances from the same shows that they already have extracts from?

If you take all of this into account, you are looking at a small amount of people to whom this footage is exciting. It's not "lost" footage from a tour we have nothing else from on video, it's discarded footage. It hasn't suddenly been found, it's always been there. That doesn't make a news story, and it doesn't make a promotional angle to reach out to Joe Public either. The fans who are interested in this are the same ones that pay out for FTDs every quarter. And we know those figures are a mere 5000 at most. Even this historically important Boy From Tupelo wasn't deemed financially viable as a mainstream release.

Pre-orders for Prince from Another Planet, which DOES contain new footage recently discovered is causing such a tidal wave of excitement that it is currently a measly no. 35 on the amazon music charts in the USA and no. 136 in the UK. I repeat: outside of us fans, no-one cares at the moment.

But the biggest indication that this is not a money making venture for Warner is that IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. If this was deemed to be a sure fire winner, then it would have been in our hands long before now.


Did you pay $80.00 USD to see the History museum? Like I said, don't underestimate the power and world appeal of Elvis Presley. I used to think the same as you do now and was hit with a jolt of reality when I looked at who all is touring Graceland and buying his music online or in stores. It's not grandmas and grandpas as much as you and others may think. Someone told me to check out Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets to see just what teenagers and young adults think of Elvis and I was overwhelmed at the results!


My point was not how much the museum cost, but that people go to places of interest when they are on holiday. People go and visit Universal studios but they're not necessarily avid film fans. It's what people do.

Interesting how you continually forget the fact that Warner would not sit on this footage if they could make money from it. And if there are as many people out there continually buying new Elvis product how come Prince From Another Planet won't set the charts on fire next week? How come Young Man With The Big Beat didn't sell by the bucketload? I don't remember a gold status for that being mentioned.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:11 am

poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:Being realistic and looking at the market for such things is not the same as not being a fan. I'd love to see this stuff, but i can also understand why it isn't becoming available to us.

And lets look at these weird and wonderful figures regarding Elvis week and the amount of people through Graceland each year. Just because someone visits a museum doesn't mean they are a fan. I've been to the National History museum but I'm not particularly interested in nature on a day to day basis. I don't go out and buy books or dvds on it. Hell, I don't even have a dog. But it's in London and I was spending time there so I went in and had a look round.

People go on holiday to America, and they are going to visit landmarks, museums etc while they are there. So if they find themselves in Memphis, they are likely to visit Graceland. When we talk of visitors to Graceland we are not talking about fans who get excited about "lost footage" we are talking about people on holiday with a passing interest for the most part.

Obviously lots of fans attend Elvis week. But how many go alone? Just because X amount of people attend, does not mean that all those people are fans. Many are the families of fans. Dad or Mum is a fan, so they are going this year and taking their kids with them and making a holiday of it. So one fan = 4 people. Let's assume that all 4 of that household are fans - they aren't going to buy 4 copies a dvd for one house.

And many fans are more than happy with just having the Elvis On Tour movie. While some of us will pay good money to see the discarded footage, many will just think that they have pretty much all the songs on the dvd anyway, so why pay to hear and see other performances from the same shows that they already have extracts from?

If you take all of this into account, you are looking at a small amount of people to whom this footage is exciting. It's not "lost" footage from a tour we have nothing else from on video, it's discarded footage. It hasn't suddenly been found, it's always been there. That doesn't make a news story, and it doesn't make a promotional angle to reach out to Joe Public either. The fans who are interested in this are the same ones that pay out for FTDs every quarter. And we know those figures are a mere 5000 at most. Even this historically important Boy From Tupelo wasn't deemed financially viable as a mainstream release.

Pre-orders for Prince from Another Planet, which DOES contain new footage recently discovered is causing such a tidal wave of excitement that it is currently a measly no. 35 on the amazon music charts in the USA and no. 136 in the UK. I repeat: outside of us fans, no-one cares at the moment.

But the biggest indication that this is not a money making venture for Warner is that IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. If this was deemed to be a sure fire winner, then it would have been in our hands long before now.


Did you pay $80.00 USD to see the History museum? Like I said, don't underestimate the power and world appeal of Elvis Presley. I used to think the same as you do now and was hit with a jolt of reality when I looked at who all is touring Graceland and buying his music online or in stores. It's not grandmas and grandpas as much as you and others may think. Someone told me to check out Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets to see just what teenagers and young adults think of Elvis and I was overwhelmed at the results!


My point was not how much the museum cost, but that people go to places of interest when they are on holiday. People go and visit Universal studios but they're not necessarily avid film fans. It's what people do.

Interesting how you continually forget the fact that Warner would not sit on this footage if they could make money from it. And if there are as many people out there continually buying new Elvis product how come Prince From Another Planet won't set the charts on fire next week? How come Young Man With The Big Beat didn't sell by the bucketload? I don't remember a gold status for that being mentioned.


Do you not realize that the main purpose for people going to Memphis, a dangerous and crime ridden city, is to visit Graceland? It's not like Memphis is some kind of tourist destination where people go and spend a fortune on entertainment like in Las Vegas or Los Angeles. It's not Orlando where there's numerous things with family-friendly attractions to see and do to be entertained. It's Memphis. Therefor the vast majority of visitors ARE fans and not just some sightseers. The sightseers are the ones who you see standing outside the gates taking pictures and not spending a nickle. Not the ones over at the center actually spending money on tickets, cds, dvds, and other merchandise. Maybe in your part of town or the world Elvis may not be as followed as he is in other parts. So maybe you fail to see the global picture and not just a local one

Young Man With A Big Beat was nominated for a GRAMMY. Nuff said.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:32 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:Being realistic and looking at the market for such things is not the same as not being a fan. I'd love to see this stuff, but i can also understand why it isn't becoming available to us.

And lets look at these weird and wonderful figures regarding Elvis week and the amount of people through Graceland each year. Just because someone visits a museum doesn't mean they are a fan. I've been to the National History museum but I'm not particularly interested in nature on a day to day basis. I don't go out and buy books or dvds on it. Hell, I don't even have a dog. But it's in London and I was spending time there so I went in and had a look round.

People go on holiday to America, and they are going to visit landmarks, museums etc while they are there. So if they find themselves in Memphis, they are likely to visit Graceland. When we talk of visitors to Graceland we are not talking about fans who get excited about "lost footage" we are talking about people on holiday with a passing interest for the most part.

Obviously lots of fans attend Elvis week. But how many go alone? Just because X amount of people attend, does not mean that all those people are fans. Many are the families of fans. Dad or Mum is a fan, so they are going this year and taking their kids with them and making a holiday of it. So one fan = 4 people. Let's assume that all 4 of that household are fans - they aren't going to buy 4 copies a dvd for one house.

And many fans are more than happy with just having the Elvis On Tour movie. While some of us will pay good money to see the discarded footage, many will just think that they have pretty much all the songs on the dvd anyway, so why pay to hear and see other performances from the same shows that they already have extracts from?

If you take all of this into account, you are looking at a small amount of people to whom this footage is exciting. It's not "lost" footage from a tour we have nothing else from on video, it's discarded footage. It hasn't suddenly been found, it's always been there. That doesn't make a news story, and it doesn't make a promotional angle to reach out to Joe Public either. The fans who are interested in this are the same ones that pay out for FTDs every quarter. And we know those figures are a mere 5000 at most. Even this historically important Boy From Tupelo wasn't deemed financially viable as a mainstream release.

Pre-orders for Prince from Another Planet, which DOES contain new footage recently discovered is causing such a tidal wave of excitement that it is currently a measly no. 35 on the amazon music charts in the USA and no. 136 in the UK. I repeat: outside of us fans, no-one cares at the moment.

But the biggest indication that this is not a money making venture for Warner is that IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. If this was deemed to be a sure fire winner, then it would have been in our hands long before now.


Did you pay $80.00 USD to see the History museum? Like I said, don't underestimate the power and world appeal of Elvis Presley. I used to think the same as you do now and was hit with a jolt of reality when I looked at who all is touring Graceland and buying his music online or in stores. It's not grandmas and grandpas as much as you and others may think. Someone told me to check out Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets to see just what teenagers and young adults think of Elvis and I was overwhelmed at the results!


My point was not how much the museum cost, but that people go to places of interest when they are on holiday. People go and visit Universal studios but they're not necessarily avid film fans. It's what people do.

Interesting how you continually forget the fact that Warner would not sit on this footage if they could make money from it. And if there are as many people out there continually buying new Elvis product how come Prince From Another Planet won't set the charts on fire next week? How come Young Man With The Big Beat didn't sell by the bucketload? I don't remember a gold status for that being mentioned.


Do you not realize that the main purpose for people going to Memphis, a dangerous and crime ridden city, is to visit Graceland? It's not like Memphis is some kind of tourist destination where people go and spend a fortune on entertainment like in Las Vegas or Los Angeles. It's not Orlando where there's numerous things with family-friendly attractions to see and do to be entertained. It's Memphis. Therefor the vast majority of visitors ARE fans and not just some sightseers. The sightseers are the ones who you see standing outside the gates taking pictures and not spending a nickle. Not the ones over at the center actually spending money on tickets, cds, dvds, and other merchandise. Maybe in your part of town or the world Elvis may not be as followed as he is in other parts. So maybe you fail to see the global picture and not just a local one

Young Man With A Big Beat was nominated for a GRAMMY. Nuff said.


Memphis is home to a lot more than Elvis, not least its connections to legendary recording studios and other music stars.

That Young Man With A Big Beat was a critical success does not mean that it sold thousands of units.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:30 am

if it cost that amount of money lisa marie presley have to give something back from her father to the fans!!!! the all rich because of elvis!!!

so it is a shame if the dont just pay the cost for the production

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:35 am

it gets worse.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:49 am

The Aloha DVD set sold millions? Really??