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Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:27 pm

Elvisgirl wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

people are never satisfied with what they have. i want more too, just like everyone else. but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate what we have. admit it, you would like to see more stuff to be released as well?


Yes, providing it's interesting. But I am getting to the stage where I am picky. Am I interested in a new routine soundboard concert? Not really. I'll play it once and stick it on a shelf never to be played again. Am I desparate to hear the outtakes of Kissin Cousins? Nope. We have so much now that very little would actually provide us with anything new.

Would I be happy to see the Elvis On Tour concerts get a DVD or CD release? Of course I would as we don't have all that much video footage and so more would be welcome. But I have no illusions that it would give us something completely different to what we already have and know. And it should also be remembered that Turner/Warner have already raided the archives twice for these concert documentaries, first for Lost performances, and then again for TTWII SE. So, it's not like we have been deprived of outtakes.

And Warner are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They provided some raw quality footage on the 2DVD set of TTWII and people moaned because it looked bad. But if it's not financially viable to restore the footage, what are they to do? Release it and get moaned at for the quality? Or not release it at all?

Personally, if Warner are ever going to do an archive project on Presley then I hope they manage to combine the On Tour material with something such as a feature length quality documentary on Elvis's time at MGM, including footage of outtakes, the songs cut from the films and so on. We already have Presley concerts on DVD. Backstage footage of Elvis on set, taking direction, early takes of scenes and the lost scenes from the films are things that we have never seen at all. Yes, we have the home movies, but those don't show Elvis applying his craft. An On Tour concert would add nothing new to the Elvis story, whereas outtakes etc from the movies and seeing how Elvis actually worked on a film set would add something completely new. We know from FTD how Elvis worked in the recording studio, but how he worked in the film studio is something we don't know at all other than from accounts from others.

But, again, it is a project I would like to see. It doesn't mean I think it will ever be financially viable.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:44 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

people are never satisfied with what they have. i want more too, just like everyone else. but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate what we have. admit it, you would like to see more stuff to be released as well?


Yes, providing it's interesting. But I am getting to the stage where I am picky. Am I interested in a new routine soundboard concert? Not really. I'll play it once and stick it on a shelf never to be played again. Am I desparate to hear the outtakes of Kissin Cousins? Nope. We have so much now that very little would actually provide us with anything new.

Would I be happy to see the Elvis On Tour concerts get a DVD or CD release? Of course I would as we don't have all that much video footage and so more would be welcome. But I have no illusions that it would give us something completely different to what we already have and know. And it should also be remembered that Turner/Warner have already raided the archives twice for these concert documentaries, first for Lost performances, and then again for TTWII SE. So, it's not like we have been deprived of outtakes.

And Warner are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They provided some raw quality footage on the 2DVD set of TTWII and people moaned because it looked bad. But if it's not financially viable to restore the footage, what are they to do? Release it and get moaned at for the quality? Or not release it at all?

Personally, if Warner are ever going to do an archive project on Presley then I hope they manage to combine the On Tour material with something such as a feature length quality documentary on Elvis's time at MGM, including footage of outtakes, the songs cut from the films and so on. We already have Presley concerts on DVD. Backstage footage of Elvis on set, taking direction, early takes of scenes and the lost scenes from the films are things that we have never seen at all. Yes, we have the home movies, but those don't show Elvis applying his craft. An On Tour concert would add nothing new to the Elvis story, whereas outtakes etc from the movies and seeing how Elvis actually worked on a film set would add something completely new. We know from FTD how Elvis worked in the recording studio, but how he worked in the film studio is something we don't know at all other than from accounts from others.

But, again, it is a project I would like to see. It doesn't mean I think it will ever be financially viable.

personally, i don't care much for outtakes and documentaries...i'm more of a concert fan, and can never get enough of them. and with the artists i like, elvis included, of course, i want as many as possible, on dvd as well as cd. though it may not give me something completely different to what i already have and know, any concert i haven't seen or heard before, is always amazing and "new" to me. however, i do think that the movie project idea sounds very interesting. that would be something i would love to see

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:19 pm

Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:10 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.


And every one of those releases are E.P.E. owned. There's a reason why NBC sold the rights to those specials. They knew they couldn't make a profit off of them down the road. Time-Warner needs to wake up and see the same thing. Sell it to E.P.E. now while there's still a major interest in Elvis. E.P.E. is looking for ways to expand their inventory of video products and an additional 20 hours of unseen footage would do wonders for them for the foreseeable future. My guess is that TW will want a boat load of cash for the footage.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:21 pm

Here's something to consider. Who's to say that E.P.E. and Time Warner aren't in negotiations to make some type of deal? We could wake up one morning and read on Elvis.com that TW has sold all Presley outtakes of TTWII and EOT to E.P.E. Or they could come out and announce a joint-partnership for a never-before-seen Elvis concert in its entirety to be released. Where E.P.E. invests money into restoration and remastering and both split the revenue. Point being, if and when some deal is ever made between the two parties, we won't know ahead of time. It won't leak out to fans until an official announcement is made.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:24 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.


And every one of those releases are E.P.E. owned. There's a reason why NBC sold the rights to those specials. They knew they couldn't make a profit off of them down the road. Time-Warner needs to wake up and see the same thing. Sell it to E.P.E. now while there's still a major interest in Elvis. E.P.E. is looking for ways to expand their inventory of video products and an additional 20 hours of unseen footage would do wonders for them for the foreseeable future. My guess is that TW will want a boat load of cash for the footage.


have you thought that, perhaps, EPE are interested either?

We are presuming that warner thinks it will cost too much money to restore and release this material to make it financially viable considering how many units they think will be sold.

Right?

So YOU think it will be financially viable for EPE not only to restore and release the material but also to BUY it off Warner as well?

Where is the logic in that? It would cost EPE MORE to put this material out than Warner. Not only would they have to BUY the material from Warner, they would also have to outsource the restoration of the film because they wouldn't have the resources to do it inhouse. Which then means the restoration would cost more for them than Warner because there is going to be a third part involved. And just because EPE puts the material out doesn't mean that any more will be sold.

Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:29 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.


And every one of those releases are E.P.E. owned. There's a reason why NBC sold the rights to those specials. They knew they couldn't make a profit off of them down the road. Time-Warner needs to wake up and see the same thing. Sell it to E.P.E. now while there's still a major interest in Elvis. E.P.E. is looking for ways to expand their inventory of video products and an additional 20 hours of unseen footage would do wonders for them for the foreseeable future. My guess is that TW will want a boat load of cash for the footage.


have you thought that, perhaps, EPE are interested either?

We are presuming that warner thinks it will cost too much money to restore and release this material to make it financially viable considering how many units they think will be sold.

Right?

So YOU think it will be financially viable for EPE not only to restore and release the material but also to BUY it off Warner as well?

Where is the logic in that? It would cost EPE MORE to put this material out than Warner. Not only would they have to BUY the material from Warner, they would also have to outsource the restoration of the film because they wouldn't have the resources to do it inhouse. Which then means the restoration would cost more for them than Warner because there is going to be a third part involved. And just because EPE puts the material out doesn't mean that any more will be sold.

Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!



And that's that.

The myth that the EOT outtakes would do so much better if they went to EPE can finally be put to rest.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:39 pm

Justin wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.


And every one of those releases are E.P.E. owned. There's a reason why NBC sold the rights to those specials. They knew they couldn't make a profit off of them down the road. Time-Warner needs to wake up and see the same thing. Sell it to E.P.E. now while there's still a major interest in Elvis. E.P.E. is looking for ways to expand their inventory of video products and an additional 20 hours of unseen footage would do wonders for them for the foreseeable future. My guess is that TW will want a boat load of cash for the footage.


have you thought that, perhaps, EPE are interested either?

We are presuming that warner thinks it will cost too much money to restore and release this material to make it financially viable considering how many units they think will be sold.

Right?

So YOU think it will be financially viable for EPE not only to restore and release the material but also to BUY it off Warner as well?

Where is the logic in that? It would cost EPE MORE to put this material out than Warner. Not only would they have to BUY the material from Warner, they would also have to outsource the restoration of the film because they wouldn't have the resources to do it inhouse. Which then means the restoration would cost more for them than Warner because there is going to be a third part involved. And just because EPE puts the material out doesn't mean that any more will be sold.

Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!



And that's that.

The myth that the EOT outtakes would do so much better if they went to EPE can finally be put to rest.


I know for a fact that E.P.E. wants this footage. Let's just leave it at that.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:42 pm

Why would they not want it?

But do they want to pay through the nose for it? Did you not read Peter's post? In the current situation, there is no reason to believe EPE would be more successful at an EOT release than Turner given the financial limitations.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:51 pm

Justin wrote:Why would they not want it?

But do they want to pay through the nose for it? Did you not read Peter's post? In the current situation, there is no reason to believe EPE would be more successful at an EOT release than Turner given the financial limitations.


Yes I did read it and there's some truth and some false to it. For one thing, it would not cost as much to restore the footage as some are assuming. Especially if E.P.E. were to have their own production company, which they just may soon have (I'll leave that one for another time) and had the funding to back it, which they now do with Apollo as their new owners and Core Media as their parent company. That does not mean that E.P.E will soon have these tapes in their possession. As I said yesterday, I'm fearful that we may never see these outtakes commercially released in our lifetime. I could be wrong. But if they do, it's because E.P,E. was able to obtain them through a buyout. Time-Warner has no plans to release these publicly and are just sitting on them as if they do not even exist.

And there's a BIG reason to believe that Elvis On Tour outtakes (not the movie) would be much more profitable through E.P.E. productions than through TW. Why? Because E.P.E. caters solely to the Elvis fanbase and could sell it both through their website and shops at Graceland as well as through retail stores worldwide. TW would have to spend more money just promoting it than they would restoring the footage just to make a profit.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:31 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:
Justin wrote:Why would they not want it?

But do they want to pay through the nose for it? Did you not read Peter's post? In the current situation, there is no reason to believe EPE would be more successful at an EOT release than Turner given the financial limitations.


Yes I did read it and there's some truth and some false to it. For one thing, it would not cost as much to restore the footage as some are assuming. Especially if E.P.E. were to have their own production company, which they just may soon have (I'll leave that one for another time) and had the funding to back it, which they now do with Apollo as their new owners and Core Media as their parent company. That does not mean that E.P.E will soon have these tapes in their possession. As I said yesterday, I'm fearful that we may never see these outtakes commercially released in our lifetime. I could be wrong. But if they do, it's because E.P,E. was able to obtain them through a buyout. Time-Warner has no plans to release these publicly and are just sitting on them as if they do not even exist.

And there's a BIG reason to believe that Elvis On Tour outtakes (not the movie) would be much more profitable through E.P.E. productions than through TW. Why? Because E.P.E. caters solely to the Elvis fanbase and could sell it both through their website and shops at Graceland as well as through retail stores worldwide. TW would have to spend more money just promoting it than they would restoring the footage just to make a profit.


If the only people buying it are Elvis fans, it warner would not need to publicise it or promote it - the news reaches us fans very quickly via the web no matter who puts out the material. All they need is a couple of press releases and the news would arrive on forums and emails to all Elvis fans on the web...and it would cost virtually nothing.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:35 pm

I received this note in 2007 from an executive at WB:

We are indeed familiar with, and have noted, all of our Elvis footage, different versions, etc. There is a decided plan as to how to release what, and when (which is why we still are holding back ELVIS ON TOUR, etc.). Everything has been carefully inventoried and researched.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:39 pm

HoneyTalkNelson wrote:I received this note in 2007 from an executive at WB:

We are indeed familiar with, and have noted, all of our Elvis footage, different versions, etc. There is a decided plan as to how to release what, and when (which is why we still are holding back ELVIS ON TOUR, etc.). Everything has been carefully inventoried and researched.


...and in 2010 we saw the release of "Elvis On Tour" as a single DVD and butchered intro.

And that's the way it was.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:52 pm

elvis 1972 cooking now
it's right time for releasing lost performances as a DVD and Blu Ray
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1PsOyMbJlW93HatWZuLONcspFskccjJh

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:43 am

Erhan wrote:it's right time for releasing lost performances as a DVD and Blu Ray



Not gonna happen.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:58 am

Erhan wrote:elvis 1972 cooking now
it's right time for releasing lost performances as a DVD and Blu Ray
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1PsOyMbJlW93HatWZuLONcspFskccjJh


Considering that part of the factor here is money and the amount of sales, people giving away content for free on youtube or downloads isn't really helping the cause!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:19 am

i really not understand why the have a petition about his grave not to sell about a few weeks ago and not about on tour and ttwwi....if all fanclubs websites etc will work together and start a petition at least you will get an response /answer.......if that will not going to happen you dont hear nothing for the next 20 years

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:10 am

ep2 wrote:i really not understand why the have a petition about his grave not to sell about a few weeks ago and not about on tour and ttwwi....if all fanclubs websites etc will work together and start a petition at least you will get an response /answer.......if that will not going to happen you dont hear nothing for the next 20 years


Are you going to ask fans to have a whip round to provide the money to do the work as well? Just how much has to be written about EOT before fans actually let it sink in that it is not financially viable.

Reality check. According to TCM, currently 3.6% of all films in their database are currently available on dvd in the USA. While those figures might not be totally accurate (especially as it probably doesn't include short films), it does give an indication of how lucky we are to have the amount of material available to us as Elvis fans - including 100% of Presley's movie output. We could probably count on one hand the amount of film stars who have 100% of their output on DVD:

Not Sinatra,
not Crosby,
not John Wayne,
not Steve McQueen
not even Alfred Hitchcock.

And yet fans feel they are hard-done-by.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:42 pm

poormadpeter wrote:As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.

Reality check. "Elvis On Tour" is a concert documentary that won a MAJOR award, a Golden Globe. It was the first to not only document what he was currently doing but also his breakthrough in the 1950s, incorporating kinescope TV footage from 1956, which gave the film an added historical pedigree.

poormadpeter wrote:Reality check. According to TCM, currently 3.6% of all films in their database are currently available on dvd in the USA. While those figures might not be totally accurate (especially as it probably doesn't include short films), it does give an indication of how lucky we are to have the amount of material available to us as Elvis fans - including 100% of Presley's movie output. We could probably count on one hand the amount of film stars who have 100% of their output on DVD:

Not Sinatra,
not Crosby,
not John Wayne,
not Steve McQueen
not even Alfred Hitchcock.

And yet fans feel they are hard-done-by.

As I've said before, unlike the tampered-with, official DVD, any proper representation of the MGM film means a fully-restored version of what was seen in theaters in 1972. Until this happens, fans do not have 100% of Presley's movie output.

Again, it is this version of "Elvis On Tour" that shared the 1972 Golden Globe Best Documentary Film award with "Walls of Fire."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walls_of_Fire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_Golden_Globe_Awards#Best_Documentary_Film

The 30th Golden Globe Award ceremony was held on Sunday, January 28, 1973 at the Century Plaza Hotel in Los Angeles. Presley was at the Las Vegas Hilton, in his suite between shows. He was watching from the bathroom when the news broke that "Elvis On Tour" won, and he came hopping out, excited over the honor.

Imagine what an elite DVD label Criterion would do if they got the chance to release a DVD/BluRay of "Elvis On Tour."

The Criterion Collection
http://www.criterion.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Criterion_Collection

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:14 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Reality check. "Elvis On Tour" is a concert documentary that won a MAJOR award, a Golden Globe


A good point. I also agree with what steve in SC wrote.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Off course a multiple DVD deluxe edition could be more profitable if the release would be made by EPE. I think this will be a big hit. Imagine Elvis in red Burning Love suit singing the complete concert in Richmond!!!! All the 4 filmed concerts should be released in their entirety in this Deluxe edition. We will be happy to buy it. Such remarks that will be not profitable are too much pessimistic.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:26 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:


As has been stated earlier, Aloha and the 68 comeback are legendary events. Elvis On Tour is just a concert film. While the TV specials might be of interest to more casual fans and general rock enthusiasts because of their legendary status, Elvis On Tour would not be.


You are strongly overrating the popularity of both the 68 Comeback Special and Aloha with a mainstream audience. In our book as hard core fans maybe yes but according to the general public and certainly people of my age (30 - 40 years of age) that was just another Elvis product - as good or as bad as anything else, depending on whether you like his music.
One must have in interest for Elvis Presley in particular to buy such a set and I think a same effect is possible with EOT or TTWII if marketed right. Image what a press release like "40hrs of new Presley material found and released" would do in media worldwide or "35 years after his death Elvis speaks on camera" (referring to the complete filmed EOT interview). It is all marketing really...

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:14 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost 2 million dollars just to restore the footage That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc. If we take the highest estimate, the restoration of 40 hours would cost 3 million dollars. So let's the put the cost of restoration in the middle: $2.5 million. That is a slight difference from the $40,000 estimate from someone who does not know the true cost of this type of work.

If the film is then going to make it to blu-ray, the cost of that process is a further $200,000 per hour of footage. So, let's say that 6 hours of footage is going on our little boxed set. That's another $1.2 million dollars.

This makes a running total of $3.7 million dollars. This does not include the editing process, manafacture of the DVDs, royalties, artwork, presentation, advertising etc.

But let's be generous and say the entire cost of our project is $4million. Again, a far cry from your estimate of $240,000

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 blu-rays or dvds, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 80,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?

Let's just hope that these REAL figures (and yes, I have checked the estimated costs of restorations with other interviews with archivists), put into perspective what you guys are asking for here.

And let's just reiterate that I am not exaggerating costs here. In 1996, the restoration of Rear Window cost $1.6million. And that was 16 years ago. The projected cost for the seemingly imminent restoration of "Capital Punishment", a 1925 film starring Clara Bow is somewhere around $30,000. But the film is silent (so no audio restoration required) and it last 50 minutes. And we know how bad the condition is of some of the EOT footage just by looking at those raw elements included as an extra in the TTWII double DVD.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:45 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Alexander wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Warner:
Restoration + remastering + production of DVDs = NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE

EPE:
Purchase of the materials from Warner + Outsourcing of Restoration + Remastering + Production of DVD = EVEN MORE NOT FINANCIALLY VIABLE!


I am not so sure of that.

Say, they have 40 hours of EOT to release and need USD 1,000 per hour for restoration. That's USD 40,000 for restoration. Apart from that they make USD 150,000 available for editing, that adds up total costs of USD 190,000 and add to that the amount of USD 50,000 for royalties etcetera and we have spend USD 240,000.

My business plan would be the following:

1. New documentary for television
Create a new hour long documentary situated round the unique interview footage, with added concert and rehearsal footage for television viewing and sell them to a main American channel, as well as the BBC (UK), ZDF (Germany) and other national channels. Such a documentary is in BCC factual genre category 1, this means the BBC pays around USD 64,000 for one hour (tarifs you can find here http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tv/h ... nges.shtml). Sell the viewing rights to at least 3 other channels and production costs more or have been covered. Each extra sale to a channel worldwide would be profit.
Each television season we see dozen of such documentaries about performers who are a lot less historically important and/ or popular and the material is absolutely unique. Released around an anniversary it would be a nice time filler for most stations and price is what is being paid in the market so that would not be too much of a problem.

2. Release the television documentary on DVD
After televised viewing this new documentary is sold to the interested audiences worldwide together with a selection of extra footage at a retail price of USD 14,99 (price Amazon.com of the single disc EOT). Let's assume profit margin for Turner on release is10% and the DVD sells 50,000 copies worldwide. That's another USD 75,000 profit.

3. Release additional series of Elvis 1972 in Concert on DVD
After that Turner starts a series for hardcore Elvis fans: 3 volumes of DVDs with complete concerts (or as complete as it get). They already have restored and edited the material, so this is only a matter of releasing. Say they sell these per volume for the US price of a FTD album at USD 30,- and that they sell an average of 5,000 copies per volume with a profit margin of 25%. For 3 volumes that would add up to be a total of USD 90,000 profit.

4. Finally, Turner releases Elvis On Tour - Deluxe Box Set
To finish it off, they could release a set which includes EOT, the original documentary, the newly released documentary, the complete rehearsals and a nice selection of concert highlights together with a nice booklet and packaging. Priced at USD 70,-. Again they sell 5,000 copies to the fan base, with a profit margin of 25% for Turner. That would make another USD 87,500.

Simple motto is: earn your production investments back on a television product and then milk the fan base dry with several releases to maximize profit. This way you do not need to sell high volumes on the main 'general public' market. I think most of us are happily 'milked' off their money if the above scenario became reality. It is all been done before. Sony does it all the time :wink: All I want to make clear is that with little creativity a realistic business model can be design for the EOT and TTWII footage. But it all starts out with the intention to release it and make money out of it.


Your figures show exactly why people do not understand the situation here. Your figure is $1000 per hour of film. Look at the reality in this quote from Robert Gitt from the UCLA film archive:

"A black and white feature film that is about 90-120 minutes long will cost $30,000-$40,000 to restore. A technicolour film would cost between $100,000 and $150,000.

So, let's assume there is 40 hours as you say in the archive, and let's take Gitt's lowest estimate which is $100,000 per 2 hours of colour footage. That means the costs would be 50 times what you are suggesting. This means it would cost $2 million dollars just to restore the footage. That is a far different figure than the cost of $200,000 you are suggesting. And that is without the editing process etc.

Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 DVDs, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 40,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?


it is funny: if it comes to film no-one understands it but you. You are starting to be a second Doc around here.
Film restoration clearly comes in prices, qualities, use of techniques in relation of the platform screening is intended and efficiency and obviously differ in regards to age and damage.

Turner owns the right to Harum Scarum, which was restored and released to DVD. Did you really think restoration costs would be $100,000 for such a vehicle? And then sell it in retail for USD 8? I know Spartakus was restored at USD 5494 per minute but is that same treatment required for EOT?

poormadpeter wrote: Does anyone on this board really think that an Elvis On Tour boxed set of, say, 3 DVDs, costing $50 a throw is going to sell 40,000 units in order to recoup the costs of just the film restoration? Really?


Did anyone in 1992 think that an expensive box set with 50s hits could sell 2 times platinum in regular retail? One never makes any money with saying things can not be done.