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Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:07 am

TCK_KING wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:It is all about the money, without a doubt. However, one factor may affect the other. If the redux of That's The Way It Is couldn't make money, or find an audience, then how is Elvis On Tour going to buck that trend. I saw the SE of TTWII in the cinema in the UK - and I was the only one there. Literally. Yes, TTWII SE was flawed, quite heavily flawed I would say, but considering Elvis fans would have bought the DVD anyway just to have the "new" footage, one can safely assume that there is little or no money in this kind of venture, or this kind of footage when it comes to Elvis. Some would argue that Aloha and the 68 Comeback sold very well on DVD - but these were legendary television events, where TTWII was not.

Bearing this in mind, if a healthy, slim, vibrant Elvis in TTWII can't make money, then the thinking must be that a slightly bloated, pale Elvis in EOT wouldn't stand a hope. We must also remember that EOT is a much darker film than TTWII, showing as it does a great deal of the downsides of Elvis's fame and the claustrophia he must have felt when he literally had to run from the stage to the waiting car to avoid being ripped to shreds. TTWII is about Elvis the artist, whereas EOT is much more about Elvis the man and the trappings of fame. It's a grainier film, a darker film, even a vaguely disturbing film when it comes to fan behaviour. I've been hard on it in the past, but actually liked it more than I thought when I rewatched it recently. But, it's not necessarily a film that appeals to people outside the fandom anymore than TTWII does in todays market.

We need to put all of this in perspective. With Warner, Sony and now Universal using burn on demand DVDs for their back catalogue more and more, we are extremely lucky to have Presley's films on factory made silver discs. The fact that many better, more highly regarded films are only being produced through archive series seems almost ludicrous when you can go into a store and buy a copy of Clambake but not Gaslight.

And yes, restoring film and going through archives of dismissed material costs a fortune. Warner are committed to restoring and transferring all of the films in their vaults over the coming years. They have pledged to release either on factory discs or through burn on demand DVDs every single title in their vaults over the next decade. This is something that no other studio has come anywhere close to promising. And this isn't a new thing. Warner/Turner have been looking after their films better than any other major studio for at least three decades now, and they should be applauded for doing so.

The fact that EOT is towards the middle or low end of their list when it comes to preparing and releasing extra materials is unfortunate but something we are going to have to live with. 5000 fans buying a Blu-ray boxed set of EOT material isn't going to come close to paying for the work that would have to go into preparing that material. Warner has its heart in the right place with regards to film preservation, but in the current climate it simply cannot afford to invest money in projects such as this which are, for want of a better term, appealing only to the wet dreams of diehard fans.


Elvis' appeal globally has significantly grown since 2001. His fanbase is getting younger, not older. Which is normally not the case for a dead celebrity as time passes. I'm willing to bet that if TTWII Special Edition came out today to theaters it would draw an impressive crowd. Just as Elvis On Tour did here in the states a few years ago.


You are living in a fantasy world I`m afraid.


No, I am living in reality. Just look at the numbers at Graceland annually. In 2000 they were bringing in on average between 500,000-600,000 a year. They will surpass the 700,000 mark for this year alone! More young adults are visiting Graceland on a daily basis. And this is a 100% FACT! When I was last at Graceland this year there were more teenagers and children and young families than there were senior citizens or middle aged visitors. During Elvis Week there were ALOT of young fans. I would say about half of the visitors for the events that I saw were under the age of 40. That means they were 5 or younger when he passed.

Look at all the young adults who took in the Elvis In Concert show, and the recent highly successful Elvis Experience in Brazil? His music is reaching a younger audience also. You could not even find Elvis on the pop music charts prior to 2002. Today, practically every new Presley release charts. An Afternoon In The Garden, live concert album originally released back in 1997, re-entered the charts and spent an entire year on the Billboard Top 200 charts in 2011. Even peaking at around #28. When was the last time you saw Ricky Nelson, Buddy Holly, or any other major act from Elvis' time have re-issues to re-chart that well?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:58 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
TCK_KING wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:It is all about the money, without a doubt. However, one factor may affect the other. If the redux of That's The Way It Is couldn't make money, or find an audience, then how is Elvis On Tour going to buck that trend. I saw the SE of TTWII in the cinema in the UK - and I was the only one there. Literally. Yes, TTWII SE was flawed, quite heavily flawed I would say, but considering Elvis fans would have bought the DVD anyway just to have the "new" footage, one can safely assume that there is little or no money in this kind of venture, or this kind of footage when it comes to Elvis. Some would argue that Aloha and the 68 Comeback sold very well on DVD - but these were legendary television events, where TTWII was not.

Bearing this in mind, if a healthy, slim, vibrant Elvis in TTWII can't make money, then the thinking must be that a slightly bloated, pale Elvis in EOT wouldn't stand a hope. We must also remember that EOT is a much darker film than TTWII, showing as it does a great deal of the downsides of Elvis's fame and the claustrophia he must have felt when he literally had to run from the stage to the waiting car to avoid being ripped to shreds. TTWII is about Elvis the artist, whereas EOT is much more about Elvis the man and the trappings of fame. It's a grainier film, a darker film, even a vaguely disturbing film when it comes to fan behaviour. I've been hard on it in the past, but actually liked it more than I thought when I rewatched it recently. But, it's not necessarily a film that appeals to people outside the fandom anymore than TTWII does in todays market.

We need to put all of this in perspective. With Warner, Sony and now Universal using burn on demand DVDs for their back catalogue more and more, we are extremely lucky to have Presley's films on factory made silver discs. The fact that many better, more highly regarded films are only being produced through archive series seems almost ludicrous when you can go into a store and buy a copy of Clambake but not Gaslight.

And yes, restoring film and going through archives of dismissed material costs a fortune. Warner are committed to restoring and transferring all of the films in their vaults over the coming years. They have pledged to release either on factory discs or through burn on demand DVDs every single title in their vaults over the next decade. This is something that no other studio has come anywhere close to promising. And this isn't a new thing. Warner/Turner have been looking after their films better than any other major studio for at least three decades now, and they should be applauded for doing so.

The fact that EOT is towards the middle or low end of their list when it comes to preparing and releasing extra materials is unfortunate but something we are going to have to live with. 5000 fans buying a Blu-ray boxed set of EOT material isn't going to come close to paying for the work that would have to go into preparing that material. Warner has its heart in the right place with regards to film preservation, but in the current climate it simply cannot afford to invest money in projects such as this which are, for want of a better term, appealing only to the wet dreams of diehard fans.


Elvis' appeal globally has significantly grown since 2001. His fanbase is getting younger, not older. Which is normally not the case for a dead celebrity as time passes. I'm willing to bet that if TTWII Special Edition came out today to theaters it would draw an impressive crowd. Just as Elvis On Tour did here in the states a few years ago.


You are living in a fantasy world I`m afraid.


No, I am living in reality. Just look at the numbers at Graceland annually. In 2000 they were bringing in on average between 500,000-600,000 a year. They will surpass the 700,000 mark for this year alone! More young adults are visiting Graceland on a daily basis. And this is a 100% FACT! When I was last at Graceland this year there were more teenagers and children and young families than there were senior citizens or middle aged visitors. During Elvis Week there were ALOT of young fans. I would say about half of the visitors for the events that I saw were under the age of 40. That means they were 5 or younger when he passed.

Look at all the young adults who took in the Elvis In Concert show, and the recent highly successful Elvis Experience in Brazil? His music is reaching a younger audience also. You could not even find Elvis on the pop music charts prior to 2002. Today, practically every new Presley release charts. An Afternoon In The Garden, live concert album originally released back in 1997, re-entered the charts and spent an entire year on the Billboard Top 200 charts in 2011. Even peaking at around #28. When was the last time you saw Ricky Nelson, Buddy Holly, or any other major act from Elvis' time have re-issues to re-chart that well?


It reached the charts again because it was cheap. No other reason.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:00 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
samses wrote:I spoke to a friend of mine about this today. He works at a Swedish Television company. I asked him why the market is flooded with DVDs with 1960´s material from artists like the Who when there is nothing coming out of the Elvis stuff in the vaults. He told me that it´s extremely expensive to work with footage on fim compared to footage on videotape. TTWII and EOT were shot with many film cameras which is not the case for a lot of the stuff that has been released with other artist during the last years. My friend is of the opinion that TTWII SE is probably the best concert film ever if you talk picture quality. He also said that to make ONE minute of film would cost more than the whole restoration of Aloha (which was videorecorded).



Money should not be an issue. Warner is raking in video sales revenue by the boatload. Personally, I think it's the lackluster attitude of the ignoramus heads at Warner who simply are not Elvis fans to begin with. If there's a will, there's always a way, IMHO.


Did you actually read anything I wrote about Warner's restoration programme - the biggest and most ambitious of any Hollywood studio. To suggest that the heads of Warner are idiots because they don't release footage YOU want is nothing more than a juvenile throwing of toys out of the pram. Alot of people on these boards could do with both getting a reality check and growing up.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:36 am

poormadpeter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
samses wrote:I spoke to a friend of mine about this today. He works at a Swedish Television company. I asked him why the market is flooded with DVDs with 1960´s material from artists like the Who when there is nothing coming out of the Elvis stuff in the vaults. He told me that it´s extremely expensive to work with footage on fim compared to footage on videotape. TTWII and EOT were shot with many film cameras which is not the case for a lot of the stuff that has been released with other artist during the last years. My friend is of the opinion that TTWII SE is probably the best concert film ever if you talk picture quality. He also said that to make ONE minute of film would cost more than the whole restoration of Aloha (which was videorecorded).



Money should not be an issue. Warner is raking in video sales revenue by the boatload. Personally, I think it's the lackluster attitude of the ignoramus heads at Warner who simply are not Elvis fans to begin with. If there's a will, there's always a way, IMHO.


Did you actually read anything I wrote about Warner's restoration programme - the biggest and most ambitious of any Hollywood studio. To suggest that the heads of Warner are idiots because they don't release footage YOU want is nothing more than a juvenile throwing of toys out of the pram. Alot of people on these boards could do with both getting a reality check and growing up.


What a lame explanation. And false on top of that.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:46 am

jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:22 am

Best post I've seen here in a LONG time.

Amen!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:30 am

EPE should have it licensed from Warner and do the project. EPE knows the value of this footage better than Warner and ought to be more willing to take the financial risk for puttin out the unreleased stuff.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:22 am

poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

I've made many of the same points as you regarding this debate on many topics, although you vastly understate the amount of unreleased footage out there.

However ,,,

If I had fallen for Presley at, say, 15 in 1956, and followed his career ever since, that would put me at 71 years old right now.

And I would suspect that my window for enjoying some of the unreleased material we all know about is, at most, ten years.

And I would be very unhappy to know that my 5 decades of support via records, books, posters, CDs, VHS tapes, DVDs live concerts -- and more -- is meaningless to people running the show at Time-Warner.

How do we know there would be nothing "new" in experiencing this stuff? The fact is, we cannot state that with absolute authority.

Oh, well.

Who gives a sh*t about first- or second-generation fans, eh?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:31 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

I've made many of the same points as you regarding this debate on many topics, although you vastly understate the amount of unreleased footage out there.

However ,,,

If I had fallen for Presley at, say, 15 in 1956, and followed his career ever since, that would put me at 71 years old right now.

And I would suspect that my window for enjoying some of the unreleased material we all know about is, at most, ten years.

And I would be very unhappy to know that my 5 decades of support via records, books, posters, CDs, VHS tapes, DVDs live concerts -- and more -- is meaningless to people running the show at Time-Warner.

How do we know there would be nothing "new" in experiencing this stuff? The fact is, we cannot state that with absolute authority.

Oh, well.

Who gives a sh*t about first- or second-generation fans, eh?


They don't have a duty to present us with anything. Just because something is in the vault doesn't mean that we should be getting to see it. No other artists fans have been as lucky as we have at seeing unreleased footage. Just because a fan doesn't get to see the on tour material doesn't mean he has been hard done by or has anything to moan about. Especially when compared to the fans of other artists.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:44 am

From someone who saw 2 shows during the filming of EOT Elvis looked great!! He was tanned and not PALE!. The reason he looks pale in EOT is the stage lighting. Look at some of the backstage footage right before he comes on stage, he is really tanned and not pale. He was also very slim. That is the way I remember him during EOT.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:49 am

an interesting (tho not original topic)
some great replys, poor mad peter & as much as i hate to say it but 'the dr' is basically right

elvis WAS singing superb on that spring tour and u only have to watch 'BRIDGE' from greensboro to realise that !

BUT
to a non fan, warner exec or just an average person = hes not on top form (tho hes not far from it VOCALLY)
a few months ago i watched the blu-ray with an ex G/F and she couldnt believe how, not only pale + bloated (& full of demoral) his face looked but how much he just looked like an impersonator !
more so during the rehearsal footage !

he looked AMAZING and totall superb (& totally ELVIS) in the MSG conference/footage but he DIDNT look tthat good at all in april!

even when he gets off the jet (during seperate ways) theres kinda a dark lonliness about it that doesnt bode well!!!

personally i love 'ON TOUR' & i truly believe there is WAY more than 1/2 dozen hrs of footage , in fact i believe theres AT LEAST 30+hrs of footage but THAT boat has now sailed & as stated he WASNT in great shape (despite being very slim & in superb voice)

TTWII was a major screw-up full stop , it NEVER should have been on TCM B4 dvd release !!!!! but there was no depressive darkness to it!

im convinced now that we will NEVER get a deluxe on tour box-set & if we did, how many units would it really sell in 2013 ??

its damn sad that live footage of the greatest selling & greatest singer of all time just sits on a shelf but that the ITWII & shall remain i fear

p/s GREAT post 'steve in SC' and u lucky SOB ! :)

but i do agree the film does kinda come across as dark to an average/non fan, espec compared to TTWII! and doesnt appeal to none than the HARDCORE fan !
sad but true

it a shame, it SHOULD all be out there - the poor man made enuff & still does $$$$$ for WB/EPE/BMG & everyone else

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:22 am

Z0S0 wrote:an interesting (tho not original topic)
some great replys, poor mad peter & as much as i hate to say it but 'the dr' is basically right

elvis WAS singing superb on that spring tour and u only have to watch 'BRIDGE' from greensboro to realise that !

BUT
to a non fan, warner exec or just an average person = hes not on top form (tho hes not far from it VOCALLY)
a few months ago i watched the blu-ray with an ex G/F and she couldnt believe how, not only pale + bloated (& full of demoral) his face looked but how much he just looked like an impersonator !
more so during the rehearsal footage !

he looked AMAZING and totall superb (& totally ELVIS) in the MSG conference/footage but he DIDNT look tthat good at all in april!

even when he gets off the jet (during seperate ways) theres kinda a dark lonliness about it that doesnt bode well!!!

personally i love 'ON TOUR' & i truly believe there is WAY more than 1/2 dozen hrs of footage , in fact i believe theres AT LEAST 30+hrs of footage but THAT boat has now sailed & as stated he WASNT in great shape (despite being very slim & in superb voice)

TTWII was a major screw-up full stop , it NEVER should have been on TCM B4 dvd release !!!!! but there was no depressive darkness to it!

im convinced now that we will NEVER get a deluxe on tour box-set & if we did, how many units would it really sell in 2013 ??

its damn sad that live footage of the greatest selling & greatest singer of all time just sits on a shelf but that the ITWII & shall remain i fear

p/s GREAT post 'steve in SC' and u lucky SOB ! :)

but i do agree the film does kinda come across as dark to an average/non fan, espec compared to TTWII! and doesnt appeal to none than the HARDCORE fan !
sad but true

it a shame, it SHOULD all be out there - the poor man made enuff & still does $$$$$ for WB/EPE/BMG & everyone else


yeah, he still does make $, but the majority that he makes is on ready made goods, not on expensive restoration projects.

As for my comments about "no surprises", I meant that the shows are all pretty similar to each other in the great scheme of things. there are no surprises in the set lists, and we know exactly what each show sounds like as we have already heard them on bootlegs. it's not like these are recordings from a tour we know nothing about, and with songs not included in the original film or lost performances video. it is simply more of the same. yes, seeing a complete show would be great. of course it would. but unless someone here wants to fund the project, it ain't going to happen. and while the tcm screening of ttwii was an odd choice, i'm not sure it would have sold that many more units had it not been on tv. After all, many of us buy a dvd of a tv show after it has been shown on tv, or of a film just a couple of months after we see it at the cinema - why not do the same with EOT? The answer there is that only the fans cared.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:11 am

Right now I just want the damn On Tour movie presented in its original format on BluRay, it hasn't happened yet!

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:20 am

poormadpeter wrote:They don't have a duty to present us with anything.

You already made that point, and my post did not state in any way that a corporation has "a duty" to oblige the fans.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:31 am

samses wrote:EPE should have it licensed from Warner and do the project. EPE knows the value of this footage better than Warner and ought to be more willing to take the financial risk for puttin out the unreleased stuff.


I completely agree with you. I think the only way we will ever see the unreleased outtakes commercially released will be if E.P.E. buys them from Time Warner. And unless TW is willing to part with them, then that's not happening anytime soon. We're not getting any younger and I hate to say this but I think the bootleg releases is all we will ever get in our lifetime. :(

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:25 pm

They should release it in cooperation with Sony just like the MSG set. I think this set will sell very well as the price is very good and the quality of the cds combined with the unreleased footage is just fantastic.

It even seems not so logical to release the MSG set and not an On Tour set because nothing of the on tour audio was ever released properly, (soundtrack or boxset) and the dvdrelease certainly is not spectacular as could be. I understand Time Warner that its expensive to do, but they also should team up with people who can do the job for them. Just like FTD is using people/fans who have knowledge and understand like no-one else how things should be done.

Maybe Sony could take the lead in this and borrow the footage or buy the rights for a release from Sony and do a release like the MSG for christmas 2013! Maybe i'm being naieve, i'm just a graphical designer with no idea of (SONY / Time Warner)business. :?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:41 pm

nicolaas wrote:i'm just a graphical designer with no idea of (SONY / Time Warner)business. :?


And that's the problem here. People are looking at it from a personal point of view rather than a business point of view, in the same way that fans of a TV show start shouting and screaming when it gets cancelled due to a lack of viewing figures. But the bigger the viewing figures, the bigger the advertising revenue. MSG is more of a viable product because it was an event, but Elvis on Tour was not. Warner is not going to lend the material to another company because Warner is still making money from it via the original EOT film.

As for the doc, you quite clearly implied that you did see it as a duty for Warner to release the footage, or at least the fans had earned the right to it.

In 2010 MGM, one of the biggest and greatest studios in Hollywood, was filing for bankruptcy. A company such as Warner (who owns the rights to pre-1986 MGM), is not going to risk landing itself in financial trouble by starting to partake in loss-making ventures to please fans. If they did it for Elvis on Tour, then Sinatra fans would start lobbying to see the unseen footage from Carousel. "Oh, we'll do it for you as a favour as you have been a fan since 1956" isn't ever to going to be a sentence we hear from Warner or any other studio or music label that doesn't want to commit suicide.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:02 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
nicolaas wrote:i'm just a graphical designer with no idea of (SONY / Time Warner)business. :?


And that's the problem here. People are looking at it from a personal point of view rather than a business point of view, in the same way that fans of a TV show start shouting and screaming when it gets cancelled due to a lack of viewing figures. But the bigger the viewing figures, the bigger the advertising revenue. MSG is more of a viable product because it was an event, but Elvis on Tour was not. Warner is not going to lend the material to another company because Warner is still making money from it via the original EOT film.

As for the doc, you quite clearly implied that you did see it as a duty for Warner to release the footage, or at least the fans had earned the right to it.

In 2010 MGM, one of the biggest and greatest studios in Hollywood, was filing for bankruptcy. A company such as Warner (who owns the rights to pre-1986 MGM), is not going to risk landing itself in financial trouble by starting to partake in loss-making ventures to please fans. If they did it for Elvis on Tour, then Sinatra fans would start lobbying to see the unseen footage from Carousel. "Oh, we'll do it for you as a favour as you have been a fan since 1956" isn't ever to going to be a sentence we hear from Warner or any other studio or music label that doesn't want to commit suicide.



No, but that's the point I tried to make. The big companies will never start making products with great risk if not selling well, specially in these days. So the only option to ever get the footage is a team like FTD stepping in and then joining with whatever party holding interesting footage. Maybe MRS, JAT or an ole bootlegger in rest can step in and do something with it (within the legal rules) so FTD continu their great work/releases?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:17 pm

the easiest thing to do is give up all hope of ever seeing the outtakes ,
Last edited by keninlincs on Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:31 pm

jak wrote:Unfortunately it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow, we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.

Agreed... and I believe when jak says "gold mine" he means it figuratively.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:35 pm

I think that most fans that is active here and on other Elvis boards are living in a Elvis
bubble.....me included.
Elvis is very precent in our lives so maybe we imagine that he is in others as well.
The hardcore fans that are waiting and hoping for a "on tour-se" version isnt rising....

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:53 pm

nicolaas wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
nicolaas wrote:i'm just a graphical designer with no idea of (SONY / Time Warner)business. :?


And that's the problem here. People are looking at it from a personal point of view rather than a business point of view, in the same way that fans of a TV show start shouting and screaming when it gets cancelled due to a lack of viewing figures. But the bigger the viewing figures, the bigger the advertising revenue. MSG is more of a viable product because it was an event, but Elvis on Tour was not. Warner is not going to lend the material to another company because Warner is still making money from it via the original EOT film.

As for the doc, you quite clearly implied that you did see it as a duty for Warner to release the footage, or at least the fans had earned the right to it.

In 2010 MGM, one of the biggest and greatest studios in Hollywood, was filing for bankruptcy. A company such as Warner (who owns the rights to pre-1986 MGM), is not going to risk landing itself in financial trouble by starting to partake in loss-making ventures to please fans. If they did it for Elvis on Tour, then Sinatra fans would start lobbying to see the unseen footage from Carousel. "Oh, we'll do it for you as a favour as you have been a fan since 1956" isn't ever to going to be a sentence we hear from Warner or any other studio or music label that doesn't want to commit suicide.



No, but that's the point I tried to make. The big companies will never start making products with great risk if not selling well, specially in these days. So the only option to ever get the footage is a team like FTD stepping in and then joining with whatever party holding interesting footage. Maybe MRS, JAT or an ole bootlegger in rest can step in and do something with it (within the legal rules) so FTD continu their great work/releases?


The material will remain under copyright to Warner until at least 2067.

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:02 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

people are never satisfied with what they have. i want more too, just like everyone else. but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate what we have. admit it, you would like to see more stuff to be released as well?

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:10 pm

Maybe, Turner got scared after disappointing sale for TTWII SE, but around the time it was released other Elvis product sold quite well. Briann Quinn posted recent RIAA DVD Certifications on this forum in a different thread, which shows other Elvis product sold remarkably well.

Note: MP = Multi-platinum = 200,000 copies

Elvis 68 Comeback - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (De-Luxe-Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

Aloha From Hawaii - (Special Edition) (2XMP) (DVD)

Elvis 68 Comeback Special (De-Luxe Edition) (4XMP) (DVD)

I think a lot depends on presentation and marketing. DeLuxe box sets of TTWII en EOT when sold half the amount of the Comeback 68 and Aloha boxes could still make very profitable releases. I think somebody needs to tell them... :wink:

Re: Time Warner and Elvis On Tour

Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:27 pm

Elvisgirl wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
jak wrote:Unfortunatey it's always about the money. If the studio thought the On Tour footage was a cash cow,we would have had it already I think. To be honest most fans are just casual fans anyway. Most of them wouldn't even get to excited about any footage being released. The enthusiasm we share here on the board doesn't spill over to everybody else Im afraid. Lets see how the MSG project does. Maybe if it sells well it could have a positive impact in regards to Warner taking another look at the footage they have. It's hard to take knowing what a gold mine is just stored away.


Yeah, but as you say it's a goldmine to us, but it doesn't translate into dollar bills. And as I've stated before on these boards, the unseen footage of this film cannot be seen with the same historical importance as hundreds of other films that Warner and other studios have to deal with. It's not like the actual finished film has been left to rot - yes, it's missing the opening number on dvd at the moment, but the remaining 88 minutes or so are available to us and in damn fine quality too. What's more, the majority of the unseen footage isn't going to present us with something new, or a part of Elvis we haven't seen before. It's simply more of the same. And while that is very nice, it doesn't necessarily make it important.

Elvis fans forget how damn lucky we are. We have a collectors label which, for all its faults and niggles and errors and technical glitches, has presented us with well over 100 releases adding up to around 250 hours of mostly new material in the last decade or so. Thanks to the original album series and the recent budget 20cd set, virtually every Elvis original album is available at retail level (and hopefully those not available will be reissued again soon). Every single film made by Elvis is available to us in good or better editions. We have special editions of Viva Las Vegas and Jailhouse Rock. We have two versions of TTWII. Two classy boxed sets covering 1956 and Sun respectively have been thrown at us in recent years. The two TV specials are available to us in deluxe editions. And now the MSG album is finally getting the makeover it needs.

And yet people insist on bitching and moaning because we don't have a couple of concerts from a relatively average 1972 tour and an awful TV special from 1977.

I may be one of the people who moan about the lack of proof reading and quality control at FTD, and I may not view Ernst as a saint, but for crying out loud we are bloody lucky to have what we have. Let's just take stock, be thankful and quit the crying in our beer for the half a dozen hours of footage we don't have.

people are never satisfied with what they have. i want more too, just like everyone else. but that doesn't mean i don't appreciate what we have. admit it, you would like to see more stuff to be released as well?


Yes, providing it's interesting. But I am getting to the stage where I am picky. Am I interested in a new routine soundboard concert? Not really. I'll play it once and stick it on a shelf never to be played again. Am I desparate to hear the outtakes of Kissin Cousins? Nope. We have so much now that very little would actually provide us with anything new.

Would I be happy to see the Elvis On Tour concerts get a DVD or CD release? Of course I would as we don't have all that much video footage and so more would be welcome. But I have no illusions that it would give us something completely different to what we already have and know. And it should also be remembered that Turner/Warner have already raided the archives twice for these concert documentaries, first for Lost performances, and then again for TTWII SE. So, it's not like we have been deprived of outtakes.

And Warner are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They provided some raw quality footage on the 2DVD set of TTWII and people moaned because it looked bad. But if it's not financially viable to restore the footage, what are they to do? Release it and get moaned at for the quality? Or not release it at all?

Personally, if Warner are ever going to do an archive project on Presley then I hope they manage to combine the On Tour material with something such as a feature length quality documentary on Elvis's time at MGM, including footage of outtakes, the songs cut from the films and so on. We already have Presley concerts on DVD. Backstage footage of Elvis on set, taking direction, early takes of scenes and the lost scenes from the films are things that we have never seen at all. Yes, we have the home movies, but those don't show Elvis applying his craft. An On Tour concert would add nothing new to the Elvis story, whereas outtakes etc from the movies and seeing how Elvis actually worked on a film set would add something completely new. We know from FTD how Elvis worked in the recording studio, but how he worked in the film studio is something we don't know at all other than from accounts from others.

But, again, it is a project I would like to see. It doesn't mean I think it will ever be financially viable.