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Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:52 am

so because you've read all the books, you think you know it all...has it ever occurred to you that people might not always tell the truth? i refuse to read any books written about elvis, and i don't hestitate to question if what people have said about him is completely true. the thing is, there have been written and said so many different things about him, i don't know what to believe. so i choose to not believe any of it. but another reason is also that if i wanted his story told, i wanted it to be told by himself. and since that can never happen, i don't want it told by anyone else. even someone close to a celebrity might lie, when telling their story after they've passed away. i'm not saying that everyone who was close to elvis lied, because i don't know if they did (well, someone must have lied, because there have been said so many different things). and honestly i don't care. because even if someone told his story 100% correct, i wouldn't want to read it, because as i said, i wanted it told by elvis himself, and that can never happen. yes, he did take drugs, that i know. that's all i know, and that's all i need and want to know. don't tell me to wake up just because i don't believe everything i read/hear. maybe you're the one who should wake up if you believe everything you read/hear

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:00 am

ignorance is bliss i guess !

i give up, dont claim to be an expert though when you havnt read the details, anyone who knows the full story knows that he was on a very dangerous path by sept 1970

its not me that needs to wake-up, it breaks my heart to know exactly how bad he/it got !

u can choose to think or believe what-ever you want but just watch the OMAHA footage, that tells me everything i need to know, theres no waking up to be done when & IF u can actually sit thru it, personally i cant !

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:32 am

i never claimed to be an expert. And dont call me ignorant just beacuse you dont agree with me

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:39 am

Ignorance is not bliss. It never is - not in the larger sense of deliberately twisting history to cover something up. (And that started almost immediately after he died.) It's like being on a road, trying to get somewhere, without a map (or a digital device, these days). You'd be lost. Might enjoy the scenery, but you'd never get where you need to go.

To just "not read" anything, and then "not believe" anything (that you haven't read), but perhaps "Elvis himself" is not exactly consistent with research methods, detective work of any kind, or any kind of fact-finding I've ever heard of.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: "You will not apply my precept," he said, shaking his head. "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth? We know that he did not come through the door, the window, or the chimney. We also know that he could not have been concealed in the room, as there is no concealment possible. When, then, did he come?"
The Sign of the Four, ch. 6 (1890)
Sherlock Holmes in The Sign of the Four (Doubleday p. 111)


But, to each his or her own. Just so long as the wider public is made aware, that's really all that matters. And there ARE journalists, writers, right here on this board, who might be able to get the truth out. For the benefit of others. Elvis is not the only person who ever lived, and died, you know. There are others who would benefit if the lies were revealed for what they are. That's what I care about.

rjm ("Ignorant" is not an insult; it is a description; in this case, a self-description - with pride.
"ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/
Adjective:
Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".
)

P.S. -- Listen to what this guy has to say about Elvis' situation that led to his death. And LISTEN TO THE SONG! (Taken from a relevant Chuck Berry song, that riffs off of a song that Elvis also sang.)

phpBB [video]



The uploader transcribed his comments; here is the relevant passage:

YouTube Uploader, quoting Bruce Springsteen wrote:"This is a song I wrote I guess a little while after a friend of mine called me and told me that he'd died...and trying to understand how...how somebody that seemed like they had so much, was filled with so much life...and so much spirit...could've seemed like he got so cheated in the end , something happened, something happened, something went wrong.... you know...but uh, I guess in America a dream that comes true can be a dangerous thing..."

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:29 am

rjm wrote:To just "not read" anything, and then "not believe" anything (that you haven't read), but perhaps "Elvis himself" is not exactly consistent with research methods, detective work of any kind, or any kind of fact-finding I've ever heard of.

why are you talking about detective work and research? i never said anything about doing detective work. i thought i made it clear what i need/want to know/not know

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:45 am

rjm wrote:
To just "not read" anything, and then "not believe" anything (that you haven't read), but perhaps "Elvis himself" is not exactly consistent with research methods, detective work of any kind, or any kind of fact-finding I've ever heard of.


("Ignorant" is not an insult; it is a description; in this case, a self-description - with pride.
"ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/
Adjective:
Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: .
)




THANKYOU RJM, THAT was my point!

(well both of them to 'elvisgirl') - shes pointing out that u keep posting on a topic you have no knowledge off ! yes its the internet and yes its a free messageboard but still, dont post when u know nothing about the topic!
u obviously refuse to read the books but id suggest 'revelations' and 'careless love' for starters, u think guralnick made millions or had a vested interest in telling the TRUE sad story of those last yrs & the extent of the abuse ???

u think billy smith who at the end was closer & spent more time with elvis at the end made millions or in fact achieved anything in telling the truth to nash - in fact i expect it was crucifying to have to go over it & re-live it for him !

The fact u think hes in great shape in 'on tour' - speaks volumes!

(ever notice the bit when hes left the hotel & heading to the gig and in the car he says " im hit man" - thats him admitting out loud that the handful of downers he just swallowed (or maybe injected demorel) are kicking-in and hes getting his buzz)

watch & listen too 'got a woman' from hampton rds -
the exhale, shake off the head & closed eyes at the start are the actions of his drugs kicking in , he even nearly falls over at the end !

he pulls off not only that gig amazingly well but all of them, texas in particular is a stunning performance but do NOT kid yourself he was anywhere near clean or straight then or any other day of the 70's !

are you aware that the day after the aloha gig, everyone turned up cos they thought they we're going out, to be told by linda that elvis was so wasted on downers there was no chance of him even leaving the room! thats not a glass of champagne to celebrate what an amazing event he'd just gotten thru!

are you aware at the end his bum & legs looked like a pin cushion?

are you aware he nearly killed a young girl in 71 cos they we're drinking heavy duty cough medicine, he paid her hospital bills but supposedly showed no remorse & was totally blase about it !

im not putting him down, hes my hero - i worship the bloody guy and i have sympathy for him , not hate cos he was human and i just think its heart-breaking how it went down !

he (im presuming) was in denial and wouldnt listen to anyone, including his cop buddys who could clearly see a drug addict !

it doesnt mean we have to be in denial, especially when u essentially have no knowledge of his habits & abuse cos u refuse to read,
let alone believe ! like i said just watch the omaha footage !
does that not shock you ?????

enjoy the music & love the man for the amazing singer he once was!
sometimes i wish id stayed that way, its nice u dont want to know about his abuse and what a quite horrible person he became as the drugs took over more & more ! but why are u posting on a topic clearly titled "ELVIS AND DRUGS" !!!!

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:43 am

Some people think that Elvis fired the Colonel in September 3 1973 because of heavy drugs and the closing night was a result of them. I disagree 300% percent. How I wish now that the Colonel was fired for good.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:50 am

Mike Eder wrote:I think the trick is that yes Elvis had bad problems with addiction, but not every story on it is going to be told in the right light. It's not white washing at this point, it's more trying to find info on it presented with compassion. When it comes to Elvis' friends most try to make it like they were the one person who tried to help. The fact is that many had problems nearly as bad as him, yet there often seems to be a disconnect as some have been quite judgemental of him in public.

It's something most people have judged him on too long and it doesn't make him any less of a human being or negate any of his quality music. Once again I have to say it is wrong to call anyone with a problem a junkie. Do we forget that he was a human being? A flawed one in many ways, but a real person with real feelings.

No there is nothing to hide or be ashamed of, but name calling a man who achieved so many great things in his life and made all our lives better in the process deserves a little respect.

On the mark, Mike. We should've stopped damning the man for his actions years ago. All those who think they would've handled his situation better - stardom, money, women, drugs, etc - step right up.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:41 pm

There ARE people who handled it better, mainly because they really tried to understand what happened to him. So it wouldn't happen to them. But not enough to have avoided the many subsequent tragedies in the biz that we know too well about.

There were tragedies that Elvis could have learned from, if he had been able to face what what was hapening to him. He instead became afraid. But not necessarily of death. He didn't want to get caught. Look, I really don't blame him for this. He needed assistance. Aside from the Dr. Feelgoods, who profited from his addiction, others didn't know what to do.

It's not easy - for those who wanted to save him. Even today, with all the "experts," when it's someone you love, usually a loved one is usually at a loss as to what to do . . .

The Fray "How To A Life."

View count: 12,001,850 A LOT of people have loved ones in trouble, just as Elvis was.

phpBB [video]



rjm

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:09 pm

Z0S0, you either have no idea what i'm saying, or you're completely twisting my words, for whatever reason i don't know

Z0S0 wrote:(well both of them to 'elvisgirl') - shes pointing out that u keep posting on a topic you have no knowledge off ! yes its the internet and yes its a free messageboard but still, dont post when u know nothing about the topic!

when did i say that he's posting on a topic that he has no knowledge off?? tell me, when did i say that?
and just because i don't have no knowledge of it, i can't post on a topic? i have every right to do so. and i have done nothing but express my feelings and opinions in this thread. never ever have i said that i'm an expert on the subject


Z0S0 wrote:The fact u think hes in great shape in 'on tour' - speaks volumes!

you say it's a fact that i think he was in great shape in on tour. yet i have never said anything about this

Z0S0 wrote:it doesnt mean we have to be in denial, especially when u essentially have no knowledge of his habits & abuse cos u refuse to read,
let alone believe !

how can you say that i'm' in denial. i have NEVER denied that elvis used drugs

Z0S0 wrote:but why are u posting on a topic clearly titled "ELVIS AND DRUGS" !!!!

i repeat, so just because i don't have no knowledge of it, i can't post on a topic? i have every right to do so

Elvisgirl wrote:dont call me ignorant just beacuse you dont agree with me

let me rephrase that: don't call me ignorant just because you don't understand me. that's very ignorant of you

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:39 am

May I just say again it is possible to go too far when both defending or condeming Elvis. Making statements that can't be backed up either way don't help ones point. One quick thing is that the cough syrup thing happened in 1973 not 1971 and Elvis' part in what happened is not all that clear cut. Not trying to defend him on it completely but she wasn't totally without fault.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:11 am

Mike Eder wrote:May I just say again it is possible to go too far when both defending or condeming Elvis. Making statements that can't be backed up either way don't help ones point. One quick thing is that the cough syrup thing happened in 1973 not 1971 and Elvis' part in what happened is not all that clear cut. Not trying to defend him on it completely but she wasn't totally without fault.

im not being an A'hole 'mike' but lamar & billy say it was summer 71 !they WE'RE there, i wasnt, was u ?
i know the serious 'dunking his head in buckets of iced water etc' we're in 73 but i can quite believe the cough syrup situation was as earlly as 71 - either way it doesnt matter if it was 71 or 77 - the fact is, the yr or month doesnt matter, if u was an 18y.o girl in elvis presleys penthouse suite wouldnt you have let him ply you with anything & everything too!

the fact he nearly killed a young girl & could barely give a sh*t is not the guy i worship ! he paid her hospital bills but he never showed ANY remorse over the situation - thats not the elvis i see in the (for example) msg press conference footage !

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:31 am

I'm not sure he REALLY didn't care. Sure, the drugs change a person, but I think the terror of the situation overwhelmed him, and that's what they saw. They couldn't see inside him. They couldn't know what he really felt about it. The main thing they saw was that he was very afraid. But what he really felt - other things he felt, they couldn't know. So, it's complicated. When someone's back is against the wall, they go into another mode. Like a DUI situation. Sure the person feels horrible if it results in a severe injury to someone else, but first and foremost, they are terrified!

What I can't understand is that Charlie WAS going to take the rap for him! (But if it came to that, it would not have held up, anyway. And Elvis surely knew that.)

We can't say "I would have handled it differently," because we've never been in a situation like that, and we have no idea how we would have handled it.

(I did know an older person - well, at the time he was maybe 20 or 22 or something - so he was "old" to me, who got into almost exactly the same jam - the cough medicine, and an unfortunate girl. I was told about it when it happened, and later - and this was quite before I heard about the Elvis situation. I won't say what happened to the girl, okay? Anyway, it was the same cough syrup - guzzling it, except that Elvis added the extra touch of the champagne glasses. {Yuck!} I was just a little kid then, so I don't know all the details, but I think the guy got off with probation or something. I don't want to go into detail, because you never know who is looking at what on the 'net. I could say his name right now, but that would not be prudent. He was not a relative, but he KNEW a . . . well, I've said too much. My point is that people were doing that at that time. It was all the rage to guzzle that cough syrup like it was liquor, or beer. Very dangerous and foolish in the extreme, but it was also very popular. And I know it was. I know a couple people who know more about the incident, and I could ask someone to tell it again, but I'd rather not bring it up.

I hope this helps in understanding the times; Elvis didn't dream this up on his own. A lot of people were doing this, then. Doesn't make it right, of course, but it was a thing people were regularly doing. Just exactly like he is described doing with it, is what happened in this situation that I was close to.)

rjm (Look what I found. It seems it was especially popular in the south, going back to the sixties - Houston, in particular, and has increased greatly since then. The situation I described was not in the south. In any event, this "Purple Drank," they mix it with soda pop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank )
Last edited by rjm on Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:49 am

Elvisgirl wrote:Z0S0, you either have no idea what i'm saying, or you're completely twisting my words, for whatever reason i don't know


i knew you'd just HAVE to come back !!! do i sound stupid,?
UN-eduacted or ignorant to our kings issues as u presume ! ???


no its YOU that has no idea what I, allahana nash or peter guralnick have to say !
im not twisting anything, frankly i can barely be bothered =
i dont need to twist your words or try to tar you with any brush!
wot do i have to gain from worshipping or condemning you? i dont know you and i barely give a sh*t about this MB !

what i AM saying is - dont contribute to a topic (espec one about his drug abuse) when you've actually never read or looked into it !
which you clearly admitted ! and it IS important cos not only did he nearly kill some people along the way but he ultimately paid the price and killed himself !!!!

you think he was in great shape in on tour - u DID state that, yeah he was about as slim as i currently am but his face was full of demoral & like i said watch 'got a woman' - hes totally wasted ! he admits it in the car! lamar says they literally kept him alive for many yrs !
its almost a miracle he got past 'desert storm'

i dont really care wot u believe or dont believe, my own father who played (my boy) to me when i was a crying baby (yeah that deplorable piece of sh*t that most here seem to hate tho i personnaly like a lot)
still thinks elvis died died from a broken heart because of cilla!
elvis didnt give a sh*t about cilla, his ego hated the fact she rejected & left him , he didnt even memorise her B;day!

frankly, i dont really give a sh*t but i hate denial !
as i clearly stated, its the internet, its a free messageboard and you & everyone else can post what they want , i dont know you , i dont need too and i have no ulterior motive to 'put u down'!

you seem to have been around here for yrs, as long as me anyway but ive never noticed you so its not like i have a grudge or something to prove , i have nothing against you & i love elvis like a brother (which is kinda screwed up) BUT i just hate the rose coloured glasses situation

but lets just keep it real - thats ALL i ask,
i love elvis else i wouldnt be here but i dont like the B/S that sometimes comes with him, ala charlie hodge - he took so many drugs cos he had bone cancer - no he didnt ! he took so many drugs cos he loved getting wasted & built up a major tolerence - its a shame he didnt make it to 70yrs old like keith richards!

i just wish you'd either actually do some research (ie: read some books) or STFU !!!!! i dont go talking about dean martins whiskey habit cos i have no idea about it but im vary aware or our heros habits!

i notice u didnt address any of my points either -
re: omaha (have YOU actually watched that>>)
or the hawaii situation etc

as the man himselfivis said " i fooled em all for along time " and he certainly did but the truth is out there not just in black n white but technicolor & CBS film too!!

as i said, its great if your in denial or just dont care (or even get it) about his drug abuse but why are u posting on this topic that u clearly know nothing about or supposedly care about !
he didnt die cos he he was constipated (tho that was ACTUALLY a factor) but because he had
'at least' 20 different drugs in various quantities coursing thru his body ( the 'Attacks' the stanley boys took great pride in providing )

im NOT coming back to this (which im sure youll be relieved to hear) but just dont be ignorant & offer an opinion ! like i said enjoy his music and keep thinking he was wonderful, kind & full of charisma - i wish i still did but thats not the guy who died on that bathroom floor !

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:11 am

rjm wrote:I'm not sure he REALLY didn't care. Sure, the drugs change a person,

rjm


rjm - i totally get wot your saying & actually i was just saying to my now old folks that it was the 60's & then the 70's and it was very different today!
we'll never know wot the guy felt or thought, i doubt he did either !
at his level off abuse, clarity goes out the window !
as i said B4, id love to know if he looked in the mirror in 77 & thought "WTF" !!!!
i never 'walked a mile in his shoes of course' but this yr, my mother ended up being literally seconds from death - she was saved & is all good, then my father was hrs from death & was also saved but looks a total mess & 100 yrs old, not 67 ! then the girl I was in-love with turned out to be the opposite of what i thought she was ( well a total whore for starters) so i hit the bottle, ended up chasing my dog down the st without an inch off clothing on and in the end i ended up in an ambulance & A&E !
my point being - when u go THAT far, its just a blur, u dont know if its sat/sun or mon or if uv hammered your allocated 'supply'

i dont know if any of that made any sense but i know how it feels to be so wasted that u end up in A+E but its all a blur anyway & i tend to think that after spring 73 elvis didnt really know right from left ! ?

he kept up a great image & literally got away with murder but things likes shooting at imaginary snakes on the graceland lawn is not a good thing !

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:16 am

Z0S0 wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:May I just say again it is possible to go too far when both defending or condeming Elvis. Making statements that can't be backed up either way don't help ones point. One quick thing is that the cough syrup thing happened in 1973 not 1971 and Elvis' part in what happened is not all that clear cut. Not trying to defend him on it completely but she wasn't totally without fault.

im not being an A'hole 'mike' but lamar & billy say it was summer 71 !they WE'RE there, i wasnt, was u ?
i know the serious 'dunking his head in buckets of iced water etc' we're in 73 but i can quite believe the cough syrup situation was as earlly as 71 - either way it doesnt matter if it was 71 or 77 - the fact is, the yr or month doesnt matter, if u was an 18y.o girl in elvis presleys penthouse suite wouldnt you have let him ply you with anything & everything too!

the fact he nearly killed a young girl & could barely give a sh*t is not the guy i worship ! he paid her hospital bills but he never showed ANY remorse over the situation - thats not the elvis i see in the (for example) msg press conference footage !

Here's some additional info on it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656&hilit=Page+Peterson

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:41 am

[quote="Mike Eder"
Here's some additional info on it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656&hilit=Page+Peterson[/quote]

ok mike i took a look, but like i said really it doesnt matter whether it was 71/73 or 77 - its the situation that bothers me !
sandi's account (& i have her book) is actually VERY different to the revelations account so who do u believe ???
i tend to think it'd be elvis chucking it down her neck not telling her to "take it easy & wait " but i could be wrong !
the fact elvis became so blase with no only drugs but woman & drugs "shes going down tonight" tends to bother me but its like lamar said he never really knew reality!
im not here to hate the guy, i love him, when he was on form he was untouchable but as the yrs go by and i read more, it kinda puts me off the way he treated people - like i said u watch the MSG conference & u see a very straight, mega confident guy that is full of charisma and has ALL the answers = to me he comes off amazingly well ! but thats not the elvis we're told was holed up in the hilton !
why i give A sh*t I DONT KNOW ????? lol

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:39 am

Elvisgirl wrote:so because you've read all the books, you think you know it all...has it ever occurred to you that people might not always tell the truth? i refuse to read any books written about elvis ...

You've lost the game right there, my friend.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:14 am

Z0S0 wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Here's some additional info on it.
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656


ok mike i took a look, but like i said really it doesnt matter whether it was 71/73 or 77 - its the situation that bothers me !
sandi's account (& i have her book) is actually VERY different to the revelations account so who do u believe ???

Peterson's first-person account from the 1977 magazine article, and the West's story she corroborates, which was published in Elvis: What Happened? in 1977.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:15 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:so because you've read all the books, you think you know it all...has it ever occurred to you that people might not always tell the truth? i refuse to read any books written about elvis ...

You've lost the game right there, my friend.

oh come on! don't you start too! i have stated several times that i'm no expert

Re: Elvis and drugs

Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:54 pm

Z0S0 wrote:[quote="Mike Eder"
Here's some additional info on it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656&hilit=Page+Peterson


ok mike i took a look, but like i said really it doesnt matter whether it was 71/73 or 77 - its the situation that bothers me !
sandi's account (& i have her book) is actually VERY different to the revelations account so who do u believe ???
i tend to think it'd be elvis chucking it down her neck not telling her to "take it easy & wait " but i could be wrong !
the fact elvis became so blase with no only drugs but woman & drugs "shes going down tonight" tends to bother me but its like lamar said he never really knew reality!
im not here to hate the guy, i love him, when he was on form he was untouchable but as the yrs go by and i read more, it kinda puts me off the way he treated people - like i said u watch the MSG conference & u see a very straight, mega confident guy that is full of charisma and has ALL the answers = to me he comes off amazingly well ! but thats not the elvis we're told was holed up in the hilton !
why i give A sh*t I DONT KNOW ????? lol[/quote]
I think what Page had to say about it is the most important but that's my view. As far as if Elvis cared, I am sure he did for more than one reason. Why the year is important is because a clear look at the stages of his decline are the only way to understand it.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:21 am

jurasic1968 wrote:Closing Night Vegas 3 September 1973? He was not heavily drugged, he was very energetic, with his crazy sense of humor but very angry because he was trapped with the Hilton contract, very upset about Mario (his favourite waiter) being fired and very angry about the Colonel (he fired him later in the night). Elvis believed it was the last night ever in the Hilton and wanted to do a final show to truly express himself with all his feelings and frustrations after four years engagements in the Hilton casino. So the crazy things he did on stage that night can be explained by these factors.


Listen once more to the show. It is apparent that he is very medicated. A sad performance.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:19 am

My My ... we certainly have some newbies on this board.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:07 am

samses wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:Closing Night Vegas 3 September 1973? He was not heavily drugged, he was very energetic, with his crazy sense of humor but very angry because he was trapped with the Hilton contract, very upset about Mario (his favourite waiter) being fired and very angry about the Colonel (he fired him later in the night). Elvis believed it was the last night ever in the Hilton and wanted to do a final show to truly express himself with all his feelings and frustrations after four years engagements in the Hilton casino. So the crazy things he did on stage that night can be explained by these factors.


Listen once more to the show. It is apparent that he is very medicated. A sad performance.

Well, as we all know, Elvis was always high/stoned in the 70's. He was more interested in abusing drugs than making music, or entertaining.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:14 am

Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:so because you've read all the books, you think you know it all...has it ever occurred to you that people might not always tell the truth? i refuse to read any books written about elvis ...

You've lost the game right there, my friend.

oh come on! don't you start too! i have stated several times that i'm no expert

And yet, here you are arguing at the top of your lungs on a subject you admit you know NOTHING about.

Please, stop.