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Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:36 am

Mike Eder wrote:
Z0S0 wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Here's some additional info on it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656&hilit=Page+Peterson


ok mike i took a look, but like i said really it doesnt matter whether it was 71/73 or 77 - its the situation that bothers me !
sandi's account (& i have her book) is actually VERY different to the revelations account so who do u believe ???
i tend to think it'd be elvis chucking it down her neck not telling her to "take it easy & wait " but i could be wrong !
the fact elvis became so blase with no only drugs but woman & drugs "shes going down tonight" tends to bother me but its like lamar said he never really knew reality!
im not here to hate the guy, i love him, when he was on form he was untouchable but as the yrs go by and i read more, it kinda puts me off the way he treated people - like i said u watch the MSG conference & u see a very straight, mega confident guy that is full of charisma and has ALL the answers = to me he comes off amazingly well ! but thats not the elvis we're told was holed up in the hilton !
why i give A sh*t I DONT KNOW ????? lol


I feel like Sandi is seeing it the way she remembers it. It's only natural. I'm sure the incident was quite traumatic, and certainly the guys upstairs saw a lot more than anyone else. Also, some of her account from Usenet relates matters that she could not have been present to witness: only Elvis would have. So, Elvis told her a lot of it. First he was with the girl, who had a cold, and took too much, unbeknownst to Elvis. Then he just calmly came back downstairs, leaving the girl to herself upstairs. And then, all he** broke loose, and Elvis went upstairs.

Well, the only way for us to know for sure about all this, would for there to be police and medical records, but those no longer exist, obviously.

I do NOT think he "chucked it down her throat." She was of an age where she joined right in, because a LOT of girls her age were doing the same, at the behest of guys of varying ages, ordinary guys, btw. This does not exculpate the guys, but I seriously doubt he forced it down her throat; he didn't have to, he was a ROCK STAR, and girls will do whatever they think the star thinks is cool. I mean, she went off with him, so she knew it was all drugs, sex and rock 'n' roll, and that's what she went for.

A lot of young girls were treated very badly by male musicians in those days (and maybe today, too), and no one gave it a second thought at the time. Unless, something really bad happened. And in this case, something really bad happened.

If Elvis brought out these champagne glasses (and the girl said she "thinks" it was pills - I would question her memory of the night if there were any brain injury at all), and, in that event, he made it into a "fun" thing to do together. No way to know for sure, but there were witnesses in the morning, and we just don't know if they are telling the truth. I think that since this opens the book, it may be one of the more truthful things in it. They were practically begging for a lawsuit by opening the book with it. Remember, this book came out when he was alive.

Do I think it was "another guy"? No, I don't.

Mike Eder wrote:I think what Page had to say about it is the most important but that's my view. As far as if Elvis cared, I am sure he did for more than one reason. Why the year is important is because a clear look at the stages of his decline are the only way to understand it.


Mike, that is right on the money! For a while, I didn't think it mattered which year, either, but perhaps it does quite a bit. Even when I first read it in '77, it seemed disturbing that it happened in '71, as was initially reported. That he was so out of control so early on in the sad journey. So soon after TTWII, which I had seen on TV, before he died, and he looked so wonderful, and was so full of good humor. I don't know; the dates seem make more possible in '73, just because of where he was at the time.

Gotta go back and really study the thread.

rjm

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:32 am

rjm wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:
Z0S0 wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:Here's some additional info on it.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60656&hilit=Page+Peterson


ok mike i took a look, but like i said really it doesnt matter whether it was 71/73 or 77 - its the situation that bothers me !
sandi's account (& i have her book) is actually VERY different to the revelations account so who do u believe ???
i tend to think it'd be elvis chucking it down her neck not telling her to "take it easy & wait " but i could be wrong !
the fact elvis became so blase with no only drugs but woman & drugs "shes going down tonight" tends to bother me but its like lamar said he never really knew reality!
im not here to hate the guy, i love him, when he was on form he was untouchable but as the yrs go by and i read more, it kinda puts me off the way he treated people - like i said u watch the MSG conference & u see a very straight, mega confident guy that is full of charisma and has ALL the answers = to me he comes off amazingly well ! but thats not the elvis we're told was holed up in the hilton !
why i give A sh*t I DONT KNOW ????? lol


I feel like Sandi is seeing it the way she remembers it. It's only natural. I'm sure the incident was quite traumatic, and certainly the guys upstairs saw a lot more than anyone else. Also, some of her account from Usenet relates matters that she could not have been present to witness: only Elvis would have. So, Elvis told her a lot of it. First he was with the girl, who had a cold, and took too much, unbeknownst to Elvis. Then he just calmly came back downstairs, leaving the girl to herself upstairs. And then, all he** broke loose, and Elvis went upstairs.

Well, the only way for us to know for sure about all this, would for there to be police and medical records, but those no longer exist, obviously.

I do NOT think he "chucked it down her throat." She was of an age where she joined right in, because a LOT of girls her age were doing the same, at the behest of guys of varying ages, ordinary guys, btw. This does not exculpate the guys, but I seriously doubt he forced it down her throat; he didn't have to, he was a ROCK STAR, and girls will do whatever they think the star thinks is cool. I mean, she went off with him, so she knew it was all drugs, sex and rock 'n' roll, and that's what she went for.

A lot of young girls were treated very badly by male musicians in those days (and maybe today, too), and no one gave it a second thought at the time. Unless, something really bad happened. And in this case, something really bad happened.

If Elvis brought out these champagne glasses (and the girl said she "thinks" it was pills - I would question her memory of the night if there were any brain injury at all), and, in that event, he made it into a "fun" thing to do together. No way to know for sure, but there were witnesses in the morning, and we just don't know if they are telling the truth. I think that since this opens the book, it may be one of the more truthful things in it. They were practically begging for a lawsuit by opening the book with it. Remember, this book came out when he was alive.

Do I think it was "another guy"? No, I don't.

Mike Eder wrote:I think what Page had to say about it is the most important but that's my view. As far as if Elvis cared, I am sure he did for more than one reason. Why the year is important is because a clear look at the stages of his decline are the only way to understand it.


Mike, that is right on the money! For a while, I didn't think it mattered which year, either, but perhaps it does quite a bit. Even when I first read it in '77, it seemed disturbing that it happened in '71, as was initially reported. That he was so out of control so early on in the sad journey. So soon after TTWII, which I had seen on TV, before he died, and he looked so wonderful, and was so full of good humor. I don't know; the dates seem make more possible in '73, just because of where he was at the time.

Gotta go back and really study the thread.

rjm

Good post rjm. That's the whole point is that putting historical perspective on these incidents are the only way to "get" what happened to Elvis. That's why it is important that we don't hide from the truth nor turn it into a finger pointing excercise.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:56 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:so because you've read all the books, you think you know it all...has it ever occurred to you that people might not always tell the truth? i refuse to read any books written about elvis ...

You've lost the game right there, my friend.

oh come on! don't you start too! i have stated several times that i'm no expert

And yet, here you are arguing at the top of your lungs on a subject you admit you know NOTHING about.

Please, stop.

as i said before, i'm just expressing my feelings and opinions. i'm not claiming that i know anything about the subject. and when Z0S0 started quoting me and directing posts at me, of course i had to respond. the only one i didn't bother responding to was his latest post directed at me, because he said he wouldn't come back to the thread

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:27 pm

Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:And yet, here you are arguing at the top of your lungs on a subject you admit you know NOTHING about.

Please, stop.

as i said before, i'm just expressing my feelings and opinions. i'm not claiming that i know anything about the subject.

If someone comes on here and creates a deep discussion on brain surgery, I may read the topic, but I will not chime in, again and again, "expressing my feelings and opinions" -- because I have never read a thing about brain surgery. It's rude and offensive to do otherwise.

So it will be very appreciated if you follow the same path. Thanks.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:08 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:And yet, here you are arguing at the top of your lungs on a subject you admit you know NOTHING about.

Please, stop.

as i said before, i'm just expressing my feelings and opinions. i'm not claiming that i know anything about the subject.

If someone comes on here and creates a deep discussion on brain surgery, I may read the topic, but I will not chime in, again and again, "expressing my feelings and opinions" -- because I have never read a thing about brain surgery. It's rude and offensive to do otherwise.

So it will be very appreciated if you follow the same path. Thanks.

why, because you said so? don't tell me what to do. i have done nothing wrong here

Re: Elvis and drugs

Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:46 pm

Elvisgirl wrote:why, because you said so? don't tell me what to do. i have done nothing wrong here

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm telling you what I would do if I were you, and have politely asked that you do the same.

Thanks!

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:36 am

Z0S0 wrote:(ever notice the bit when hes left the hotel & heading to the gig and in the car he says " im hit man" - thats him admitting out loud that the handful of downers he just swallowed (or maybe injected demorel) are kicking-in and hes getting his buzz)

watch & listen too 'got a woman' from hampton rds -
the exhale, shake off the head & closed eyes at the start are the actions of his drugs kicking in , he even nearly falls over at the end !

You sure know how to read Elvis's thoughts.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:why, because you said so? don't tell me what to do. i have done nothing wrong here

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm telling you what I would do if I were you, and have politely asked that you do the same.

Thanks!

yeah, but you're not me, and we're different

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:13 am

Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:why, because you said so? don't tell me what to do. i have done nothing wrong here

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm telling you what I would do if I were you, and have politely asked that you do the same.

Thanks!

yeah, but you're not me, and we're different

Praise the Lord, and pass the Bisquick.

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:39 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Elvisgirl wrote:why, because you said so? don't tell me what to do. i have done nothing wrong here

I'm not telling anyone what to do.

I'm telling you what I would do if I were you, and have politely asked that you do the same.

Thanks!

yeah, but you're not me, and we're different

Praise the Lord, and pass the Bisquick.


Bisquick? Do you eat it,drink it,smoke it or inject it?
I could look it up but I refuse to read about it so I will say you eat it and be forever correct in my mind.


norrie

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:09 am

norrie wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Praise the Lord, and pass the Bisquick.


Bisquick? Do you eat it,drink it,smoke it or inject it?
I could look it up but I refuse to read about it so I will say you eat it and be forever correct in my mind.

Spot-on. I got through 2 years of college with Bisquick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisquick
http://www.bettycrocker.com/products/bisquick/default

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:38 am

Xaykev wrote:
Z0S0 wrote:(ever notice the bit when hes left the hotel & heading to the gig and in the car he says " im hit man" - thats him admitting out loud that the handful of downers he just swallowed (or maybe injected demorel) are kicking-in and hes getting his buzz)

watch & listen too 'got a woman' from hampton rds -
the exhale, shake off the head & closed eyes at the start are the actions of his drugs kicking in , he even nearly falls over at the end !

You sure know how to read Elvis's thoughts.

Yeah, well we're surrounded by experts here who know what drugs was taking every hour of every day, But of course, that is his legacy - not the concerts, the records, the films. When people 100 years from now are asked about Elvis Presley, their reaction will be 'oh yeah, that guy that took a lot of drugs."

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:48 am

Lonely Summer wrote:
Xaykev wrote:
Z0S0 wrote:(ever notice the bit when hes left the hotel & heading to the gig and in the car he says " im hit man" - thats him admitting out loud that the handful of downers he just swallowed (or maybe injected demorel) are kicking-in and hes getting his buzz)

watch & listen too 'got a woman' from hampton rds -
the exhale, shake off the head & closed eyes at the start are the actions of his drugs kicking in , he even nearly falls over at the end !

You sure know how to read Elvis's thoughts.

Yeah, well we're surrounded by experts here who know what drugs was taking every hour of every day, But of course, that is his legacy - not the concerts, the records, the films. When people 100 years from now are asked about Elvis Presley, their reaction will be 'oh yeah, that guy that took a lot of drugs."

Best post yet, well said :smt023 :smt023 big thumbs up to you :smt023 :smt023 :smt023 thats excatley how i feel, and also what i mean when i say its not important. His legacy and the music, and everything else he did in his career is what matters. Not how many drugs he took and when, where and why

Re: Elvis and drugs

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 pm

Lonely Summer wrote:
Xaykev wrote:
Z0S0 wrote:(ever notice the bit when hes left the hotel & heading to the gig and in the car he says " im hit man" - thats him admitting out loud that the handful of downers he just swallowed (or maybe injected demorel) are kicking-in and hes getting his buzz)

watch & listen too 'got a woman' from hampton rds -
the exhale, shake off the head & closed eyes at the start are the actions of his drugs kicking in , he even nearly falls over at the end !

You sure know how to read Elvis's thoughts.

Yeah, well we're surrounded by experts here who know what drugs was taking every hour of every day, But of course, that is his legacy - not the concerts, the records, the films. When people 100 years from now are asked about Elvis Presley, their reaction will be 'oh yeah, that guy that took a lot of drugs."


That's the thing that gets me is the guessing. Before 1973 I think 90 percent of the drug comments by fans or spectators as far as it relates to his work are bogus. Meaning that while there were shows and sessions effected by it as early as mid 1970, it wasn't a common enough occurance before 1973 to make a big creative issue of it. I'm not looking to make his drug addiction less than it was, but I do take issue when the music gets judged on it too early on. I think other than the obvious 1973-77 disasters, drugs even in the later years shouldn't be intertwined to the level they are-when judging the merits of his songs. You can't ignore them then, especally in the last eighteen months, but I think people are being lazy when they attribute everything to pills and I've seen ignorance on this extend all the way back to the Hy Gardner interview in 1956.