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Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:03 am

I got the clipping out of Google News (which is not active anymore, but they have the archive - it's hard to get to).

This needs to be saved to Elvis-hard-drives everywhere! Wherever you have the Nixon Letter, put this WITH IT! And all the other materials!!! It is VERY IMPORTANT! The speech was given in Las Vegas. It was in papers all over the country, often, like this one, on the front page. Certainly in the Vegas area. I don't know how many papers it was in, there are so many! It spurred an angry backlash from rockers, obviously. Elvis decided to take a different approach. As you can see.

In Gaar, both Nixon and Krogh said to each other, after it was done: "brainwashing??" They didn't know what that was all about, and Krogh STILL seems not to know! That book is just two years old, with a fresh interview of Krogh.

Here is the clipping, like most of the other papers it was; in fact, likely identical. It was a wire story. And worth the front page. (It is definitely big enough for reading, and comfortable printing.)

VegasAgnew.jpg


rjm
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:32 am

I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:03 am

ekenee wrote:I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.


First of all, I assumed everyone had actually read Elvis's letter to the President, so THIS is why I couldn't think of where else to put it! It is not an "off-topic" matter, because Elvis's mind-set at the time, IS the topic. And here is a component of it, which anyone would know if they'd read and thought about the letter.

Have you read his letter to Nixon? Did you look at the date on this, or that it was a speech in Las Vegas? Do you know the timeline of events that fall? Or that Elvis claimed he met with Agnew to discuss his "concerns," which were clearly Agnew's concerns. No, it doesn't "mention Elvis." Elvis mentioned what was in it! In case you never bothered to actually READ it, here's the Letter:

http://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/document.html?doc=20&title.raw=Elvis%20Presley%26%2339%3Bs%20Letter%20to%20President%20Richard%20Nixon

It begins, on page one, with a reference to the VEEP, who had kicked up quite a stir at the time.

You know, the WORLD happens at the very same time as a person's life. And NEVER was the music under such direct assault as during and shortly after this time, when lists of banned songs were applied to radio stations. Agnew's speech was very directly THREATENING to musical artists. You could get busted for drugs. And Agnew knew what legislation was about to pass: legislation that scheduled drugs, including those available from doctors. One could get arrested for violating these new laws, in ways they were not yet clear about. It was a frightening time, and Agnew meant to REALLY frighten. It was an order, from the highest powers, to STFU, to musical artists, which is what Elvis did, and then some. It was a very difficult time, and I was hoping that some people here might have the imagination to want to look at that time, when Elvis lived. When he had to directly deal with all this stuff.

In the fifties, he needn't have worried about the assaults hurled at him, except for the draft, and perhaps direct acts of individual violence. Now, he was caught in a sling, because he had a problem: not that bad a problem, yet. THIS is what transformed it, in my view. In 1970, around 300,000 people had serious drug problems; in the 21st century, it was 3 million.

I guess I over-estimated the willingness of people to think this through. But, you can't learn about Elvis just by reading his interviews, or what was directly said about him. You have to take a wee bit of a look at the social context in which he lived! If you read the Letter, you will notice alarming similarities! But . . . whatever.

If anyone is interested in figuring out his mind-set at the time, you need to read this in tandem with the other materials, especially since he claimed to have spoken to Agnew. Who knows if he did; he didn't HAVE to; it was in the newspapers. But apparently some people have no interest in his mind, or what he was thinking, or how so many people got into deep problems with drugs. They were under assault at the time, and so were driven underground. Which is exactly what happened to Elvis. I don't think things would necessarily taken the course they did, if this "War on Drugs" and culture, didn't happen. He went from using to seriously abusing, and this atmosphere helped to make that happen. If you can't see that, how people can react to something like this in the wrong way, out of fear, I can't help you.

It doesn't have to say "Elvis" to have affected Elvis. He lived those times! And he entered them with some baggage, and then he found out about this. And reacted the way that he did. I thought some context would be appreciated. It took some work to get this article out of Google News. It's not downloadable.

I think some people might be offended by the suggestion? That he reacted to this? Seems clear to me, and if we don't look history in the face, we're pretty sunk. We are still living with the consequences of the "War On Drugs." Which was also a war on culture, and on the people of that culture. This also affects his musical choices at the time, his sudden attitude shift (like the Sep. 21-22 sessions, which only lasted one day, and his on-stage-out-of-character-boasting), everything. He was meeting with people in power, trying to get badges, giving money to police departments, and getting more badges . . . he actually offered what FBI drug man John Finlator considered a bribe. (Elvis called Finlator an "S.O.B." and apparently sent him A RADIO a few years later as a retirement gift.) But if you're not interested, fine.

You know, if you wish clarification, you can ask in a nice way! Instead of saying it doesn't even "belong" here.

rjm :smt100

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:57 am

Thanks for posting. It's interesting for a number of reasons, not least because Elvis apparently spoke in person with Agnew several weeks later about these very issues. It also highlights why Elvis would have expected Nixon to be receptive to his suggestions. In his mind, he was preaching to the choir.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:02 am

TJ wrote:Thanks for posting. It's interesting for a number of reasons, not least because Elvis apparently spoke in person with Agnew several weeks later about these very issues. It also highlights why Elvis would have expected Nixon to be receptive to his suggestions. In his mind, he was preaching to the choir.


Thank you, TJ! That's all I can say. :smt006

(And I do hope people file this, and really look at it, as well as compare it to the actual letter. I try to put myself in Elvis's place, and try to imagine what he was thinking, by looking at everything I can that sheds light.)

rjm ::rocks

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:14 am

thatsthewayitis wrote:
ekenee wrote:I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.

i don't see her point to anything she post

Go away CURTIS you have been banned at least three times already troll!
Move on.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:26 am

thatsthewayitis wrote:
ekenee wrote:I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.

i don't see her point to anything she post


+1

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:23 pm

zolderopruiming1 wrote:
thatsthewayitis wrote:
ekenee wrote:I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.

i don't see her point to anything she post


+1


I'll take that from whence it comes. You just agreed with a disturbed individual who called a member the n-word, so your opinon carries little weight with me.

If you find it helpful, I'm glad, if not, I don't care. People often reveal themselves in unflattering ways, "z."

I know there are thoughful members who appreciate some hard thinking. And there are those who maybe don't read books without pictures in 'em. Which is why you take it from whence it comes.

rjm (Guess it's about time for a new avatar. Like Elvis, I'm tired of being a goody-goody.)

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Ty rjm for posting this - its a good read - TCE4Evr

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:06 pm

rjm wrote:
ekenee wrote:I don't see your point.

This has been said over and over again that the entertainment industry promotes drugs.

Ok, we have known that for decades.

This doesn't belong in all elvis.

It doesn't even mention elvis.

There is nothing new or significant in this article.

Not sure why you posted it.


First of all, I assumed everyone had actually read Elvis's letter to the President, so THIS is why I couldn't think of where else to put it! It is not an "off-topic" matter, because Elvis's mind-set at the time, IS the topic. And here is a component of it, which anyone would know if they'd read and thought about the letter.

Have you read his letter to Nixon? Did you look at the date on this, or that it was a speech in Las Vegas? Do you know the timeline of events that fall? Or that Elvis claimed he met with Agnew to discuss his "concerns," which were clearly Agnew's concerns. No, it doesn't "mention Elvis." Elvis mentioned what was in it! In case you never bothered to actually READ it, here's the Letter:

http://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/document.html?doc=20&title.raw=Elvis%20Presley%26%2339%3Bs%20Letter%20to%20President%20Richard%20Nixon

It begins, on page one, with a reference to the VEEP, who had kicked up quite a stir at the time.

You know, the WORLD happens at the very same time as a person's life. And NEVER was the music under such direct assault as during and shortly after this time, when lists of banned songs were applied to radio stations. Agnew's speech was very directly THREATENING to musical artists. You could get busted for drugs. And Agnew knew what legislation was about to pass: legislation that scheduled drugs, including those available from doctors. One could get arrested for violating these new laws, in ways they were not yet clear about. It was a frightening time, and Agnew meant to REALLY frighten. It was an order, from the highest powers, to STFU, to musical artists, which is what Elvis did, and then some. It was a very difficult time, and I was hoping that some people here might have the imagination to want to look at that time, when Elvis lived. When he had to directly deal with all this stuff.

In the fifties, he needn't have worried about the assaults hurled at him, except for the draft, and perhaps direct acts of individual violence. Now, he was caught in a sling, because he had a problem: not that bad a problem, yet. THIS is what transformed it, in my view. In 1970, around 300,000 people had serious drug problems; in the 21st century, it was 3 million.

I guess I over-estimated the willingness of people to think this through. But, you can't learn about Elvis just by reading his interviews, or what was directly said about him. You have to take a wee bit of a look at the social context in which he lived! If you read the Letter, you will notice alarming similarities! But . . . whatever.

If anyone is interested in figuring out his mind-set at the time, you need to read this in tandem with the other materials, especially since he claimed to have spoken to Agnew. Who knows if he did; he didn't HAVE to; it was in the newspapers. But apparently some people have no interest in his mind, or what he was thinking, or how so many people got into deep problems with drugs. They were under assault at the time, and so were driven underground. Which is exactly what happened to Elvis. I don't think things would necessarily taken the course they did, if this "War on Drugs" and culture, didn't happen. He went from using to seriously abusing, and this atmosphere helped to make that happen. If you can't see that, how people can react to something like this in the wrong way, out of fear, I can't help you.

It doesn't have to say "Elvis" to have affected Elvis. He lived those times! And he entered them with some baggage, and then he found out about this. And reacted the way that he did. I thought some context would be appreciated. It took some work to get this article out of Google News. It's not downloadable.

I think some people might be offended by the suggestion? That he reacted to this? Seems clear to me, and if we don't look history in the face, we're pretty sunk. We are still living with the consequences of the "War On Drugs." Which was also a war on culture, and on the people of that culture. This also affects his musical choices at the time, his sudden attitude shift (like the Sep. 21-22 sessions, which only lasted one day, and his on-stage-out-of-character-boasting), everything. He was meeting with people in power, trying to get badges, giving money to police departments, and getting more badges . . . he actually offered what FBI drug man John Finlator considered a bribe. (Elvis called Finlator an "S.O.B." and apparently sent him A RADIO a few years later as a retirement gift.) But if you're not interested, fine.

You know, if you wish clarification, you can ask in a nice way! Instead of saying it doesn't even "belong" here.

rjm :smt100


OK, i see your point now, but I dont' agree with it.
It just seems such a long shot.
It is pure speculation.
I don't know if there is a connection, because it all seems so general to me.
Elvis wanted a badge, and he "acted" a bit to get his badge.
If Elvis paid any attention to what people thought of Hollywood and the music industry
is anyone's guess.
If Elvis actually read this article and reacted to it, well then, ok, but I don't see it without real proof.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts, rjm. Always good to take the whole context into account and don't take things on face value alone. I'm with you: the topic belongs in the all Elvis section.

---
Off topic: yesterday there was a recent interview with Robbie Williams on Dutch Television. He recalled he was only 15 when doing audition and 16 when fame struck: "Everyone who becomes famous at a young age in such a short time would lose his mind: the fame, the money, the pressure, the women, the changes, etc. I tried to deal with it drinking and doing drugs..."
---

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:33 pm

Even if Elvis didn't read it, it's informative because it highlights the social context in which Elvis' letter was written and also hints at what Agnew might have said to Elvis in their meeting.

What it doesn't tell us is the degree to which Elvis believed what he wrote in the letter. There's the argument that he just wanted the badge and so cynically set about saying what Nixon and his aides would want to hear (as informed by Agnew). I don't think that's the case. The badge was obviously in his sights, but I don't think the letter was a total fabrication of his real views.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:38 pm

rjm wrote:I got the clipping out of Google News (which is not active anymore, but they have the archive - it's hard to get to).


I use this link to browse the old newspapers on Google:
http://news.google.com/newspapers

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:50 pm

TJ wrote:Thanks for posting. It's interesting for a number of reasons, not least because Elvis apparently spoke in person with Agnew several weeks later about these very issues. It also highlights why Elvis would have expected Nixon to be receptive to his suggestions. In his mind, he was preaching to the choir.

IIRC, Agnew had a place in Palm Springs, and it's possible he crossed paths with Presley at the time. And I agree that the blatherings of the vice-president may well have been the fuel Elvis used to pry a BNDD badge from the president.


701221_BNDD Badge and ID.JPG
Elvis Presley BNDD Badge and ID, December 1970
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:38 pm

Thanks, folks. (I sometimes overreact a little, :wink: but I'm toughening up!)

Anyway, TJ, I DO think there's maybe more to it that just plain cynicism, because he did, after all, have the ear of the most powerful man on Earth at the time. And if you read it very carefully, he said some insightful things, and maybe even some things that he might have thought could have "reached" Nixon. (He was unaware that Nixon detested guns, though.) THAT is mere speculation, though: that he was trying to reach him on some sort of level . . . It's just the part where he mentions the word "enemy" and then says about America (a word that is illegible out of the context of the sentence), "I Love it." When you put "enemy" together with "Love" you get a Biblical reference to "loving your enemies." He also mentions that these "elements" "do not consider me as their enemy" which clearly tells Nixon that they consider YOU as their enemy, and what do you do about that? They consider you their enemy: how do you respond to them? With love? Was he suggesting that Nixon might try "loving his enemies"?(Nixon was a Quaker.) Now, that is really wild and crazy exegesis, but Elvis had the spiritual in mind a lot, so if one is going to analyze it . . .

That is just fooling around with it, though.

The obvious is overwhelming. He said "I have no other agenda," when he HAD another agenda. So, that's basically it. And he needed to say what he thought would be the correct things, that would accomplish his mission. (Which Krogh paraphrased: "Mission Accomplished." A riff off of a popular TV show at the time, btw.) And, it worked, even if Nixon didn't really know who the Beatles were (Krogh, in Gaar interview), or what Elvis meant by "brainwashing," or that Elvis didn't know of Nixon's antipathy toward guns.

But it closes gaps: the guys NEVER heard Elvis down the Beatles. This is agreed-upon. And that's right there in Agnew's speech, front and center. And this "brainwashing"? There it is. "The drug culture"? There it is . . . it's a blueprint.

My interest is not really in the doing of it, which seems so cynical, but in the "why?" of it. And you have to go back to that time, and get the feel of it - FEAR. (And Elvis would not be among the martyrs for this! He absolutely had no intentions of being on the wrong end of "the law." Especially after the incident with Larry at the Graceland Gates. And him being the child of a man who was on a chain gang; he was NOT going to jail! Under any circumstances, for any reason. At the time, he had no way to really know how hard they were going to crack down. And Agnew suggested that it would be hard, indeed.)

Not to mention that this was simply out there, on the front pages all over the country, and if he met with Agnew, he would be saying the same thing, either way. And after the Vegas speech, much more media coverage of the "rock-drug-culture-crisis" took place: Jimi and Janis died, within a couple weeks of one another, and the media ran with that! (It's not the media of today, but for its time, they pounced.)

Thanks, folks. (Hi Doc! ::D )

It's awful late. G'night! Or, good morning, really..

rjm (Thanks for the news archive link, TJ! Much appreciated.)

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 pm

MikeFromHolland wrote:Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts, rjm. Always good to take the whole context into account and don't take things on face value alone. I'm with you: the topic belongs in the all Elvis section.

+1 Yes, thank you RJM.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:22 pm

rjm wrote:I got the clipping out of Google News (which is not active anymore, but they have the archive - it's hard to get to).

This needs to be saved to Elvis-hard-drives everywhere! Wherever you have the Nixon Letter, put this WITH IT! And all the other materials!!! It is VERY IMPORTANT! The speech was given in Las Vegas. It was in papers all over the country, often, like this one, on the front page. Certainly in the Vegas area. I don't know how many papers it was in, there are so many! It spurred an angry backlash from rockers, obviously. Elvis decided to take a different approach. As you can see.

In Gaar, both Nixon and Krogh said to each other, after it was done: "brainwashing??" They didn't know what that was all about, and Krogh STILL seems not to know! That book is just two years old, with a fresh interview of Krogh.

Here is the clipping, like most of the other papers it was; in fact, likely identical. It was a wire story. And worth the front page. (It is definitely big enough for reading, and comfortable printing.)

VegasAgnew.jpg


rjm


You have a very inspiring way of exploring and sharing your thoughts. ::rocks


TJ wrote:Even if Elvis didn't read it, it's informative because it highlights the social context in which Elvis' letter was written and also hints at what Agnew might have said to Elvis in their meeting.

What it doesn't tell us is the degree to which Elvis believed what he wrote in the letter. There's the argument that he just wanted the badge and so cynically set about saying what Nixon and his aides would want to hear (as informed by Agnew). I don't think that's the case.The badge was obviously in his sights, but I don't think the letter was a total fabrication of his real views.



No one really knows what Elvis was thinking but imo, Elvis just wanted the Badge. Don't recall Elvis doing any of the Suggestions highlighted in "E"...

Image

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:14 pm

MikeFromHolland wrote:Thanks for sharing your interesting thoughts, rjm. Always good to take the whole context into account and don't take things on face value alone. I'm with you: the topic belongs in the all Elvis section.

---
Off topic: yesterday there was a recent interview with Robbie Williams on Dutch Television. He recalled he was only 15 when doing audition and 16 when fame struck: "Everyone who becomes famous at a young age in such a short time would lose his mind: the fame, the money, the pressure, the women, the changes, etc. I tried to deal with it drinking and doing drugs..."
---


Even at shows of amateur bands, the drugsdealers offer their "goodies" and the (often very young) women their "services". Seems being sh*gged by a bandmember is heaven for young girls. If the same guy would not be in a band, the same girl would not even look at him. The Rolling Stones, not nature's prettiest guys, took quite a bit of advantage of this.

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:56 pm

If anyone doesn't have the Nixon letter in their files, here is an entire website devoted to the Nixon meeting which includes the letter that Elvis wrote to former U.S. President, the late Richard Nixon:

The Nixon/Presley Meeting

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:28 pm

Tony Trout wrote:If anyone doesn't have the Nixon letter in their files, here is an entire website devoted to the Nixon meeting which includes the letter that Elvis wrote to former U.S. President, the late Richard Nixon:

The Nixon/Presley Meeting

......................................................................
Ty Tony - For sharing this - ::rocks

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:34 pm

karlos wrote:
Tony Trout wrote:If anyone doesn't have the Nixon letter in their files, here is an entire website devoted to the Nixon meeting which includes the letter that Elvis wrote to former U.S. President, the late Richard Nixon:

The Nixon/Presley Meeting

......................................................................
Ty Tony - For sharing this - ::rocks


Yes, Ty, Ty. :smt003

Re: Elvis's "Source" in 1970: MUST-READ!

Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:43 am

EPA4368 wrote:
rjm wrote:I got the clipping out of Google News (which is not active anymore, but they have the archive - it's hard to get to).

This needs to be saved to Elvis-hard-drives everywhere! Wherever you have the Nixon Letter, put this WITH IT! And all the other materials!!! It is VERY IMPORTANT! The speech was given in Las Vegas. It was in papers all over the country, often, like this one, on the front page. Certainly in the Vegas area. I don't know how many papers it was in, there are so many! It spurred an angry backlash from rockers, obviously. Elvis decided to take a different approach. As you can see.

In Gaar, both Nixon and Krogh said to each other, after it was done: "brainwashing??" They didn't know what that was all about, and Krogh STILL seems not to know! That book is just two years old, with a fresh interview of Krogh.

Here is the clipping, like most of the other papers it was; in fact, likely identical. It was a wire story. And worth the front page. (It is definitely big enough for reading, and comfortable printing.)

VegasAgnew.jpg


rjm


You have a very inspiring way of exploring and sharing your thoughts. ::rocks


Thank you very much! I just wanted to add some background. 1970 was a crazy year: incendiary, and frightening. Elvis was not just in the music field, but . . . well, he wasn't Pat Boone. This affected him, directly. (As to "get high on life," well Larry Geller claimed that Elvis called Lennon after seeing him say "we're scared" on the Mike Douglas Show. I don't know about that - seems very unlikely, but Larry said in "If I Can Dream" {his principal book} that Elvis told Lennon to make a single or a PSA that said "Get High On Life," and his problems would disappear. Lennon did make an anti-drug statement on TV, a bit after that. But I don't know if that phone call really happened, or if he just told Larry that he did that. I'd like to look it up sometime soon, and get Larry's exact words. Which still doesn't mean it happened at all.)

Thanks for the notes! It's all very important. And thanks, Tony, for the main link to the collection of materials!

Again, thanks folks!

rjm

EPA4368 wrote:
TJ wrote:Even if Elvis didn't read it, it's informative because it highlights the social context in which Elvis' letter was written and also hints at what Agnew might have said to Elvis in their meeting.

What it doesn't tell us is the degree to which Elvis believed what he wrote in the letter. There's the argument that he just wanted the badge and so cynically set about saying what Nixon and his aides would want to hear (as informed by Agnew). I don't think that's the case.The badge was obviously in his sights, but I don't think the letter was a total fabrication of his real views.



No one really knows what Elvis was thinking but imo, Elvis just wanted the Badge. Don't recall Elvis doing any of the Suggestions highlighted in "E"...

Image