Anything about Elvis
More than 30 Million visitors can't be wrong

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:25 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Of course, but what George Smith asks is not whether something taped before Elvis at Sun was commercially viable, but of a crossover style. What I mean is "Rockin' Chair Daddy" definitely straddles country and blues.


I agree that Harmonica Frank successfully melded two styles.

But I still think that Howard Serratt had the goods to sing anything he wanted, Food for thought: Could Serratt have recorded a credible version of "Without You"?

As for Johnny Bragg, who I also mentioned, I think he would have done a great job on "Without You", but I am not as sure about his abilty to perform more "country" material.

In any case, Sam Phillips was an excellent judge of talent and found many unique voices for his label.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:28 am

Why this doesn't deserve a sticky is the real mystery!

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:29 am

George Smith wrote:For Presley's version of "Mystery Train", Scotty Moore borrowed the guitar riff from Parker's "Love My Baby", played by Pat Hare. "Love My Baby" and "Mystery Train" are considered important contributions to the rockabilly genre.

Wikipedia


Thank you George. I didn't have to go wading through vinyl to find it! :D

And yes, this is definitely sticky material! All meat, no sauce!

rjm ::rocks

P.S. -- For those that do not know, Pat Hare recorded a song called "I'm Gonna Murder My Baby." Which he then did. smt178

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:17 am

Wouldn't it be lovely, after all these years, to finally hear the full demo version of "Without You" by the anonymous singer so we can really hear what Sam was (maybe) looking for in Elvis?

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:29 am

George Smith wrote:Wouldn't it be lovely, after all these years, to finally hear the full demo version of "Without You" by the anonymous singer so we can really hear what Sam was (maybe) looking for in Elvis?


I think it's possible to go to the library there, and have a listen. Particularly if you have a scholarly reason. It's in their holdings.

Would be better to liberate it, though!

rjm

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:38 am

rjm wrote:I think it's possible to go to the library there, and have a listen. rjm


Seriously ?


How come no one's snuck in there with a small digital recorder up their sleeve?

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:16 am

George Smith wrote:
rjm wrote:I think it's possible to go to the library there, and have a listen. rjm


Seriously ?


How come no one's snuck in there with a small digital recorder up their sleeve?

Now, George, you know that is illegal.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:49 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
George Smith wrote:
rjm wrote:I think it's possible to go to the library there, and have a listen. rjm


Seriously ?


How come no one's snuck in there with a small digital recorder up their sleeve?

Now, George, you know that is illegal.


Well ... ah, hell ... yes, you're right.

Damnit.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:09 pm

promiseland wrote:Why this doesn't deserve a sticky is the real mystery!

I was going to post the same thing!

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:46 pm

Rtn 2 Sndr wrote:It would be interesting to compile and analyze all of Elvis' recordings of "That's All Right" between 1954 and 1977 as a metaphor for the ebb and flow of his musical career. From the innocence of 1954, to the increased energy and assurance of 1955-56, to the confident performance of 1961 in Hawaii, to the reckless abandon of June 1968, to the slickness of the early Las Vegas era, and culminating in a back to basics approach in his final tours, Elvis made this song a constant in his performances. Elvis always paid homage to the song that represented his big break.

Just following up on this suggestion, I've listened through many of the live takes hoping to pick up any clues with regard to the origins of "That's All Right".

Intriguingly, Elvis rarely gave the title of this song before singing it on stage. However, at Pearl Harbour in 1961 he does offer this:

I’d like to do the very first record that we ever made. This was for the Sun Record people in Memphis, Tennessee, where / when we first started out. I hope you remember, it’s called, “That’s All Right (err),Mama”.

And this indicates that Elvis knew the song by its alternative and popular title (the original Crudup release omitted the "Mama" from the label).

Also, there's this fascinating introduction from the first sit-down show in 1968:

The first thing that we recorded, the very first thing, was an old rhythm and blues type song called “That’s All Right, Little Mama”.

Why would Elvis have used this title? Was he putting two songs together accidentally in his head?

Or was this maybe ... just maybe ... the title of the song he "wrote" and played for Johnny Black way back when?
Last edited by George Smith on Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:45 am

George Smith, one thing interesting about Elvis' live performances of this song is that, unlike some of his million-selling 50s hits, "That's All Right" always received a respectful, heartfelt performance. The only time I recall hearing Elvis clown around on the song was one performance on the Louisiana Hayride, as released on A Boy From Tupelo.

Elvis obviously cared a lot about this song, even before he stepped into 706 Union Avenue for the first time.

Once again, this is a great topic.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:54 am

George Smith wrote:
Rtn 2 Sndr wrote:It would be interesting to compile and analyze all of Elvis' recordings of "That's All Right" between 1954 and 1977 as a metaphor for the ebb and flow of his musical career. From the innocence of 1954, to the increased energy and assurance of 1955-56, to the confident performance of 1961 in Hawaii, to the reckless abandon of June 1968, to the slickness of the early Las Vegas era, and culminating in a back to basics approach in his final tours, Elvis made this song a constant in his performances. Elvis always paid homage to the song that represented his big break.

Just following up on this suggestion, I've listened through many of the live takes hoping to pick up any clues with regard to the origins of "That's All Right".

Intriguingly, Elvis rarely gave the title of this song before singing it on stage. However, at Pearl Harbour in 1961 he does offer this:

I’d like to do the very first record that we ever made. This was for the Sun Record people in Memphis, Tennessee, where / when we first started out. I hope you remember, it’s called, “That’s All Right (err),Mama”.

And this indicates that Elvis knew the song by it's alternative and popular title (the original Crudup release omitted the "Mama" from the label).

Also, there's this fascinating introduction from the first sit-down show in 1968:

The first thing that we recorded, the very first thing, was an old rhythm and blues type song called “That’s All Right, Little Mama”.

Why would Elvis have used this title? Was he putting two songs together accidentally in his head?

Or was this maybe ... just maybe ... the title of the song he "wrote" and played for Johnny Black way back when?

I used to feel Presley was just conflating the Crudup and Clovers singles. But, given your argument on this wonderful topic, your suggestion is more than a little plausible.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:15 am

George, that is a brilliant bit of brainstorming! Now that we've all heard "Little Mama," it's hard to listen to him say this in the old way. He DID sing a song called "Little Mama." And we don't know exactly what he rehearsed on that lawn.

The Clovers release was apparently recorded on September 24, 1953, and released in '54. Intriguing. Would definitely be on his mind when he was running down "That's All Right, Mama." Very easy to conflate, not just in his mind, but in the music. Being on a lawn is not the same thing as being in a studio, late, with everyone ready to give up. The stress changes everything. So, he did change some lyrics, and the whole feel and style is quite different. But maybe he didn't want to go too far, as far as interleaving the two songs, which is something he later did with songs, and wouldn't be unusual in his musical imagination at all.

We don't know, and we'll never know. But we'll never hear him say that the same way again! Thanks once again, George!

rjm

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:56 pm

elvisjock wrote:One of the greatest posts in the history of FECC. Lord, have mercy.

YES INDEED!

Brilliant & thought provoking.

Thanks
Cheers
Piers

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:27 am

Thank you, John, rj and Piers for your comments and kudos.

I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of this mystery but it shouldn't prevent us from asking the questions.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Briljant post, George! I highly enjoyed reading it.

Maybe you could shed a light on my topic?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72742

Thank you!

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:19 am

Thank you, David - please see my temporary response to your topic.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:37 am

I just revisited all three pages of this topic and must say it remains a WONDERFUL read.

Thank you, George Smith.

Post more often, please!

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:34 pm

What a fantastic piece of research! I haven't dropped by for quite a while, but I'm glad I caught this thread - well done George and all concerned! Can I just point out that the guitarist on Little Junior's "Love My Baby" and "Mystery Train" isn't Pat Hare, though; it is a Memphis musician called Floyd Murphy whose party piece was apparently to make his rhythmic guitar playing sound like two guitars. Because of his ability, many blues fans speculated that there were two guitarists on the session and, because Pat Hare was known to have joined the Blue Flames a few months later, that he was present at the session and was taking the solos, however it has long been verified that there is just the one guitarist on the session - Floyd Murphy.
Incidentally, Floyd's little brother M T "Matt" Murphy became a famous blues guitarist (notably with Memphis Slim) in his own right and starred in "The Blues Brothers" film.
For more information about Floyd, try this link http://www.genevared.com/murpbio.htm

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:26 am

Congratulations, Mr. Smith and thank you very much for this marvellous thread! ::rocks

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 am

davepenny wrote:What a fantastic piece of research! I haven't dropped by for quite a while, but I'm glad I caught this thread - well done George and all concerned! Can I just point out that the guitarist on Little Junior's "Love My Baby" and "Mystery Train" isn't Pat Hare, though; it is a Memphis musician called Floyd Murphy whose party piece was apparently to make his rhythmic guitar playing sound like two guitars. Because of his ability, many blues fans speculated that there were two guitarists on the session and, because Pat Hare was known to have joined the Blue Flames a few months later, that he was present at the session and was taking the solos, however it has long been verified that there is just the one guitarist on the session - Floyd Murphy.
Incidentally, Floyd's little brother M T "Matt" Murphy became a famous blues guitarist (notably with Memphis Slim) in his own right and starred in "The Blues Brothers" film.
For more information about Floyd, try this link http://www.genevared.com/murpbio.htm

davepenny, thank you for this additional information!

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:47 am

davepenny wrote:What a fantastic piece of research! I haven't dropped by for quite a while, but I'm glad I caught this thread - well done George and all concerned! Can I just point out that the guitarist on Little Junior's "Love My Baby" and "Mystery Train" isn't Pat Hare, though; it is a Memphis musician called Floyd Murphy whose party piece was apparently to make his rhythmic guitar playing sound like two guitars. Because of his ability, many blues fans speculated that there were two guitarists on the session and, because Pat Hare was known to have joined the Blue Flames a few months later, that he was present at the session and was taking the solos, however it has long been verified that there is just the one guitarist on the session - Floyd Murphy.
Incidentally, Floyd's little brother M T "Matt" Murphy became a famous blues guitarist (notably with Memphis Slim) in his own right and starred in "The Blues Brothers" film.
For more information about Floyd, try this link http://www.genevared.com/murpbio.htm


I'm listening to "Love My Baby" as I write, and what a guitarist! And oddly, at times, he sounds VERY "twangy" - very rockabilly, sometimes, more than Scotty would sound as time went on! ("Mystery Train" - Elvis's version, sounds totally bluesy to me and it's supposedly based on this. But this is more "hillbilly," if you will, than Scotty is on that particular record. And certainly more so than on later records that were very famous.) And yes, you can hear some very different things going on! Definitely sounds like it can be two people.

Another thank you!

rjm

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:03 am

Just uploaded this version:

Ishman Bracey.

First recorded, 1928, but unissued. Crudup heard this from him, because Jefferson was long dead, and he was there where Bracey was performing in the '40s.

Listen for the lines at 2:23 to 2:47

phpBB [video]



rjm

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:13 am

Brilliant Thread George -
Loved Reading It -
Well Done -
Keep Up Your Great Work Here -
::rocks
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: The Crudup Connection: 5 July 1954 Revisited

Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:54 pm

Karlos, you are very kind, thank you.