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Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:50 am

Hi, I am not sure this w ill help the debate at all but I found this very interesting although at times very technical.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/a ... brauer.htm

Sorry not sure how to set up a hyperlink. It seems Brauer does use liberal compression but not uniformly. He listens to each song individually and does what he feels is right in relation to that song. He uses analogue equipment not digital and is driven by the feel and emotion of the performance. He applies compression to individual tracks or channels. It's a long article and certainlbbacks up the fact he uses compression but rightly or wrongly I took from it that he applies it in order to achieve a feeling or emotion rather than being driven to achieve loudness for the sake of it. Of course the end result might be the same but I took some positives from this. I hope you find it interesting

Cheers Jamie

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:59 am

Jamie wrote:Hi, I am not sure this w ill help the debate at all but I found this very interesting although at times very technical.
It seems Brauer does use liberal compression but not uniformly. He listens to each song individually and does what he feels is right in relation to that song. He uses analogue equipment not digital and is driven by the feel and emotion of the performance. He applies compression to individual tracks or channels. It's a long article and certainlbbacks up the fact he uses compression but rightly or wrongly I took from it that he applies it in order to achieve a feeling or emotion rather than being driven to achieve loudness for the sake of it. Of course the end result might be the same but I took some positives from this. I hope you find it interesting
Cheers Jamie

Thanks Jamie, this is very interesting, I would never try to understand it all but it does look promising to me. I just can't see how this guy is going to give us a CD with audio like we are hearing in the Mp3s. I do not have the answer as to what is going on but I do have to beleive that they are faulty somehow.

billyblues wrote:David:
You are right when it comes to fatigue. They do make you uncomfortable (poor quality MP3 files)... I can also feel it. But that happens when it comes to listening for a long time. I could feel my ears screaming for mercy after half a minute of That's All Right! I had this kind of experience before and sure enough the problem was with LOUD MASTERING (caps loud! :lol: ). So that's why I am of the opinion that we may have a problem with the music and not the files...
That is, of course, my opinion. :wink:

Billy yes, I did say 'I have not before had a problem after so instantly as these files in question'.

It is nice to see we agree - both of us and others can feel it in less than half a minute, it is more like 10 seconds for me now actually!

But you have not said what you find with listening to the video sample? i am interested for more than one reason, importantly I just can't imagine Sony releasing a CD that we will get this reaction to, I have never heard of such a thing [no pun intended] So you see why I am sceptical of something wrong with the MP3s, or what?

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:22 pm

Elvis Australia wrote:
Jamie wrote:Hi, I am not sure this w ill help the debate at all but I found this very interesting although at times very technical.
It seems Brauer does use liberal compression but not uniformly. He listens to each song individually and does what he feels is right in relation to that song. He uses analogue equipment not digital and is driven by the feel and emotion of the performance. He applies compression to individual tracks or channels. It's a long article and certainlbbacks up the fact he uses compression but rightly or wrongly I took from it that he applies it in order to achieve a feeling or emotion rather than being driven to achieve loudness for the sake of it. Of course the end result might be the same but I took some positives from this. I hope you find it interesting
Cheers Jamie

Thanks Jamie, this is very interesting, I would never try to understand it all but it does look promising to me. I just can't see how this guy is going to give us a CD with audio like we are hearing in the Mp3s. I do not have the answer as to what is going on but I do have to beleive that they are faulty somehow.

billyblues wrote:David:
You are right when it comes to fatigue. They do make you uncomfortable (poor quality MP3 files)... I can also feel it. But that happens when it comes to listening for a long time. I could feel my ears screaming for mercy after half a minute of That's All Right! I had this kind of experience before and sure enough the problem was with LOUD MASTERING (caps loud! :lol: ). So that's why I am of the opinion that we may have a problem with the music and not the files...
That is, of course, my opinion. :wink:

Billy yes, I did say 'I have not before had a problem after so instantly as these files in question'.

It is nice to see we agree - both of us and others can feel it in less than half a minute, it is more like 10 seconds for me now actually!

But you have not said what you find with listening to the video sample? i am interested for more than one reason, importantly I just can't imagine Sony releasing a CD that we will get this reaction to, I have never heard of such a thing [no pun intended] So you see why I am sceptical of something wrong with the MP3s, or what?


Are you saying that you don't think they would release a CD that has a much-trumpeted sound but turns out to sound bad? Well, it wasn't Sony back then but The Alternate Aloha is a good example.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:31 pm

Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Both Editions will be released on 10/26/2012 in Germany.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:02 pm

Wonderstuffer wrote:Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Sorry to disappoint you, but if those samples are the genuine article, then the Legacy Edition of the afternoon show does include the 1997 Ferrante mix.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:09 pm

Wonderstuffer wrote:Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Both Editions will be released on 10/26/2012 in Germany.

The tracks are the same clips for both sets.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:27 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
Wonderstuffer wrote:Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Both Editions will be released on 10/26/2012 in Germany.

The tracks are the same clips for both sets.

No they're not.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:02 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
Wonderstuffer wrote:Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Both Editions will be released on 10/26/2012 in Germany.

The tracks are the same clips for both sets.

No they're not.

Yes they are...

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:04 pm

Ernst Jorgensen, will you please step in on this and settle the sound issues on these releases once and for all?

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:16 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
Wonderstuffer wrote:Hi,

amazon.de have now added soundsamples for both editions:
http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Prince-Another-Planet-Version/dp/B008QZ9E6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939147&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.de/Elvis-Recorded-Madison-Square-Garden/dp/B008PZ69Q6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349939168&sr=8-2

The samples from Prince from another Planet sounds a bit better, but quite loud.

The samples from the Legacy Edition proof that the Afternoon show is not the Ferrante mix!

Both Editions will be released on 10/26/2012 in Germany.

The tracks are the same clips for both sets.

No they're not.

Yes they are...

No they're not...

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:17 pm

Blue River wrote:Ernst Jorgensen, will you please step in on this and settle the sound issues on these releases once and for all?



Ernst and Vic are too busy working on the Legacy Release of "Aloha From Hawaii" 2 Disc Set set for release in November, 2013.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:26 pm

The amazon samples answer a lot of questions.
Again I think the "2012" mix is an improvement on the afternoon show.
The mix on the evening show sounds similar to the afternoon gig so the sound is consistent.

I listened to "For the good times", 2012 mix and I noticed the backing vocals are now upfront in the mix.
Bummer as Elvis vocal is laid back but very good and now the effect is slightly ruined.

In general however, the evening mix sounds good.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:08 am

Even discounting the obvious disparities in audio processing, you will note the following channel configuration differences on the audio samples provided by Amazon:
(Take note "elvis-fan"...)

Suspicious Minds - AFTERNOON - ("Legacy" - 1997 Ferrante mix) PIANO - Left / ORCHESTRA - Right

Suspicious Minds - AFTERNOON - ("Prince") PIANO - Right / ORCHESTRA - Centre

Never Been To Spain - EVENING - ("Legacy") PIANO - Left / GUITAR - Centre

Never Been To Spain - EVENING - ("Prince") PIANO - Right / GUITAR - Left

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:00 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
Blue River wrote:Ernst Jorgensen, will you please step in on this and settle the sound issues on these releases once and for all?

Ernst and Vic are too busy working on the Legacy Release of "Aloha From Hawaii" 2 Disc Set set for release in November, 2013.

Maybe even April, 2013.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:40 am

Blue River wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
Blue River wrote:Ernst Jorgensen, will you please step in on this and settle the sound issues on these releases once and for all?

Ernst and Vic are too busy working on the Legacy Release of "Aloha From Hawaii" 2 Disc Set set for release in November, 2013.

Maybe even April, 2013.


it`s coming and it`s closer to april then it is to november :D

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:06 am

Hi,

Sorry, my mistake! I compared it with an asian gold plated disc of the afternoon show were the channels seemed to be reversed. The afternoon show on the legacy edition is in fact the Ferrante mix, but it sounds less boomy and more dry than the original `97 release.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:13 am

poormadpeter wrote:Are you saying that you don't think they would release a CD that has a much-trumpeted sound but turns out to sound bad? Well, it wasn't Sony back then but The Alternate Aloha is a good example.

No.

The Alternate Aloha had music overdubed that was obivously to you - and to me - disliked, but it was not faulty as such, it was not distorted like these MP3s. You can't compare these.

But I may be able to offer one example for you. The Complete 50s Masters. Speaking for my self I could not listen to the set for long and never did know why until later in the 90s when i was online and the Master And Session website had the article The King of Rock and Roll: :The Complete 50's Insult. it was nice to find i wasn't alone and in fact the article demonstrated the problem very well.

Of interest just looking at this article again today I see they mention 'dynamic compression' and take a look at the first graph on the page, [for 'Hound Dog'], It is just so similar to the two i posted the other day!

Image

No one has complained about trhe sound in the video which is very interesting.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:08 pm

Blue River wrote:Ernst Jorgensen, will you please step in on this and settle the sound issues on these releases once and for all?

I PM'd Ernst and received a very simple reply.

Me:
There are sound quality issues that are being discusssed and argued over concerning the remixing and/or remastering of the Prince From Another Plant release and the Madison Square Garden LEGACY EDITION release.
Please tell us exactly what has been remixed and please give us any other details concerning the sound quality of these shows that might be of interest to us here on FECC.

Thank you, sir!


Ernst:
The deluxe version of MSG - with the video - has both shows remixed by Michael Brauer.
The regular Legacy edition features the original mixes from MSG and AN AFTERNOON.

Ernst
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That didn't tell me/us anything that we didn't already know.
It makes me wonder if this reply was genuinely from him.

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:19 pm

I take it that "Prince" is remixed and that the Legacy edition is the original mixes, but the new remasters as on the CM set then? 8)

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:23 pm

bajo wrote:I take it that "Prince" is remixed and that the Legacy edition is the original mixes, but the new remasters as on the CM set then? 8)

The Legacy edition will be the original mix, but remastered (just like what is on the CM set).

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:26 pm

Then we're on the same track Blue River. I'll get them both, since I don't have the CM set, yet! :)

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:18 pm

bajo wrote:Then we're on the same track Blue River. I'll get them both, since I don't have the CM set, yet! :)


Well thanks for clearing that. For me it was clear from the start: Prince From Another Planet it is going to be!

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:01 pm

Can't say that I disagree that it seemed like the music on the video sounded a bit better, but the mixing on Elvis' vocals is there - that much I noticed. I'll have to give it a better listen to give a sincere opinion (I didn't have the audio at full volume when watching the footage and I watched it once, so...).

Re: ‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:03 pm

bajo wrote:I take it that "Prince" is remixed and that the Legacy edition is the original mixes, but the new remasters as on the CM set then? 8)


I think that about nails it, the mixes on the CM arent bad, but if after 40 years u want a new sound, it has to the Prince, no contest ......

‘Prince From Another Planet’ samples

Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:54 am

Vic Anesini has remastered Ferrante mixes in the past, including June/Sept 1970 masters, and Feb 1972 live material - amongst others. Perhaps Sony consider the 1997 CD to be the "original mix" for the Afternoon Show. It will be interesting to compare the '97 disc to the new Legacy remaster of that mix.