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Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:08 pm

hli wrote:So we are not that strange with bad and painfull releases of our man ...

Yes, let's officially release more "bad and painful" video artifacts of the Presley career. We have absolutely no other options.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:31 pm

Out respect for our guy, lets release his many great moments! If a clip of EIC was used as perhaps in a documentary subject, (hence a movie or such), then I wouldn't mind as it's the final chapter in his life and for history purposes, should be told.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:17 pm

midnightx wrote:It was an hour spectacle. The footage was damaging and probably very difficult to work with. CBS was obviously concerned with what it had to work with prior to Elvis' death. Once he died and they knew something needed to be pieced together, an appropriate edit was put together. A couple of tracks substituted for others would not have saved the EIC train-wreck.


Probably the most balanced post I've read on the CBS special in a while.

A lot of people seem to lose objectivity in their quest for some spark of life in Elvis' performance in the special because views are tainted by the foreknowledge of what was to happen a few weeks later. I'm not saying that there aren't such moments in the footage but let's face it the special could have consisted of the slightly better Indianapolis performance and it would still have been damaging for Elvis' career if he had lived.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:00 pm

KevR wrote:... let's face it the special could have consisted of the slightly better Indianapolis performance and it would still have been damaging for Elvis' career if he had lived.


That is pretty much the point I was trying to make originally. What were Elvis and the Colonel thinking? Had he lived and the 'special' aired what would the future have been? It is the responsibility of a Manager/Agent to give their client the best advice. I remember Myrna Smith (R.I.P) stating in 'Careless Love' that Jerry Shilling asked her how Elvis was looking for the shows and she said 'He looks great'! What planet was everybody on?

I agree with the comments from IMETJB and Joe Carr that you can't ignore this as part of the man's legacy but I'm more interested in the what and the why than the show itself that i wouldn't lose sleep over if I didn't see again.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:23 pm

IMETJB wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:
IMETJB wrote:
londonflash wrote:On a side note, maybe the more familiar the images become, the less their ability to shock is? Certainly that way for me..


I would agree. Unfortunately, many "fans" simply do not care. They don't care to figure out 1) why it is they want the footage, 2) how they feel about having the public reminded of this footage and 3) what they expect the general reaction will be once this footage is released. Somehow, they believe the public is ready for the footage and wouldn't blink an eye if it were released.

I still cannot understand how any sane fan can push for this footage to be officially released in its complete form.

Their was more damage done to elvis presleys image by so call impersonators than there was or will everybe done by the cbs footage.

Well, considering many of the impersonators got their inspiration from EIC, EIC still is the leader of the pack.

they were well there before 77


Really? Were they sweaty and overweight, mocking Elvis' image?

There are many ETA's that aren't overweight. And sweaty is good - you don't put on a good show without sweating buckets lol.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:16 pm

Delboy wrote:That is pretty much the point I was trying to make originally. What were Elvis and the Colonel thinking? Had he lived and the 'special' aired what would the future have been? It is the responsibility of a Manager/Agent to give their client the best advice.

There is no doubt that the CBS/EIC debacle was Tom Parker throwing in the towel and simply trying to extract any and all dollars remaining before Elvis completely crashed. Parker wasn't oblivious to reality; he knew Elvis was on fumes. Parker had always gone to great lengths to keep Elvis' problems or deficiencies "quiet" and now he was exposing them and placing them on a silver platter for the world to see on a mass scale. No manager in the entertainment business would have subjected their star client to such damaging scrutiny. Even worse, the deal was consummated for $750,000 and that fee was to be split 50/50 between Elvis and his manager, with his manager also receiving additional funds for his usual consultation fee. In addition, Elvis had to pay his musicians and staff out of his cut. And after taxes, Elvis would have walked away with under $150,000. A small price to pay for the severe damage to a career. Well done Tom Parker! What a tragedy. But, hey; let's get this thing out on Blu-ray for the fans!!!

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:30 pm

i just want to add i never said that ''EIC'' should be released to the general public. Its only for fans that can acceapt it as being part of elvis legacy.
its your choice if you chose to ignore it.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:58 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
hli wrote:So we are not that strange with bad and painfull releases of our man ...

Yes, let's officially release more "bad and painful" video artifacts of the Presley career. We have absolutely no other options.


Yes absolutely, together with some bad editing it will do the job.
But seriously that line you quote had a more sarcasm meaning rather than beeing serious.

The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:44 pm

hli wrote:The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

That's ridiculous, as the films have been in public view for more than 40 years. The fallout from them was minimal, as evidenced by the strong reception to Elvis' 1968 TV Special, the American Sound recordings released in 1969 and 1970, and his mighty return to the stage in 1969. No one was lamenting "Ol' MacDonald" when "Suspicious Minds" was #1 on the charts.

The audio and video recordings made by CBS-TV and RCA in June 1977 are a shambles, examples of a great artist who is very ill and unable to perform his music with the skill of past days. They are perhaps the worst recordings of his career, with one or two exceptions. They do not need to be further promoted via an official release in the DVD or Blu-Ray format.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:58 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
hli wrote:The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

That's ridiculous, as the films have been in public view for more than 40 years. The fallout from them was minimal, as evidenced by the strong reception to Elvis' 1968 TV Special, the American Sound recordings released in 1969 and 1970, and his mighty return to the stage in 1969. No one was lamenting "Ol' MacDonald" when "Suspicious Minds" was #1 on the charts.

The audio and video recordings made by CBS-TV and RCA in June 1977 are a shambles, examples of a great artist who is very ill and unable to perform his music with the skill of past days. They are perhaps the worst recordings of his career, with one or two exceptions. They do not need to be further promoted via an official release in the DVD or Blu-Ray format.

its the understanding Elvis fan that can acceapt EIC as part of his legacy, and i am not talking general public release or blu-ray either.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:34 pm

I was 32 when Elvis died having been a fan since age 11, and my reaction when watching EIC soon after was "Elvis what have you done to yourself" I was close to tears watching it. Someone who also watched it (not with me) said afterwoods that it was disgusting that they should televise the show with the star obviously so ill, and the Jailhouse Rock sequence where he was trying to move but just wobled like a jelly, does sum it all up.

I woudn't object to it being made available to those fans who would like a copy, but certainly not to the general public.
Last edited by Chris Roberts on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:34 pm

Then this is financially viable for EPE how?

Geoff

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:45 pm

tupelo_boy wrote:Then this is financially viable for EPE how?

Geoff


Not sure if you were asking me this Tupelo Boy, as our posts were posted at the same time.

But as we know DVD's like CD's can be produced very cheaply and it could possibly be made available through fan clubs.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:50 pm

Chris Roberts wrote:
tupelo_boy wrote:Then this is financially viable for EPE how?

Geoff


Not sure if you were asking me this Tupelo Boy, as our posts were posted at the same time.

But as we know DVD's like CD's can be produced very cheaply and it could possibly be made available through fan clubs.


No Chris, it was Rizzyble's post I was replying to. I would have thought the costs on a DVD with a very limited run would have been more difficult to recoup than a CD, if only for the technical effort of producing a "watchable" version of EIC.

Geoff

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:54 pm

I agree, they are fairly cheap to produce ,could and should be made available through maybe fan club's,to members that may want it. EPE are not a charity I understand that , but they have made and continue to make plenty of money therefore why not give something back to the people who want this ,that way only the individuals who wish to buy it may do so ,and others who dont want it dont have to buy it .

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:56 pm

midnightx wrote:There is no doubt that the CBS/EIC debacle was Tom Parker throwing in the towel and simply trying to extract any and all dollars remaining before Elvis completely crashed. Parker wasn't oblivious to reality; he knew Elvis was on fumes. Parker had always gone to great lengths to keep Elvis' problems or deficiencies "quiet" and now he was exposing them and placing them on a silver platter for the world to see on a mass scale. No manager in the entertainment business would have subjected their star client to such damaging scrutiny. Even worse, the deal was consummated for $750,000 and that fee was to be split 50/50 between Elvis and his manager, with his manager also receiving additional funds for his usual consultation fee. In addition, Elvis had to pay his musicians and staff out of his cut. And after taxes, Elvis would have walked away with under $150,000. A small price to pay for the severe damage to a career. Well done Tom Parker! What a tragedy. But, hey; let's get this thing out on Blu-ray for the fans!!!


Where is Luuk when needed?

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:03 am

rizzy56 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
hli wrote:The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

That's ridiculous, as the films have been in public view for more than 40 years. The fallout from them was minimal, as evidenced by the strong reception to Elvis' 1968 TV Special, the American Sound recordings released in 1969 and 1970, and his mighty return to the stage in 1969. No one was lamenting "Ol' MacDonald" when "Suspicious Minds" was #1 on the charts.

The audio and video recordings made by CBS-TV and RCA in June 1977 are a shambles, examples of a great artist who is very ill and unable to perform his music with the skill of past days. They are perhaps the worst recordings of his career, with one or two exceptions. They do not need to be further promoted via an official release in the DVD or Blu-Ray format.

its the understanding Elvis fan that can acceapt EIC as part of his legacy, and i am not talking general public release or blu-ray either.

Yes, the "understanding fan" does accept EIC and what it did to Elvis' legacy. The delusional fan celebrates EIC and attempts to elevate it alongside Elvis' greatest achievements. It is not surprising you have not figured out the difference.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:04 am

javilu wrote:
midnightx wrote:There is no doubt that the CBS/EIC debacle was Tom Parker throwing in the towel and simply trying to extract any and all dollars remaining before Elvis completely crashed. Parker wasn't oblivious to reality; he knew Elvis was on fumes. Parker had always gone to great lengths to keep Elvis' problems or deficiencies "quiet" and now he was exposing them and placing them on a silver platter for the world to see on a mass scale. No manager in the entertainment business would have subjected their star client to such damaging scrutiny. Even worse, the deal was consummated for $750,000 and that fee was to be split 50/50 between Elvis and his manager, with his manager also receiving additional funds for his usual consultation fee. In addition, Elvis had to pay his musicians and staff out of his cut. And after taxes, Elvis would have walked away with under $150,000. A small price to pay for the severe damage to a career. Well done Tom Parker! What a tragedy. But, hey; let's get this thing out on Blu-ray for the fans!!!


Where is Luuk when needed?


Here is Luuk's response: "Elvis would not have done the special if he did not want to. Elvis would not have agreed to the 50/50 revenue split if he did not think Parker was worth it. Parker still got CBS to pay $750,000. What deal-maker!"

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:08 am

tupelo_boy wrote:
Chris Roberts wrote:
tupelo_boy wrote:Then this is financially viable for EPE how?

Geoff


Not sure if you were asking me this Tupelo Boy, as our posts were posted at the same time.

But as we know DVD's like CD's can be produced very cheaply and it could possibly be made available through fan clubs.


No Chris, it was Rizzyble's post I was replying to. I would have thought the costs on a DVD with a very limited run would have been more difficult to recoup than a CD, if only for the technical effort of producing a "watchable" version of EIC.

Geoff

Well simpelo boy i think EPE have enough money in their pockets to at least put it on DVD for the fans.....nahh forget that i look forward too Mr Elvis potato head 50s style.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:14 am

midnightx wrote:
rizzy56 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
hli wrote:The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

That's ridiculous, as the films have been in public view for more than 40 years. The fallout from them was minimal, as evidenced by the strong reception to Elvis' 1968 TV Special, the American Sound recordings released in 1969 and 1970, and his mighty return to the stage in 1969. No one was lamenting "Ol' MacDonald" when "Suspicious Minds" was #1 on the charts.

The audio and video recordings made by CBS-TV and RCA in June 1977 are a shambles, examples of a great artist who is very ill and unable to perform his music with the skill of past days. They are perhaps the worst recordings of his career, with one or two exceptions. They do not need to be further promoted via an official release in the DVD or Blu-Ray format.

its the understanding Elvis fan that can acceapt EIC as part of his legacy, and i am not talking general public release or blu-ray either.

Yes, the "understanding fan" does accept EIC and what it did to Elvis' legacy. The delusional fan celebrates EIC and attempts to elevate it alongside Elvis' greatest achievements. It is not surprising you have not figured out the difference.

What ever you think or your opinion might be its still an important part of his legacy that one can not ignore.
its the delusional fan that likes to hide it.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:26 am

midnightx wrote:
Here is Luuk's response: "Elvis would not have done the special if he did not want to. Elvis would not have agreed to the 50/50 revenue split if he did not think Parker was worth it. Parker still got CBS to pay $750,000. What deal-maker!"


Hahaha, Elvis sucked as a businessman and decision making in general.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:24 am

I can sit through the CBS Special. What I have a hard time dealing with is the Omaha concert itself.

That hurts.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:03 am

midnightx wrote:
Delboy wrote:That is pretty much the point I was trying to make originally. What were Elvis and the Colonel thinking? Had he lived and the 'special' aired what would the future have been? It is the responsibility of a Manager/Agent to give their client the best advice.

There is no doubt that the CBS/EIC debacle was Tom Parker throwing in the towel and simply trying to extract any and all dollars remaining before Elvis completely crashed. Parker wasn't oblivious to reality; he knew Elvis was on fumes. Parker had always gone to great lengths to keep Elvis' problems or deficiencies "quiet" and now he was exposing them and placing them on a silver platter for the world to see on a mass scale. No manager in the entertainment business would have subjected their star client to such damaging scrutiny. Even worse, the deal was consummated for $750,000 and that fee was to be split 50/50 between Elvis and his manager, with his manager also receiving additional funds for his usual consultation fee. In addition, Elvis had to pay his musicians and staff out of his cut. And after taxes, Elvis would have walked away with under $150,000. A small price to pay for the severe damage to a career. Well done Tom Parker! What a tragedy. But, hey; let's get this thing out on Blu-ray for the fans!!!



Wasn't "The Final Curtain" release enough !

I agree with others and don't want EIC on a DVD/Blu Ray.
Jeez midnightx the last part of your comment reminds me of the black and white classic flick THE HARDER THEY FALL where poor Toro the boxer was left with hardly any dough :twisted:

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:29 am

I have been a fan since the summer of 1968. I enjoyed the magnificence of the Singer and Aloha specials when they first aired. I saw Elvis in 1972 on opening night at the Garden.

I watched this special when it first aired and was deeply saddened by what I saw. I had access to all the outtakes when I worked on "This is Elvis" and the "Great Performances." In fact, my brother was the one who suggested the inclusion of "Unchained Melody" in that project. The producers and Estate were initially opposed to it, but finally decided it was a performance worth including.

I have no desire to see that footage again. As a lifelong fan, it's just too depressing.

Bob

PS - CBS had nothing to do with the edits on the original special. Those were all done and submitted to the network by the producers, Gary Smith and Dwight Hemion.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:44 am

rizzy56 wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
hli wrote:The point i was trying to make (in my best english writing :( ) that when talking about the CBS show, musically spoken worser things have been released. I'm not saying they should release it but when talking about legacy damage as some state here than for example complete movies should be locked up forever.

That's ridiculous, as the films have been in public view for more than 40 years. The fallout from them was minimal, as evidenced by the strong reception to Elvis' 1968 TV Special, the American Sound recordings released in 1969 and 1970, and his mighty return to the stage in 1969. No one was lamenting "Ol' MacDonald" when "Suspicious Minds" was #1 on the charts.

The audio and video recordings made by CBS-TV and RCA in June 1977 are a shambles, examples of a great artist who is very ill and unable to perform his music with the skill of past days. They are perhaps the worst recordings of his career, with one or two exceptions. They do not need to be further promoted via an official release in the DVD or Blu-Ray format.

its the understanding Elvis fan that can acceapt EIC as part of his legacy, and i am not talking general public release or blu-ray either.

Cool. Pick up one of the many iterations of EIC issued on private DVDs and go to town.