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Re: 1971

Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:51 pm

GREAT POST! Love the album and ideas behind it. I for one would buy it!

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:26 am

THANKS for such a wonderful and entertaining post. Enjoyed everybit of it. Thanks for your time.

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:52 am

Further findings on Ivory Joe Hunter's "I Will Be True".

The first thing to point out is that this is a ridiculously elusive song compared to almost any other track in Hunter's catalogue (it's almost as if it's been deliberately wiped from the records).

As far as I can tell, the song has only been released twice:

1) as the original B-Side of "I'm Sorry For You, My Friend" in 1952 (as per the Doc's picture)

2) and again on this ultra-rare beauty from early February 1957 (original copies going for $300)
lf.jpg

The LP, which gathers together a selection of his MGM hits, was released to capitalise on his then current success on the Atlantic label.

It was reviewed in the 2 February 1957 issue of Billboard and, interestingly, also contains Hunter's "I Need You So".

Elvis had already tried (and failed) to record this song on 1 September 1956: maybe the release of this LP inspired him to try agin and he nailed the track on 23 February 1957.

-----------------------------------------------

With regard to the question of a possible 1971 meeting between Joe and Elvis, the only thought I can offer is that Hunter died in Memphis in 1974: maybe he'd been living there for a few years beforehand.

If so, it makes the possibilty of a meeting just that little bit more feaseable: but ultimately, there's no proof.

----------------------------------------------

Finally, who is "Kyle"?

The logical possibilities are these:

a) it's a mistake
b) we're talking about two completely different songs
c) it's a Norman Petty type fraud
d) it really was written by someone called Kyle (maybe Billy Kyle, a jazz pianist)
e) it's an Ivory Joe alias, perhaps for tax or legal purposes

It's worth noting that another Hunter B-Side, "The Big Bounce", from March 1951 carries the writer credit Kyle / Kessell (maybe Barney).

Ivory Joe's publishing situation is somewhat complicated: some of his tracks are on St Louis Music ("I Need You So"), some are on Ivory Music ("My Wish Came True"), Some are on Elvis Presley Music ("Ain't That Lovin' You, Baby"), some are on Gladys Music ("It's Still Here") and "I Will Be True" is on Hill & Range, the publishing company most associated with Elvis.

Bearing in mind Hill & Range specialised in C&W songwriters, it does seem very unlikley that Hunter would have originally published his R&B ballad through them: surely the track would have been on St Louis Music, his original publisher.

Hunter did have a legal wrangle with St Louis Music over payments to BMI in 1957 so maybe that muddied the situation.

My feeling is that Hunter (or his legal people) decided to clarify the legal and publishing situation of "I Will Be True" when Elvis came a-knocking in 1971: this was a potential goldmine and they didn't want any problems. Hence the song was attributed to "Ivory Joe Hunter" and Hill & Range were given the publishing rights. Is this perhaps why Joe's original recording has never (as far as I can tell) been re-released since? Was that the deal?

So who is "Kyle"?

I think it's an Ivory Joe alias.

Why "Kyle"?

Hunter was born in 1914 in the Texas town of Kirbryville.
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Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:19 pm

GREAT research, with a capital George Smith. I concur with your fine analysis and conclusion.

And I'll wager Elvis bought a copy of that 1957 Hunter LP, too.

Thank you for allowing this tangent in your terrific topic.

Just for fun, here's the Billboard review:


Image

Billboard - February 2, 1957


And a better scan of the album art:


Image

Ivory Joe Hunter, I Get That Lonesome Feeling (MGM E3488, February 1957)
Front cover.


Image

Ivory Joe Hunter, I Get That Lonesome Feeling (MGM E3488, February 1957)
Back cover.


It's a shame this release is unavailable -- I'd love to hear it. Obviously, it affected Elvis quite a bit.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:46 pm

Thanks for the follow-up, Doc.

Fabulous scans of the LP: why do old LP backs look SO good - beautifully laid out, lots of white space - stunning.

Tantaslingly, the sleeve notes claim that "most" of the songs are IJH compositions.

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:57 pm

...
Last edited by neckywoudje on Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:59 pm

George Smith wrote:Thanks for the follow-up, Doc.

Fabulous scans of the LP: why do old LP backs look SO good - beautifully laid out, lots of white space - stunning.

Tantalizingly, the sleeve notes claim that "most" of the songs are IJH compositions.

Indeed, 1950s album designs are just beautiful.

The 1957 Ivory Joe Hunter album does have at least two covers:

"Blue Moon"
Lorenz Hart - Richard Rodgers
© Robbins Catalog, ASCAP


"I'm Sorry For You, My Friend"
Hank Williams
© Acuff-Rose Music, BMI

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:22 pm

neckywoudje wrote:totally agree with the tracklist...allthough in 'reality' it would have been a 10 track set i guess, without I Shall Be Released and It's Only Love...would have been a killer set!


Maybe, but the previous two albums ("TTWII" and "Country") were both 12 track collections.

The LP would have had a playing time of just over 40 minutes, generous but not excessive and generally in keeping with its predecessors.

In truth, the LP is a couple of tracks short of perfection and I do believe that Elvis had sadly given up on his folk concept midway through the sessions.

Midnightx has suggested that the project ultimately lacks cohesion and whilst I can understand his position I think the LP hangs together better than it perhaps has a right to.

Try it - put it together on iTunes and listen to it.

Better still, first play "Elvis Country" and then play "Elvis Exodus" to get some idea of the artistic change.

Here's a man on top of the world singing from the bottom of the pile.

Re: 1971

Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:14 pm

Great selection George!

If I had to put together an album from 1971 it would be something like this:

Elvis Moves On

Side A:

1. It's Only Love
2. The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
3. I Will Be True
4. Until It's Time For You To Go
5. Help Me Make It Through The Night
6. We Can Make The Morning

Side B:

1. I'm Leavin'
2. The Sound Of Your Cry
3. (That's What You Get) For Lovin' Me
4. It's Still Here
5. I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen
6. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
5.

Re: 1971

Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:09 am

Some cool info being unearthed here guys. A fantastic thread overall.

And I thought I'd just mention it again, but George Smith, that album is killer! Truly is haunting. Love your analysis of each song too. Great stuff. This album has to go down with For The Asking/Elvis Sings Memphis, Tennessee, Tomorrow Is a Long Time and Standing Room Only as the great Elvis albums that never were. I do agree with drjohncarpenter's comments that the title Exodus doesn't really suit Elvis' style. Long Lonesome Road... [taken from the lyrics to "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right"] could perhaps be more suitable, especially to the overall theme and feel of the album.

Creating personal compilations of a similar nature is usually rewarding as serving as a fresh way to listen and interpret Elvis' music. It got me thinking about all of Elvis LP releases in this period. There was far too much product out, with the good buried amongst the crap. There was enough material from '71 Nashville for 2 very decent LPs - instead we got it spread over 4. This possible Secular release George has mooted could have been followed with a great festive LP - like a merger of the Gospel and Xmas albums of 1971. In both cases half the album is very good and the other half not so. So to cherry pick the best from each with 1 side being a contemporary take on Christmas with focus on pop songs rather than any religious Xmas tunes and the 2nd side focusing purely on spirituals [Following a similar principle from Something for Everybody and How Great Thou Art; of splitting up each Side in respective categories] :

The sounds of Christmas

SIDE 1 - Christmas
Holly Leaves and Christmas Trees
If I Get Home On Christmas Day
Winter Wonderland
I'll Be Home On Christmas Day
Merry Christmas Baby [To be released as the Single A-Side]
It Won't Seem Like Christmas (Without You)

SIDE 2 - Religious
He Touched Me
I, John
Lead Me, Guide Me
Seeing Is Believing
Bosom of Abraham
Reach Out to Jesus
Amazing Grace [To be released as the Single B-Side]

Great Holiday album right there!

Re: 1971

Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:37 am

I got to get these FTDs to make this mix. Good album.

Re: 1971

Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:58 am

Just made a CD-R of this and it is mighty fine :D
[The edit of “It’s Still Here” from “Walk A Mile In My Shoes” is a clever splice of takes 5 & 7]
This is really the album I was hoping for when *I'm Leavin'" came out, instead of "Love Letters" & "Elvis Now"...
What a difference that might have made!

Re: 1971

Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:18 am

Page 1 on this topic not wanting to load. Anyone get to it?

Re: 1971

Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:55 am

promiseland wrote:Page 1 on this topic not wanting to load. Anyone get to it?


mine did.......

Re: 1971

Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:00 am

George, thanks a lot for this wonderful thread. I read it now, after more than 3 years and a half you wrote it. Marvelous! As a personal opinion I think the best song of 1971 was Merry Christmas Baby. Why RCA did not promote it enough to be a hit it's very strange. Elvis could sang the song on TV to promote the Christmas LP, can you imagine how great this could be?

Re: 1971

Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:51 pm

Just tried out this album. Were it only the reality! It would have been quite the follow-up to Elvis Country. Great job on the selections and sequencing, George. Your initial post also acts as excellent "liner notes" of a sort. Nice to read while listening to the music. Thank you for sharing your efforts.

Troy

Re: 1971

Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:39 pm

I was wandering through the threads and came across this and was absolutely blown away, love the '70's Elvis and your album would have been a fitting release at the time for Elvis. Like a previous poster I am buring the album for the drive to work tomorrow, very enjoyable, thank you for your efforts.
I started listening to the music without reading your wonderful comments about each track, as one poster said, why were you not working for RCA in '71.

Re: 1971

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:17 am

Over the past few weeks, several members have been kind enough to PM me regarding this LP, so I thought it would be fun to assemble a YouTube compilation to make it easier to listen the project.

I stress that I am not a video-maker and the clips are assembled to set the mood, so to speak.

As always, it's about the music.

Last edited by George Smith on Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: 1971

Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:25 pm

George, for some reason all you Elvis Youtubes come up as "private" and unplayable for me. All the other Youtubes on this thread I can play.

Re: 1971

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:05 pm

skatterbrane wrote:George, for some reason all you Elvis Youtubes come up as "private" and unplayable for me. All the other Youtubes on this thread I can play.


Thank you -- I have now changed the settings to PUBLIC -- please let me know if it still doesn't work for you.

Re: 1971

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:18 am

George Smith wrote:Over the past few weeks, several members have been kind enough to PM me regarding this LP, so I thought it would be fun to assemble a YouTube compilation to make it easier to listen the project.

I stress that I am not a video-maker and the clips are assembled to set the mood, so to speak.

As always, it's about the music.



You are on a roll, George Smith!

Very nice segue from Dylan to Jarrett/Charles, by the way.

Re: 1971

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:27 am

Thank you, John -- I'm slightly drowning in all things Elvis at the moment but thoroughly enjoying every second.

Thanks again for your huge contribution to the Crudup thread yesterday -- it was connected to "the other project" and it was invaluable to have someone keep me on the straight and narrow.

Re: 1971

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:06 am

George Smith wrote:Thank you, John -- I'm slightly drowning in all things Elvis at the moment but thoroughly enjoying every second.

Thanks again for your huge contribution to the Crudup thread yesterday -- it was connected to "the other project" and it was invaluable to have someone keep me on the straight and narrow.


My pleasure. One small request: can you add the track listing (and timing as to when the songs begin and end) to your YouTube video? Many probably have no idea Elvis recorded these songs, or even know them by name.

P.S. What "other project"? ;-)

Re: 1971

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:56 am

This is really wonderful, thank you

JosephC

Re: 1971

Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:01 am

George Smith wrote:Over the past few weeks, several members have been kind enough to PM me regarding this LP, so I thought it would be fun to assemble a YouTube compilation to make it easier to listen the project.

I stress that I am not a video-maker and the clips are assembled to set the mood, so to speak.

As always, it's about the music.



...I must admit that I`m just a little surprised that Ernst did not put something out like this back in the late 90`s...missed opportunity at that time and that`s a big compliment to you George, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to that, thanks!! :D