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Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:13 am

elvisjock wrote:Elvis was telling people he'd kill the guys, or have them killed. Red had seen him irrational like this before.

Thank you. At least one other person gets it.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:58 am

Elvis was all talk.
He was putting up a smoke screen.
He often said things he didn't mean and later felt guilty about it.

Red said on the tape he recorded Elvis to help corroborate the book.

Lines were crossed that hadn't been crossed before, that is why Red felt that
even though he had been fired many times and hired back, this was the last time he would be fired.

And Gene Smith IIRC said that Elvis was slowly cleaning house and trying to start fresh.

He had to deal with the book, the Presley center court fiasco, Ginger, his career, and his health.

A little too little and little too late.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:08 am

Joe Car wrote:
The Welz wrote:By 1976 Elvis was nothing but a junkie. A rich one with a whole bunch of people taking care of each and everything, but still nothing but a junkie. Just listen closely and you know what I mean. It's just sad, that such a great man fell so deep.


Really a classless post if you ask me! The fact that Red West is tape recording his conversation with Elvis is worse if you ask me, yet you don't mention that!


I agree Joe, indeed claseless. Forum i Think needs more members such as yourself mate!

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:47 am

ekenee wrote:Elvis was all talk.
He was putting up a smoke screen.
He often said things he didn't mean and later felt guilty about it.

Red said on the tape he recorded Elvis to help corroborate the book. Lines were crossed that hadn't been crossed before, that is why Red felt that
even though he had been fired many times and hired back, this was the last time he would be fired.

And Gene Smith IIRC said that Elvis was slowly cleaning house and trying to start fresh.

He had to deal with the book, the Presley center court fiasco, Ginger, his career, and his health. A little too little and little too late.


I agree with all of this. Another thing most forget about-- he was involved with Tennessee Karate Institute. I saw someone asked Marty if he knew anything about this, as it was said that Elvis owned a part of this too. And had Red West working there .Wonder how that worked out? { pertaining to Red being fired, etc.}

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:15 am

Just wondering if anybody has heard or read where Elvis instructed Vernon to give the West cousins and Dave Hebler $5,000 each when they were fired, but I guess Vernon pocketed the money instead? Also, if I call somebodies post classless, or make comments to that effect, I want people to understand that it's not a personal attack, just what I think of the particular post.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:08 pm

Unless we can bring back Vernon and Elvis from the dead and question them, it's impossible to 100% figure out the whole story behind the firing and the motives behind it all. The lawsuits brought on by physical violence on the part of the Wests were a part of it. Cutting back on expenses another. Personal resentment and mistrust another.

I don't like the fact that Elvis' father, whom Elvis loved dearly, has been given a very rough deal by certain MM members after his death. It's in Nash' book and it's in the "All The King's Men" multi-hour documentary, especially coming from Lamar who says some nasty things about Vernon's love-making that he had no business saying about anybody deceased or alive. Elvis would have clocked him right then and there mid-sentence if he was present. But it's so easy to say these things without having to face up to retribution, isn't it ? Nobody is putting down Lamar anymore or pouring water over him anymore, and it shows in his big mouth. I don't question that Vernon was a penny-pincher, but I understand where he was coming from, his background and concerns, and I think he deserves more all-round respect. He's always charachterized as a dumb, greedy and weak man and I don't like that stereotype. He comes across as a likeable and well-meaning man in every interview and footage I have from him. He was nice to the fans, as each source testifies.

So Elvis may have been abusing his power, sure, but who wasn't and who isn't ? THe MM today are using their status as "trusted circle" to impose their opinions on fans young and old who never knew Vernon or Elvis personally. That's power for ya. The dead can't defend themselves anymore, now can they ? If they were so tough and honest, how come nobody of them ever told Colonel where he could put it ? Looking out for their own interests, then and now ? You betcha. I'm actually a fan of Red's wongwriting and acting, so don't assume I'm in the hate-camp.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:21 pm

James27 wrote:The dead can't defend themselves anymore, now can they ?

I don't think people should be home free for critisicm even if they are dead. Your actions, good or bad, shouldn't be forgotten after you have left this world. If you don't want people to talk bad about you then behave well and be a good guy.

James27 wrote:If they were so tough and honest, how come nobody of them ever told Colonel where he could put it ?

Didn't Lamar tell Parker that wanted to knock his teeth out in Portland, when Parker told Lamar that Elvis had died :wink:

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:17 pm

Ever notice how often in the conversation Elvis uses song lyrics, movie lines and book quotes to illustrate his thoughts and opinions? He mentions several songs, including: Suspicious Minds, Understanding Solves All Problems, Desiderata, Aubrey and Men With Broken Hearts. He refers to Cool Hand Luke several times. He quotes the Bible and his numerology texts.

The closest Elvis comes to taking responsibility for his actions is when he says he reached a "boiling point," was feeling isolated and needed to get away from everybody to "analyze and weigh." He says, "You know that number eight? The thing that says they are intensely lonely at heart. For this reason they feel they're lonely but in reality they have warm hearts toward the oppressed. But they hide their feelings in life and do as they please. Well, I'm a number eight and so are you." He seems to be saying that the situation with Red might have been temporary, had there not been a "failure to communicate." He shrugs off the dismissal of Sonny, by saying, "he was never around." Elvis certainly had a hair across his ass where Hebler was concerned, blaming him for contributing to the "friction" and "separatisims" in the group, and going so far as calling him a "bully" towards the younger guys.

Each time Red brings up Elvis' health, you can almost hear the fire doors slamming shut. Everything is just fine. The problems he had previously cleared up on their own. He is perfectly healthy and has never been in better shape. After all, he just passed an insurance physical three weeks ago. This conversation is required listening for anyone that studies Elvis' life and career. This is where he was, mentally, in the last year of his life.

Elvis will not swallow his pride and push Red towards reconsidering the book. In fact, he even avoids calling it a book, preferring to use the terms "articles" and "publications." The closest he comes is by taking a measure of responsibility for the "separatisms," and saying he's willing to help Red, with "anything I can do at all."

It's also worthy of note that Red seems sincere in a desire to ease Elvis' anxiety about the book. He was broke, he was made an offer, and he accepted on the premise that he would be able to write "the good stuff..from day one..the good old days." While the finished product would contain Red's more fond memories, they would be washed over by the wave of sensationalism that was employed in marketing the book's more salacious content.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:34 pm

Yes, I too use songs lyrics occasionally . Many times their words can speak for me on how I want to express something in better words .

As far as Red, I could accept him more easily than the rest. He didn't go on and on and play it for all he could get out of it. I just didn't like him recording that phone conversation ; as a "friend."

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:39 pm

shawn wrote:Yes, I too use songs lyrics occasionally . Many times their words can speak for me on how I want to express something in better words .

As far as Red, I could accept him more easily than the rest. He didn't go on and on and play it for all he could get out of it. I just didn't like him recording that phone conversation ; as a "friend."


It was a sleazy thing for Red to do, or anybody for that matter! It was probably suggested to him by the lowest form of a human being, that being Steve Dunleavy.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:49 pm

IMO, things got way to complicated, Everyone are to blame but:
IMO Elvis did OD because of the presseaure to confront and his pride was at stake

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:51 pm

Article from Jan.2010 :
http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2010 ... turn-king/

Different from what some think or say :
Sonny West: “We got post-tour bonuses, between $2,500 and $10,000, depending on how long you’d been with him. We were making $450 a week and all of our expenses were paid, but we had bills and expenses at home. Elvis paid me a bonus one year and also took care of the down payment on the house, too. I thanked Vernon for this, too, and he just said, ‘It was Elvis’ idea.’”

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:11 pm

August 2010 : There's plenty of blame to go around ,IMO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... years.html

"He refused to go into a rehab clinic. At one point, I talked to his doctor about the possibility of sedating him and admitting him against his will but even as I was saying it, I knew we couldn't go through with it. It would have been like attacking him.

I see now that we should all have been more worried about his health and less about whether we'd continue to be welcomed through the Graceland gates.

I've come to believe that if his mother had lived a full life, Elvis would still be with us today. But the people who had the most leverage with him were his father Vernon and his long-time manager Colonel Tom Parker.

If they had pushed for Elvis to go into rehab, he may have gone. But both had too much at stake. It seems heartless now but Vernon, who ran his son's financial affairs, was concerned about his own job security, and the Colonel didn't want anything to interfere with Elvis making money on the road. So with Elvis at his most vulnerable, no one stepped in to help. "

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:46 pm

Joe Car wrote:Just wondering if anybody has heard or read where Elvis instructed Vernon to give the West cousins and Dave Hebler $5,000 each when they were fired, but I guess Vernon pocketed the money instead? Also, if I call somebodies post classless, or make comments to that effect, I want people to understand that it's not a personal attack, just what I think of the particular post.

On Vernon firing the Wests and their pay :
http://books.google.com/books?id=4leHQD ... &q&f=false

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:45 am

Good analysis, elvisjock.

Yes Xaykev, you're right that nobody should be immune to critisicm after their death. I agree, if it's done without bias and hidden agendas. Many of these guys have a lot of hidden agendas and (business as well as personal) interests, I think. Some more than others, obviously.

Even when you behave well and are a good guy in life according to your own moral standards, there will still be people who say that you were "so gullible", to put it mildly. Some people rather prefer a controversial badass, a loudmouth, a rebel, a bastard, a dictatorial Ceasar to a nice guy. You know what they say about good guys, don't you.. they finish last ... :wink:

Xaykev wrote:
James27 wrote:The dead can't defend themselves anymore, now can they ?

I don't think people should be home free for critisicm even if they are dead. Your actions, good or bad, shouldn't be forgotten after you have left this world. If you don't want people to talk bad about you then behave well and be a good guy.

James27 wrote:If they were so tough and honest, how come nobody of them ever told Colonel where he could put it ?

Didn't Lamar tell Parker that wanted to knock his teeth out in Portland, when Parker told Lamar that Elvis had died :wink:

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:36 pm

midnightx wrote:
shawn wrote:
chris j wrote:"Nothing but a junkie" - how can such a comment ever be justified? In my opinion this board does Elvis a great injustice on many many occasions, and probably considerable damage. I'd like to see some other good-hearted and informed people come to his aid at this point, unless we want outsiders and visitors to think that the above comment is valid and an appropriate summary.

Agreed. I've always tried to figure out just why some come to complain about him and put him him down on these sites. If I don't like something or someone, I just don't have anything to do with either.I'm sure others will disagree; but there is a difference in "drugs" and taking prescribed medications. Many patients today still get addicted to prescribed medicines and have to work their way off of them. Is that some "weakness" of theirs or a pre-disposition to the medicines given? I think science and medicine is still trying to figure that out.
fantastic post midnightx
There is no difference in abusing "street" drugs and "prescription" drugs. There is no difference in how one goes to great lengths to do so and how one unravels their life to do so (for example, the stories of manipulation and Elvis being consumed with keeping his flow of drugs intact mirror Deep Purple's Glenn Hughes doing everything in his power to keep his supply of Cocaine intact). The people trying to differentiate the two are usually apologists. That is nothing new on this message board. It is baffling how a faction of members here cannot handle a discussion on Elvis' drug abuse. If you can't handle it, don't join the thread. Whether you like it or not, it is an important part of the story. Not only did Elvis' drug abuse prematurely end his life, but it greatly affected his craft. It is clearly an important topic of discussion if one wants a greater understanding of Elvis Presley.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:54 pm

I admire all your posts in this thread, midnightx.

Re: "Elvis and red west telephone conversation,october 1976.

Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:57 pm

I admire all your posts in this thread, midnightx.