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Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:29 am

Red West said that he wrote a song that Petula Clark recorded.

I couldn't find anymore information as to what song it was.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:30 pm

Albert Goldman wrote:I still prefer Don Robertson over Red West and Anything that's Part of You over That's Someone You Never Forget ...

Good for you!

You have fun, and the rest of us will continue to enjoy Red's stunning contribution.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:05 pm

Albert Goldman wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Albert Goldman wrote:You are right, it may be my loss. But I'm happy as long as I don't realize it.

I'll bet you're pretty bummed right now :-)


Well, you bet your money on the wrong horse, Doc. You do not convince me with couple of adjectives that could describe many of Elvis' performances from the early sixties. I still prefer Don Robertson over Red West and Anything that's Part of You over That's Someone You Never Forget,

Mitch, YOU got a point there!


I danced when I heard Albert Goldman died. I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I felt the need to share.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:01 pm

Bobc wrote:I know that has nothing to do with this thread ...

This is your third post here, and you've made not a single comment on the topic, even after I asked.

Have you nothing to say about Red and his songs?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:14 pm

I wasn't aware that I answered to you. I know you have a lot of knowledge and I respect that, but you take yourself a little too seriously.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:28 am

0 for 4.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:13 am

Red west and his wife are not the secret members of this site, that had "a personal history with Elvis" that you were alluding to on another thread, are they, John ?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:23 am

Post on topic, please, Dann.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:34 am

Nice, thought provoking post, Doc.

Like many others, I've always admired Red's ability to call it as he saw it, even to
his own detriment.
The paradox has always been Red's tough guy persona combined with a very tender,
thoughtful, songwriter.
I'm intrigued by "That's Someone You'll Never Forget".
I enjoy the song primarily for its musical arrangement, not to mention the
superb dispay of Elvis' magnificent vibrato.

Does anyone know if Red was part of the musical arrangement on the song?
To me, the arrangement is as good as any of Elvis' 1961 ballads.

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Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:36 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Post on topic, please, Dann.



:D

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:42 am

brian wrote:Red West said that he wrote a song that Petula Clark recorded.

I couldn't find anymore information as to what song it was.



Have you cross checked Red's 136 songs listed by BMI against A Petula Clark discography ?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:46 am

What makes "Little Milton" feel he did a better job than Elvis ?

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Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:51 am

TCB TED wrote:Nice, thought provoking post, Doc.

Like many others, I've always admired Red's ability to call it as he saw it, even to his own detriment.

The paradox has always been Red's tough guy persona combined with a very tender, thoughtful, songwriter.

I'm intrigued by "That's Someone You'll Never Forget".

I enjoy the song primarily for its musical arrangement, not to mention the superb display of Elvis' magnificent vibrato.

Does anyone know if Red was part of the musical arrangement on the song?
To me, the arrangement is as good as any of Elvis' 1961 ballads.

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Thanks, Ted!

My suspicion is that Red came in with nearly the entire song, including arrangement, as inspired by Elvis. But it is intriguing to imagine West and Presley quietly working together prior to the Nashville session, finding their way to the sound we hear on that recording. Or perhaps the arrangement was nailed before they began rolling tape.

Either way, it is a deeply felt, highly unusual composition in the Presley canon. Its beauty and power derive from its understated feel. It is something completely new from -- at that time -- the undisputed #1 pop artist in the world.

That ain't too shabby.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:25 am

Dan_T wrote:What makes "Little Milton" feel he did a better job than Elvis ?



Nice patronising use of quotes there. The level of musical knowledge some people have here never ceases to amaze me.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:33 am

Are you serious ?

Don't bother replying.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:02 am

Frankie Teardrop wrote:
Dan_T wrote:What makes "Little Milton" feel he did a better job than Elvis ?



Nice patronising use of quotes there. The level of musical knowledge some people have here never ceases to amaze me.

Dan_T wrote:Are you serious ?

:D :D :D

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:41 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Albert Goldman wrote:I still prefer Don Robertson over Red West and Anything that's Part of You over That's Someone You Never Forget ...

Good for you!

You have fun, and the rest of us will continue to enjoy Red's stunning contribution.


Oh now I see, your opinion is not the truth nor the right one... you just took the liberty to speak on behalf of the people in general - in a poetic sense?

Well, it is a shame that Elvis didn't pick that widely popular tune on a single... yet another loss in the never ending if-topics.

But let's not spoil your fun or my fun, I'll ask you a serious question: since you rate this song so high, do you also rate Red West as one of the most important contributors of Elvis canon in the pre-comeback sixties?
Last edited by Albert Goldman on Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:14 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
luckyjackson1 wrote:... Doc, great topic as usual and a joy to read. Honestly.

Thank you.


Albert Goldman wrote:
brian wrote:
I also liked ''That's someone you'll never forget'' as an album track.


Many fans seem to enjoy this number. Again I consider this an average, even forgettable track - although Elvis takes the song quite seriously.

Your opinion is a corner-case view.

Many "seem to enjoy" the song because it is an incredible track, probably Red's finest Presley effort.

Elvis approaches it with delicacy and grace, the arrangement is both majestic and understated, and the lyrics are superb. Here, in the middle of 1961, we have an Elvis miles away from the soundtrack fodder of "Blue Hawaii" or "G.I. Blues," and rock 'n' roll is only apparent in the deep passion of the performance. Bob Moore's acoustic bass work, in particular, is outstanding.

"That's Someone You Never Forget" was the sound of Elvis taking his music to a new place, to a deeply personal level, and it's a shame he didn't explore it much further. From this period, only the Don Robertson-penned numbers come close.


"GI Blues" and "Blue Hawaii" had their moments - you can't write it off as miles away from "That's Someone You Never Forget", there are some quite outstanding moments on both albums, in particular "Blue Hawaii". They were sure better than the soundtrack albums that came after anyhow.

But yes, I share your sentiments to a degree. The only gripe I have is the lyrics for me, I don't know, just feel a tad underdeveloped. It's not perfect so to speak - but still great for those qualities you mentioned. The words you write so eloquently about the track can be applied to similar songs from that period like "There's Always Me", "Anything That's Part of You" and to a slightly lesser extent "I Met Her Today". He only just delved into this new vision he had for himself, the one he'd always dreamed of when he first set out. But due to the way he was managed, the way his career ended up going in the 60's, we never got to see it fully develop. The incredible beauty that lies on those tracks is such an under-rated element of his career - they've sort of been lost in that period of "Elvis Is Back!" and the movie era-Elvis. It's a shame it never developed and he sort of ceased to make serious music after this period and the songs were gettin continually worse.

Also am I the only one who feels "That's Someone..." is like a 1961 pop pre-cursor to "I'm Leavin'"? I don't know, it's just the haunting qualities of the understated acoustic work and that lingering voice of his. Maybe it's just me?

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:34 pm

And for the record, I still feel "Separate Ways" is overrall the best song we have penned by Red - his lyrics are superb, they cut thru you like a knife. And if drjohncarpenter wouldn't mind me borrowing and slightly adapting his words on "That's Someone You Never Forget" here, but I really think this fits.

"Elvis approaches it with delicacy and grace, the arrangement is both majestic and understated, and the lyrics are superb. Here, in the middle of 1972 and painful divorce from the mother of his beloved child, we have an Elvis miles away from the fodder of "Elvis Now" or "Love Letters From Elvis" and rock 'n' roll is only apparent in the deep passion of the performance. The acoustic work, in particular, is outstanding.

"Separate Ways" was the sound of Elvis taking his music to a new place, to a deeply personal level."


It's such a haunting track; it is the sound of Elvis' music going to the deeply personal level that only "That's Someone You Never Forget" has gone before. They are the only 2 songs to have ever been specifically written surrounding emotional events in Elvis' life. There may've been other songs like "Hurt" or "You Gave Me a Mountain" where we can probably tell what emotions Elvis is singing about personally. But there's unequivocally no doubt in what Elvis is singing about here - it's almost not music anymore - it's real life. It's the sound of a divorce, and the painful separation of a Mother and Father - much like the outstanding Bob Dylan album of a few years later "Blood on the Tracks". Elvis vocal performance is one of his best of the decade, because unlike most other efforts on aformentioned 70's tracks, Elvis goes for the tend, understated approach he'd so rarely adopt by now. And his now maturer, world-weary voice expresses sorrow in a far better way than ever in "Separate Ways", and the ending with Elvis just harmonising thru the outro is just magic. It's almost like the sound of the sorrow drifting on.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:01 pm

Dan_T wrote:Are you serious ?

Don't bother replying.


Don't bother, full stop. Ever.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:04 pm

Albert Goldman wrote:Well, it is a shame that Elvis didn't pick that widely popular tune on a single... yet another loss in the never ending if-topics.

As noted on page 1, "That's Someone You Never Forget" was a single release in 1967, but it's not really "singles" material.

Albert Goldman wrote:But let's not spoil your fun or my fun, I'll ask you a serious question: since you rate this song so high, do you also rate Red West as one of the most important contributors of Elvis canon in the pre-comeback sixties?

As a songwriter -- no. For one thing, he didn't contribute that many tunes.

The title probably goes to Pomus and Shuman.

A Mess Of Blues (1960)
Doin' The Best I Can (1960)
Surrender (1960)
Kiss Me Quick (1961)
His Latest Flame (1961)
Little Sister (1961)
Gonna Get Back Home Somehow (1962)
Night Rider (1962)
I Feel That I've Known You Forever (1962)
Suspicion (1962)
She's Not You (1962)
Long Lonely Highway (1963)
Viva Las Vegas (1963)
I Need Somebody To Lean On (1963)

However, as a collaborator, Red was vital. He sometimes helped review Presley song demos, and once got the ire of management when he returned an entire stack with "sh.it" written on every one of them. West was soon relieved of that duty.

All of those fabulous and revelatory 1966 Bel Air demos are courtesy of Red and his tape machine. And, of course, besides saving a June 1966 Nashville session by cutting "scratch" vocals for an absent star, he also helped Elvis prepare for his tremendous "How Great Thou Art" sessions the previous month.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:26 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Albert Goldman wrote:Well, it is a shame that Elvis didn't pick that widely popular tune on a single... yet another loss in the never ending if-topics.

As noted on page 1, "That's Someone You Never Forget" was a single release in 1967, but it's not really "singles" material.

.


Well, maybe you knew what I meant - or maybe you didn't. Anyway, I'm aware of this release, but the fact that the song was chosen as a B-side in 1967 tells us something... Unfortunately, it tells us very something depressing about the A-side too!

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:30 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:As a songwriter -- no. For one thing, he didn't contribute that many tunes.

The title probably goes to Pomus and Shuman.

A Mess Of Blues (1960)
Doin' The Best I Can (1960)
Surrender (1960)
Kiss Me Quick (1961)
His Latest Flame (1961)
Little Sister (1961)
Gonna Get Back Home Somehow (1962)
Night Rider (1962)
I Feel That I've Known You Forever (1962)
Suspicion (1962)
She's Not You (1962)
Long Lonely Highway (1963)
Viva Las Vegas (1963)
I Need Somebody To Lean On (1963)



Regarding this title, I think that we are in the same boat. People have different tastes, but this team is hard to top.

Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:08 pm

brian wrote:Red West said that he wrote a song that Petula Clark recorded.

I couldn't find anymore information as to what song it was.


Red co-wrote a song with Mark James titled "When The World Was Round" that Petula Clark recorded for her 1970 Warner Bros. album "Memphis." I don't know if Red wrote any other songs that were recorded by Petula Clark.

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Here's an alternate version:

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Re: Red West --> Songs for Elvis, 1962-1975 !

Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:26 am

Daryl wrote:
brian wrote:Red West said that he wrote a song that Petula Clark recorded.

I couldn't find anymore information as to what song it was.


Red co-wrote a song with Mark James titled "When The World Was Round" that Petula Clark recorded for her 1970 Warner Bros. album "Memphis." I don't know if Red wrote any other songs that were recorded by Petula Clark.

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Here's an alternate version:

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Nice find. Memphis was cut at American Sound in 1969 and produced by Chips Moman, so it's not surprising to see James and West land a tune on the 1970 LP.


700606_Memphis_Petula Clark.JPG

Petula Clark Memphis (Warner Bros. Records ‎WS 1862, June 6, 1970)
http://www.allmusic.com/album/memphis-mw0000092794
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