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TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:08 am

Does anyone know why RCA recorded extensively at the August 1970 Vegas season. We obviously know that part of the reason was the filming of the documentary, but why did that require RCA to record eight shows? Can we assume that a live album was planned and then for some reason dropped (as was the case for the Elvis on Tour recordings)? Otherwise, RCA went to a lot of trouble to record eight shows and only release four songs from them? Sure, it's been great that RCA has been able to mine them over the years for other releases, but that clearly wasn't why they were recorded.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:37 am

Yes why record all those shows and not film all of them ?

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:44 am

GERRY wrote:Yes why record all those shows and not film all of them ?


That's not my point. There was no need to film them all for a ninety minute movie, and so they didn't.

But there was certainly no need to record audio of six shows to only release four songs, and yet they did. The question is why? In contrast, only a few songs from the Feb 1972 recordings were intended for release, and so they didn't record full shows.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:04 am

From their point of view, once they set up to record live performances, why not record all the shows they were filming? They couldn't know when the best show or best performance would come and they wanted to make sure they recorded anything that might get into the movie. I'm glad they did.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:08 am

stevelecher wrote:From their point of view, once they set up to record live performances, why not record all the shows they were filming? They couldn't know when the best show or best performance would come and they wanted to make sure they recorded anything that might get into the movie. I'm glad they did.


But it's not to do with the filming. The audio we have from these shows is from RCA, not MGM.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:11 am

And don't forget... RCA recorded a lot of the rehearsals as well.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:20 am

elvis-fan wrote:And don't forget... RCA recorded a lot of the rehearsals as well.


This is true, but not professionally in most cases.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:41 am

I would love to know if July 14 1970 (Tuesday) has good audio or was it mic issues all the way ?
I would love to hear mystery train and a few others

on another note the red shirt rehearsals why didn't they get a good soundboard mix from the hotel ? I believe the sound in the original TTWII on mary in the morning was and sounds like it's taken from the board or even a matrix mix of both the audience mic set up and the clean soundboard ????

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:54 am

So the audio in the movie is not provided by RCA but MGM, there's a whole load of alternative releases in a vault somewhere.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:57 am

poormadpeter2 wrote:Does anyone know why RCA recorded extensively at the August 1970 Vegas season. We obviously know that part of the reason was the filming of the documentary, but why did that require RCA to record eight shows? Can we assume that a live album was planned and then for some reason dropped (as was the case for the Elvis on Tour recordings)? Otherwise, RCA went to a lot of trouble to record eight shows and only release four songs from them? Sure, it's been great that RCA has been able to mine them over the years for other releases, but that clearly wasn't why they were recorded.



Indeed a double live album was planned and cancelled in favor of the june 1970 recordings with 3 albums.


colonel snow

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:45 pm

Equally, there were a lot of new songs added to the repertoire, and not all were done at every show. I guess they wanted to get at least 2 versions of each of each if possible.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:28 pm

colonel snow wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:Does anyone know why RCA recorded extensively at the August 1970 Vegas season. We obviously know that part of the reason was the filming of the documentary, but why did that require RCA to record eight shows? Can we assume that a live album was planned and then for some reason dropped (as was the case for the Elvis on Tour recordings)? Otherwise, RCA went to a lot of trouble to record eight shows and only release four songs from them? Sure, it's been great that RCA has been able to mine them over the years for other releases, but that clearly wasn't why they were recorded.



Indeed a double live album was planned and cancelled in favor of the june 1970 recordings with 3 albums.


colonel snow



So was the double album cancelled after the august recordings were made? It also seems odd that they weren't mined further down the road for Legendary Performer or WTMY releases.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:48 pm

Do we know that RCA taped these six shows or did MGM turn over tapes as they did with all the other movies?

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:54 pm

stevelecher wrote:Do we know that RCA taped these six shows or did MGM turn over tapes as they did with all the other movies?



In the sessionlogs it's not mentioned that RCA got the tapes from MGM; RCA assigned a matrixnumber to selections prepared for release.


colonel snow

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:16 pm

I recall reading on this board many years ago, that there were two sets of recording units running: one for RCA and one for MGM and they were not in sync. That's the reason, why the beginning of Polk Salad Annie in the August 12 MS is different in the film and the RCA release. RCA's recording apparantly was cut at the beginning of Polk Salad Annie and had to be patched with the beginning from another show (on the TTWII 3 CD box).

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:24 pm

MartyMcFly wrote:I recall reading on this board many years ago, that there were two sets of recording units running: one for RCA and one for MGM and they were not in sync. That's the reason, why the beginning of Polk Salad Annie in the August 12 MS is different in the film and the RCA release. RCA's recording apparantly was cut at the beginning of Polk Salad Annie and had to be patched with the beginning from another show (on the TTWII 3 CD box).


Yes, I don't see any reason why they would have run in synch. If RCA were looking to release this material, then they wouldn't have relied on MGM's tapes. What's more, RCA recorded full shows and MGM did not.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:40 pm

MartyMcFly wrote:I recall reading on this board many years ago, that there were two sets of recording units running: one for RCA and one for MGM and they were not in sync. That's the reason, why the beginning of Polk Salad Annie in the August 12 MS is different in the film and the RCA release. RCA's recording apparantly was cut at the beginning of Polk Salad Annie and had to be patched with the beginning from another show (on the TTWII 3 CD box).


And oddly, the beginning from Polk Salad is the proper one on the 8 CD / 2 DVD boxset from 2014.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:49 pm

Johnny2523 wrote:
MartyMcFly wrote:I recall reading on this board many years ago, that there were two sets of recording units running: one for RCA and one for MGM and they were not in sync. That's the reason, why the beginning of Polk Salad Annie in the August 12 MS is different in the film and the RCA release. RCA's recording apparantly was cut at the beginning of Polk Salad Annie and had to be patched with the beginning from another show (on the TTWII 3 CD box).


And oddly, the beginning from Polk Salad is the proper one on the 8 CD / 2 DVD boxset from 2014.

I guess they purchased or licenced the MGM tapes before that.

Btw. I think they also run two recording machines during Elvis On Tour.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:07 pm

I don't recall reading about the double live album, but if it was proposed, I think it would have to have been compiled from mostly contemporary material as per On Stage, as we had already had live versions of the oldies on both the NBC album and In Person.

For me the TTWII album worked very well as it could be presented as a 'new' album that had enough performances that were associated with the film in some way.

Maybe when the rehearsals commenced and it became apparent that quite a few of the June recordings would feature in the movie, RCA kept the tapes rolling so that they always had the choice between studio master and movie version, whilst also being able to capture anything else that Elvis chose to perform. The guitar songs during the August 12 MS being a good example of this.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:05 am

rockinrebel wrote:I don't recall reading about the double live album, but if it was proposed, I think it would have to have been compiled from mostly contemporary material as per On Stage, as we had already had live versions of the oldies on both the NBC album and In Person.

For me the TTWII album worked very well as it could be presented as a 'new' album that had enough performances that were associated with the film in some way.

Maybe when the rehearsals commenced and it became apparent that quite a few of the June recordings would feature in the movie, RCA kept the tapes rolling so that they always had the choice between studio master and movie version, whilst also being able to capture anything else that Elvis chose to perform. The guitar songs during the August 12 MS being a good example of this.


I'm not sure the NBC album would have been taken into account - it certainly wasn't when the tracklisting for In Person was arrived at. That means that That's all Right, One Night, Love Me, Love Me Tender, Heartbreak Hotel, I Got a Woman, and Don't Be Cruel could all have been considered, as well as Little Sister/Get Back. Together with the live tracks that were used on TTWII, that would have made a dozen recordings. Added to that could have been Something, and live versions of the forthcoming singles (YDHTSYLM and There Goes My Everything). But then it gets harder as it would mean releasing live versions of album tracks before the studio versions were released, and that would have seemed awkward. I guess they could have reached back to February for Long Tall Sally, kentucky rain, and Don't Cry Daddy though.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:34 am

The documentary was being filmed. A soundtrack considered. The RCA people setup the recording for the live shows. Not too much overhead was going to happen by simply changing tape reels for a few days of extra recording cause Felton had to be there anyhow, as Al Pachucki.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:46 am

I think most of songs recorded live for TTWII were available on TTWII album and singles, or course most of them studio versions. I belive that RCA considered a released a new live album could prejudice the sales of TTWII album. But remember a lot of songs were performed live in the early engagements and released in the albuns, Elvis In Person and On Stage, and those songs (Blue Suede Shoes, All Shook up, Love Me Tender, Walk a Mile, and others) could be not considered as a "new" material.

However I think a double album could be considered for release at the end of year 1971, maybe as TTWII vol. 2.

But, the most incridible is not only the RCA recorded six shows in august 1970 and release only 4 tracks, but the fact of the all six shows remained unreleased for more than two decades after Elvis death. That's incridible !!

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:56 am

So the Clean Audio used on The Lost Performances is that RCA Recording or MGM Recording ?

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:38 am

OnTourCam wrote:So the Clean Audio used on The Lost Performances is that RCA Recording or MGM Recording ?


I don't see any reason to believe that MGM and RCA worked together on this. They are two completely separate companies.

What's more Ernst's book says quite clearly "RCA recorded eight complete shows..." They didn't. They only recorded six, but that's beside the point.

Re: TTWII Live Recordings

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:43 am

poormadpeter2 wrote:
OnTourCam wrote:So the Clean Audio used on The Lost Performances is that RCA Recording or MGM Recording ?


I don't see any reason to believe that MGM and RCA worked together on this. They are two completely separate companies.

What's more Ernst's book says quite clearly "RCA recorded eight complete shows..." They didn't. They only recorded six, but that's beside the point.
They had to with audio feeds etc... Or they would be in each others way. RCA also allowed filming in their studio.