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BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:51 pm

This is my first post - been lurking in the shadows for months so finally thought I'd make myself known.

I was recently looking through my old vinyl bootleg collection, looking for something to transfer to digital. While cleaning up the audio on the KC acetates on the "From The Beach To The Bayou" album, I thought "let's see what happens if I put a little space between the channels ... " and lo and behold when I did so I realised I was listening to binaural - not mono as I assume others have always thought as I have never seen any reference to binaural KC acetates at all, anywhere.

This is a revelation, as it means we now have binaural recrodings from all 4 of Elvis pre-army movies. More interestingly, such discoveries - for me at least - feed the hope that more such material exists somewhere - but unlike as in this case, we have been sitting on this material for 40 years but never knew what we had!

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:29 pm

Well, I may as well ask; any chance of some samples? :mrgreen:

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:07 pm

I was afraid someone might ask for samples! Let me see if I can do it before someone else does the same thing ...

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:08 pm

Samples would be good,welcome to the forum

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:27 pm

GLAISTER wrote:not mono as I assume others have always thought as I have never seen any reference to binaural KC acetates at all, anywhere.


Welcome to the FECC!

I think there were references to KC binaural tapes before, but of course they were filled under "destroyed or missing". This is an interesting find, I hope you can upload some samples!
PS.: And do think that we just had a KC FTD released. :mrgreen:

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:36 pm

Without samples this topic cant go anywhere :mrgreen:

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:47 pm

I'm away from home on business now so don't have the CDR to hand - it would probably be quicker if someone who has the LP and restoration software (doesn't have to pro-tools or anything, just basic software) could do it, my post was really more about drawing attention to the existence of these recordings on an old bootleg album, which I am sure many here have. But if by the time I get ome and can make the time, I'll post samples if no one else has done it.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:08 pm

GLAISTER wrote:This is my first post - been lurking in the shadows for months so finally thought I'd make myself known.

I was recently looking through my old vinyl bootleg collection, looking for something to transfer to digital. While cleaning up the audio on the KC acetates on the "From The Beach To The Bayou" album, I thought "let's see what happens if I put a little space between the channels ... " and lo and behold when I did so I realised I was listening to binaural - not mono as I assume others have always thought as I have never seen any reference to binaural KC acetates at all, anywhere.

This is a revelation, as it means we now have binaural recrodings from all 4 of Elvis pre-army movies. More interestingly, such discoveries - for me at least - feed the hope that more such material exists somewhere - but unlike as in this case, we have been sitting on this material for 40 years but never knew what we had!


I'm not quite sure what this means. Can you explain further this process?

Radio Recorders ran binaural tapes as back-ups as early as Elvis' January 1957 sessions, so it is not a surprise to imagine it was done a year later.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:35 pm

I thought it has been long established the King Creole sessions had Binaural tape backups made.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:48 pm

There are no binaural acetates.

Tapes were made, yes.

Acetates? No.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:04 pm

I think this is a complex statement, it would have meant that the acetates were cut with a binaural-stylus in the first place (1958). Every other reproduction would also have to be with such stylus. I would be surprised if the actual acetates cut back in 1958 were produced with this stylus, but of course I hope so. I will give my old boot a spin (BTW not a first pressing according to Bootleg Elvis). Interesting topic.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:23 pm

I assumed the source was acetates because on listening to the LP (a 1st countefeit issue according to "Bootleg Elvis"), there is a little surface noise between tracks but nothing excessive, and then suddenly there is a big increase in pops, clicks and crackle whilst the track itself is playing. It may all may all be taped sourced, but I never considered it as to me those recordings have always sounded too noisy for tape. Also, one of the versions of 'As Long As I Have You' (sorry, away from home, can't reference the precise take) has a pop in exactly the same place as the version, which we know was from acetate, on the old "Rockin' Rebel" LP.

As several posters have commented here, we know Radio Recorders were recording in Binaural as early as '57. Whether binaural acetates were cut, who can say for certain - I just know I think these tracks are a.) from acetates and b.) in binaural.

The evidence is there, on the "Beach From The Bayou" LP for all to hear. But I am open to being corrected, in which case I guess I'd better go and get my ears syringed (again)!

And for the doc - to answer your question - I increased the bandwith between the left and right channels. Just a little, just for fun. I've tried this with several old boots - for example, the version of 'Mama Liked The Roses' on the "Memphis Memories" LP sounds at best like very narrowly mixed stereo but is in fact binaural - once again - a little space between the channels reveals most of the orchestration on the one track (the left, from memory) and the rest on the right with Elvis in the middle.

Interesting! THat's why I posted - apologies to those who expected samples - I should have seen that coming - but the Bayou LP isn't especially rare and any issue will do as I posted yesterday so I hope someone else with more time than me will do the same thing as I did and post samples themselves!

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:25 pm

Welcome, GLAISTER. Nice to have you here.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:06 pm

Tomorrow night I will transfer the bootleg to cd-r and if someone can help, I would like to post samples here. BTW I have a stereo-stylus and a second-pressing so I guess we should hear if it's binaural.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:43 am

This all sounds very interesting to me......I am looking forward to hearing the results.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:05 am

They've tried to create stereo versions in the past like this LP The original stereo versions released in 1989.
Some tracks were binaural versions but One night (T 10) - I beg of you (T 34) – Jailhouse rock (master) – Lover doll (H T 7) – Treat me nice (master) are fake stereo versions. Later on Jailhouse rock and Treat me nice were available in binaural but not in 1989.

colonel snow
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Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:50 pm

I have just convert the album on my PC but for me they are in mono

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:28 pm

So I need to post samples - bear with me ...

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Yesterday I transferred the original pressing to digital format. There is obvious level-differences between r and l but this is absolutely no indication that the b-side is in binaural. Imho this ocurred when the acetates initially were transfered to tape or whatever, they probably used a stereo-stylus and not a mono-stylus. Furthermore the booters added severe noise-reduction b-side is more muffled soundwide than the Blue Hawaii-sessions on side a. Can someone help me how to post a sample. Equipment used: Rega P1, Rega Carbon, Yamaha A-S700 and Sony CDR-W33 plus supra-interlinks.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:05 pm

drghanem wrote:Yesterday I transferred the original pressing to digital format. There is obvious level-differences between r and l but this is absolutely no indication that the b-side is in binaural. Imho this ocurred when the acetates initially were transfered to tape or whatever, they probably used a stereo-stylus and not a mono-stylus. Furthermore the booters added severe noise-reduction b-side is more muffled soundwide than the Blue Hawaii-sessions on side a. Can someone help me how to post a sample. Equipment used: Rega P1, Rega Carbon, Yamaha A-S700 and Sony CDR-W33 plus supra-interlinks.


go to zippyshare.com click on browse, find where u stored the file, then click open, and hit the upload button, then copy the link and post it here :)

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:16 pm

Thanks Johnny, will try to post sample or entire b-side later this afternoon.

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:31 pm

Here is the first song of each side


Can't Help Falling In Love (take 13)
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/3wFVRo0A/file.html


King Creole (take 2)
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/bOOgDs7f/file.html

I agree there is sometimes a difference of level between left and right but for me it's only a level volume and it's still mono

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:58 pm

When you say binaural do you mean real binaural or stereo

Re: BINAURAL KING CREOLE ACETATES

Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:32 pm

GLAISTER wrote:So I need to post samples - bear with me ...

Are you still going to post samples?

Keith