Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Does Billboard routinely mention all reissues.....for example have

Elvis
Loving You
Elvis Now
Good Times
And the eight sountrack albums


all released in the last 12 months been mentioned, let alone reviewed..

A good point,but we are taliking about about a hot as a pistol rock star at that time and place,not someone who has been dead 32 years and has a virtual plethora of releases on the marketplace...
to put in in perspective,do you not think that BB would not note a re-issue of Emeniems with a new cover and Cat. #?

With Elvis Christmas Album we are only talking about a change of catalogue number. Who would care.

Why on earth would that make news for Billboard worth reporting.

Well,it wouldnt with an artrist with less of Elvis' importance-but why then,would this not make the LP charts in 1958,or 1959,but then make an apperance in the 1960 chart?
It would seem to affirm the fact that 1951 was not released to the public until 1960.
Paul Dowling has weighed in on this,I would be interested in Neal Umphreads opinion...

Does Billboard routinely mention all reissues.....for example have

Elvis
Loving You
Elvis Now
Good Times
And the eight sountrack albums


all released in the last 12 months been mentioned, let alone reviewed..

A good point,but we are taliking about about a hot as a pistol rock star at that time and place,not someone who has been dead 32 years and has a virtual plethora of releases on the marketplace...
to put in in perspective,do you not think that BB would not note a re-issue of Emeniems with a new cover and Cat. #?

With Elvis Christmas Album we are only talking about a change of catalogue number. Who would care.

Why on earth would that make news for Billboard worth reporting.

Well,it wouldnt with an artrist with less of Elvis' importance-but why then,would this not make the LP charts in 1958,or 1959,but then make an apperance in the 1960 chart?
It would seem to affirm the fact that 1951 was not released to the public until 1960.
Paul Dowling has weighed in on this,I would be interested in Neal Umphreads opinion...

Elvis was out of public sight during 58/59. In Christmas 1960 he was huge with a TV show, It's Now Or Never and Are You Lonesome Tonight raising his profile to 1956 levels. Naturally his past issues were selling again.

With Elvis Christmas Album we are only talking about a change of catalogue number.

Wrong.

It has been made repeatedly clear on this topic that the re-release bore a brand-new front and back cover, in addition to a change in catalog number.

If you have anything of value to add to this topic, one that encompasses the time span 1957 to 1960 ONLY, please do so AFTER having read and absorbed all the work that went into creating it.

Maybe one day I'll come out with my gigantic WORLDWIDE ELVIS PRESLEY DISCOGRAPHY but it's now way over 4000 pages and I need a year easily just to revise and update it! Anyone know a publisher willing to pay me to complete it? Or actually I should say - would anyone out these want a huge book like this??

I surely WANT to get that book, because I need that's kind book!!! That's probably should release as book series... I mean that how one book contains OVER 4.000 pages!!! Or make that as a CD-ROM release...

It's quite easy to find out details about USA pressings. But if I want to know all variations of Blue River song's wrongly mastered variations in France (It was 4 seconds too long), then I'm so lost...

Having looked at this subject over the seven pages available again,I have to agree with the Doc.How can LPM-1951 have been released in 1958, when the front cover photo was taken by the Teldec company in May 1959?.
I still stick by what I said on page 2 of this topic,that it first appeared in November 1959.

With Elvis Christmas Album we are only talking about a change of catalogue number.

Wrong.

It has been made repeatedly clear on this topic that the re-release bore a brand-new front and back cover, in addition to a change in catalog number.

If you have anything of value to add to this topic, one that encompasses the time span 1957 to 1960 ONLY, please do so AFTER having read and absorbed all the work that went into creating it.

Not wrong at all.

You are ignoring the real possibility that yhe first issue of LPM 1951 was firstrerleased with the same cover as the LOC issue in 1959 and at a later date was replaced with a new cover.

You going against the bulk of evidence including RCA's own discography.


Sorry to burst yoour bubble.

LOC-1035 - released: October 15, 1957
LPM-1951 - released: October 9, 1959

Would Joel Whitburn be considered an expert?

Here is what he writes about Elvis Christmas Album

"originally issued LOC 1035 (red Cover) as a gatefold with a 10 page booklet of color photos( made pop charts) reisssued 1958 on LPM 1951 Blue cover......)

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=K1JL ... 1%22&cd=10

You are ignoring the real possibility that yhe first issue of LPM 1951 was firstrerleased with the same cover as the LOC issue in 1959 and at a later date was replaced with a new cover.

For the last time, read what was posted on the first page before making future comments. The above "real possibility" has been proven impossible.

As for Whitburn, it should be plainly obvious he is parroting all the other INCORRECT discographies.

Having looked at this subject over the seven pages available again,I have to agree with the Doc.How can LPM-1951 have been released in 1958, when the front cover photo was taken by the Teldec company in May 1959?.
I still stick by what I said on page 2 of this topic,that it first appeared in November 1959.

Thank you. Not everyone participating on this topic is ignoring the research presented.

I'm really amazed that the Elvis Collectors in the U.S. cannot pinpoint a release date for LPM-1951.
I thought for sure that one or more of you would remember when you purchased it.

A FYI. This topic is generating a lot of interest from outside as well as in. Lets all be cordial in our replies etc and hope it comes to the correct conclusion.

Can we stop dragging the EP into this and concentrate on the LP

I am surprised that anyone can dismiss Joel Whitburn so easily.


Thr disparity in serial numbers has yet to be explained.

It would seem that every release date that has been published, aside from Solid Gold Elvis, is incorrect.

Can we stop dragging the EP into this and concentrate on the LP

I am surprised that anyone can dismiss Joel Whitburn so easily.


Thr disparity in serial numbers has yet to be explained.

I don't understand why a disparity in serial numbers would even be an issue considering how many examples there are of serial numbers not matching up with chronological release dates. The fact that there are few examples in Elvis' career of that happening means nothing, he wasn't a special case where RCA said to themselves "we better make sure ELVIS' serial numbers match with the chronological discography!".

Can we stop dragging the EP into this and concentrate on the LP

I am surprised that anyone can dismiss Joel Whitburn so easily.


Thr disparity in serial numbers has yet to be explained.

I don't understand why a disparity in serial numbers would even be an issue considering how many examples there are of serial numbers not matching up with chronological release dates. The fact that there are few examples in Elvis' career of that happening means nothing, he wasn't a special case where RCA said to themselves "we better make sure ELVIS' serial numbers match with the chronological discography!".

Can you give examples of numbers out of sequence of two years from other RCA artists?

Don't know about other artists, but Elvis Golden Records LSP 2765 was apparently released before Fun in Acapulco LSP-2756.

A FYI. This topic is generating a lot of interest from outside as well as in. Lets all be cordial in our replies etc and hope it comes to the correct conclusion.

How exciting!!

Score another one for the DOC!!!

I'm still awaiting some feedback from a person who knows a lot.

In Canada---LOC-1035 was issued for christmas 1957, in 1958 it was changed to LPM-1951, with the same front cover as LOC-1035, in 1959, the cover was changed to the standard LPM--1951

This could be a key.

I have looked at the serial numbers around 1951

LPM 1948 Glen Miller
LPM 1949 George Beverly Shea..................................................First Billboard mention Aprtil 13 1959
LPM 1950 Jim Reeves.................................................................." " " " " February 23 1959
LPM 1951 Elvis
LPM 1952 Ballet Espanol.............................................................. " " " " " May 25 1959
LPM 1953 Maureen O'Hara............................................................. " " " " " July 20 1959
LPM 1954 Ames Brothers............................................................... " " " " " April 13 1959
LPM 1955 Melachrino Strings........................................................ " " " " " August 31 1959
LPM 1956 Henry Mancini................................................................ " " " " Sep 7 1959

My contention is that LOC 1035 became "out of print" first quarter 1959 and LPM 1951 was slotted in to cover orders. It might have been a marketing strategy to bring the cheaper version out.The first issues could well have the same red cover and changed to blue later to freshen sales.

LOC 1035 sale price was $4.98 and LPM version $3.98.

EPA 4340 does not require any detective work to establish a 1959 date ....just look at the first matrix number. K=1959.

The blue cover would have been made for the LP then reduced for the EP. You can't do it the other way round. This suggests that the blue LP cover appeared in 1959


So

1957 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1958 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1959 March LPM 1951 with red cover
1959 October LPM 1951 with cover change EPA 4340

I note that Billboard charts in the early 60's treated both versions as the one entity

So

1957 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1958 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1959 March LPM 1951 with red cover
1959 October LPM 1951 with cover change EPA 4340

I note that Billboard charts in the early 60's treated both versions as the one entity

Unfortunately, your analysis is flawed, and the conclusions incorrect.

I'll be back in a few hours to post my latest findings, which blow another hole in the discography paradigm of Elvis' Christmas Album.

1957 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1958 LOC 1035 EPA 4108
1959 March LPM 1951 with red cover
1959 October LPM 1951 with cover change EPA 4340

I don't think the Canadian LPM 1951 was released in March, there's no
reason for a Christmas album in March. That would place it in October 1959,
but since Barry knows he got his copy in 1958 .....
Maybe Barry can ask his friend from RCA Canada!

Hi Dick.
I checked with RCA Canada, but no release record.
The thing is RCA Canada needed a Christmas LP of Elvis for 1958, and as LOC-1035 was only in stock for 1957, and remember RCA Canada imported the U.S. cover and only pressed the record, stock was gone, quick fix --reissue it with almost the same cover, and a new number.

... Let me remind you that if LPM-1951 (U.S.) turns out to be a 1959 release, you (drjohncarpenter) were the one adamantly insisting that it was a 1960 release.

Thanks for the reminder; I never said anything of the kind.

---

For everyone else, I have some VERY interesting additional information coming up.

Hi Dick.
I checked with RCA Canada, but no release record.
The thing is RCA Canada needed a Christmas LP of Elvis for 1958, and as LOC-1035 was only in stock for 1957, and remember RCA Canada imported the U.S. cover and only pressed the record, stock was gone, quick fix --reissue it with almost the same cover, and a new number.

Fair enough Barry.
This seemed to be a quicky release which would fit to the list that KiwiAlan posted above.

I think that, as soon as RCA planned to release an album, they reserved a catalog number for it.
So the Jim Reeves album (LPM 1950) was planned around the same time as LPM 1951. But
since LPM 1951 was just a "copy and paste" job, it could have already been released in October 1958.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Searched and learned that the Schwann Catalogue, a monthly* publication which lists all new releases, was there since 1948 so if anyone has copies of this publication can you please check when LPM-1951 was mentioned?

* For a while it was a monthly publication, for a while it was quarterly. In the 50's it was a monthly publication.

... Let me remind you that if LPM-1951 (U.S.) turns out to be a 1959 release, you (drjohncarpenter) were the one adamantly insisting that it was a 1960 release.

Thanks for the reminder; I never said anything of the kind.

---

For everyone else, I have some VERY interesting additional information coming up.

POSSIBLE --> release of LPM 1951 in Nov 1959

Last edited by 3577 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.