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Re: Elvis, King and X

Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:35 pm

When you start to add up Elvis's direct actions, virtually all illegal when he was very young, they begin to look less modest, in my view. Where are Cash or Perkins or Jerry Lee at the WDIA Goodwill reviews? They ever do anything like at the Fairgrounds? Break the law?! Get write ups in black newspapers?
Or how about March 13 1960? Memphis Press Schimitar the following day. The previous evening was "The Performance for Negroes." Guess who showed up, ascended to the orchestra conductor's tower, asked for the lighted baton and briefly CONDUCTED THE ORCHESTRA as the skaters skated for black Memphians.
Just Google it, making sure to include his name the date Ice Capades Memphis . . . I have seen the article but there are other accounts with pictures from the night at Graceland. He wore fine threads that night.
This was at the very time of the sit-ins! Elvis came home from being "drafted and shafted and everything else" to find the south in utter upheaval.
Did he run away? Hell no. He joined in.
Then he made Flaming Star that year.
I have burned a CD of around 24 social conciusness and protest songs without "Too Much Monkey Business." Ran out of space.
Most other artists sorta played at being in "the Scene" while Elvis did things with no publicity stunts in mind. Hell the Col arranged those.
THANKS, DOC. Especially for explaining Juneteenth to all.
And thanks again to Brian and other nice folks for exposing those photos! I wanted to turn a cartwheel.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:54 pm

rjm wrote:When you start to add up Elvis's direct actions, virtually all illegal when he was very young, they begin to look less modest, in my view. Where are Cash or Perkins or Jerry Lee at the WDIA Goodwill reviews? They ever do anything like at the Fairgrounds? Break the law?! Get write ups in black newspapers?

Or how about March 13 1960? Memphis Press Scimitar the following day. The previous evening was "The Performance for Negroes." Guess who showed up, ascended to the orchestra conductor's tower, asked for the lighted baton and briefly CONDUCTED THE ORCHESTRA as the skaters skated for black Memphians.
Just Google it, making sure to include his name the date Ice Capades Memphis . . . I have seen the article but there are other accounts with pictures from the night at Graceland. He wore fine threads that night.

This was at the very time of the sit-ins! Elvis came home from being "drafted and shafted and everything else" to find the south in utter upheaval.

Did he run away? Hell no. He joined in.


Then he made Flaming Star that year.

I have burned a CD of around 24 social consciousness and protest songs without "Too Much Monkey Business." Ran out of space.

Most other artists sorta played at being in "the Scene" while Elvis did things with no publicity stunts in mind. Hell the Col arranged those.

THANKS, DOC. Especially for explaining Juneteenth to all.

And thanks again to Brian and other nice folks for exposing those photos! I wanted to turn a cartwheel.



Elvis' attendance on Sunday, March 13, 1960 is noted in a transcribed newspaper article on bripet56's website:

“Holiday On Ice” Company Visiting at Elvis´ Home
Elvis Presley is playing host to the Holiday on Ice company today at his home. Buses were to leave the Hotel Claridge at 2:30, carrying the entire company to Graceland to spend the afternoon.

The singer visited the show again last night at Ellis Auditorium and spent most of the time backstage. He climbed up to the elevated bandstand where Conductor Ben Stabler let him wield his lighted baton for a moment over the 17-piece band. Later he hugged the matronly wardrobe women and told them they had all done “a great job.” Elvis was kept busy signing autographs and posing for pictures for members of the company. He wore a white open-neck shirt and dark suit.

At the performance for Negroes last night, which drew a capacity house, St. Jude Hospital received a check for $500 thru the Zeta Phi Beta sorority, a Negro organization.

Sarah Lewis, top student at LeMoyne College and “Holiday Princess of the Ice for 1960” accepted the check from Mrs. Maggie Jordan, sponsor of the sorority campus chapter, who turned it over to Fred Gattas, representing the hospital. Remaining performances of the ice show will be tonight and tomorrow at 8:30.

Memphis Press-Scimitar, Monday, March 14, 1960


http://www.brian56.dk/600314paper.html

Elvis moved in mysterious ways, didn't he?

Re: Elvis, King and X

Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:23 pm

No {expletive deleted}; he certainly did!
"I would have liked to have known {him} but I was just a kid"
Thanks.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:23 am

rjm, thank you for adding a splendid insight into this thread (thanks for picking it up, Doc).

You seem to display intriguing knowledge with regard to some events in Elvis' career: might I ask if you're based in Memphis and do you have a particular connection with the Elvis World?

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:40 am

Well I did grow up in the deep south from about ten years old and my mom loved him cause she listened to country radio all night. In my early teens, something happened in school. We were in the girls old locker room and this girl had just come back from someplace in alabama I think where he had performed. He was apparently unwell. Everyone hovered asking what he was like.
She said simply "he got fat." I was always a victim of bullies and she was among 'em. I was infuriated. On an almost primal level. Bought my own first Elvis album. It was the TV special! On eight track as I recall. Whatever format, it's gone.
Didn't see Graceland till he was gone. I remember his daddy's hand lettered sign asking for donations for "upkeep." "Could you help us?" I found it touching and had a twenty in my coin pocket. Graceland was never so beautiful as in the pre open house days. You were free to wander the grounds, Uncle Vester was at the gate . . . his guys hung out across the street. Lost souls. Charlie turned out to be NOT a nice guy. Reasons I suppose: he realized some things and I guess I should never have asked about that song. "You'll Be Gone" The waitress at the Howard Johnson's had info and proof that blew me away. It was Elvis's hideaway and she had the signed checks for Elvis's bacon burgers. The guys came in to eat but they took food to Elvis's room. Why? We asked. She leaned in and said "to get away from his father." I kinda respected Vernon in a new way after that. Do not believe anyone who says he "feared" his only child. Or that Elvis did not know what he was doing. I mean there is always denial but he knew.
I was a Journalism student then but this was private. I have told you guys this latter stuff for the first time.
Elvis has been gone a long time now.
Too long.
I will be returning to the Bluff City soon. Oh, anybody ever hear Sam Phillips "preach" in person? Wow. His voice filled with the "rock" of ages, his eyes wild. I got to Memphis lots from the late 70s till the millenium.
Got stuck in Cali teaching and three years ago my mom died. Just me and my dad left.
Elvis was a "lonely only" who had moved a lot and was knocked around by bullies his whole life and even after.
But that is all.
Thanks George.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:51 am

Oh. the waitress was NOT talking about that song.

Needed a fresh paragraph!

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:52 am

Oh. the waitress was NOT talking about that song.

Needed a fresh paragraph!

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:53 am

that was an interesting story to say the least...thanks for opening up and sharing.

rjm wrote:Well I did grow up in the deep south from about ten years old and my mom loved him cause she listened to country radio all night. In my early teens, something happened in school. We were in the girls old locker room and this girl had just come back from someplace in alabama I think where he had performed. He was apparently unwell. Everyone hovered asking what he was like.
She said simply "he got fat." I was always a victim of bullies and she was among 'em. I was infuriated. On an almost primal level. Bought my own first Elvis album. It was the TV special! On eight track as I recall. Whatever format, it's gone.
Didn't see Graceland till he was gone. I remember his daddy's hand lettered sign asking for donations for "upkeep." "Could you help us?" I found it touching and had a twenty in my coin pocket. Graceland was never so beautiful as in the pre open house days. You were free to wander the grounds, Uncle Vester was at the gate . . . his guys hung out across the street. Lost souls. Charlie turned out to be NOT a nice guy. Reasons I suppose: he realized some things and I guess I should never have asked about that song. "You'll Be Gone" The waitress at the Howard Johnson's had info and proof that blew me away. It was Elvis's hideaway and she had the signed checks for Elvis's bacon burgers. The guys came in to eat but they took food to Elvis's room. Why? We asked. She leaned in and said "to get away from his father." I kinda respected Vernon in a new way after that. Do not believe anyone who says he "feared" his only child. Or that Elvis did not know what he was doing. I mean there is always denial but he knew.
I was a Journalism student then but this was private. I have told you guys this latter stuff for the first time.
Elvis has been gone a long time now.
Too long.
I will be returning to the Bluff City soon. Oh, anybody ever hear Sam Phillips "preach" in person? Wow. His voice filled with the "rock" of ages, his eyes wild. I got to Memphis lots from the late 70s till the millenium.
Got stuck in Cali teaching and three years ago my mom died. Just me and my dad left.
Elvis was a "lonely only" who had moved a lot and was knocked around by bullies his whole life and even after.
But that is all.
Thanks George.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:49 am

Thank you, rjm, that's quite a story.

Please continue to share your memories and insights!

Re: Elvis, King and X

Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:52 am

rjm wrote:Well I did grow up in the deep south from about ten years old and my mom loved him cause she listened to country radio all night. In my early teens, something happened in school. We were in the girls old locker room and this girl had just come back from someplace in alabama I think where he had performed. He was apparently unwell. Everyone hovered asking what he was like.
She said simply "he got fat." I was always a victim of bullies and she was among 'em. I was infuriated. On an almost primal level. Bought my own first Elvis album. It was the TV special! On eight track as I recall. Whatever format, it's gone.
Didn't see Graceland till he was gone. I remember his daddy's hand lettered sign asking for donations for "upkeep." "Could you help us?" I found it touching and had a twenty in my coin pocket. Graceland was never so beautiful as in the pre open house days. You were free to wander the grounds, Uncle Vester was at the gate . . . his guys hung out across the street. Lost souls. Charlie turned out to be NOT a nice guy. Reasons I suppose: he realized some things and I guess I should never have asked about that song. "You'll Be Gone" The waitress at the Howard Johnson's had info and proof that blew me away. It was Elvis's hideaway and she had the signed checks for Elvis's bacon burgers. The guys came in to eat but they took food to Elvis's room. Why? We asked. She leaned in and said "to get away from his father." I kinda respected Vernon in a new way after that. Do not believe anyone who says he "feared" his only child. Or that Elvis did not know what he was doing. I mean there is always denial but he knew.
I was a Journalism student then but this was private. I have told you guys this latter stuff for the first time.
Elvis has been gone a long time now.
Too long.
I will be returning to the Bluff City soon. Oh, anybody ever hear Sam Phillips "preach" in person? Wow. His voice filled with the "rock" of ages, his eyes wild. I got to Memphis lots from the late 70s till the millenium.
Got stuck in Cali teaching and three years ago my mom died. Just me and my dad left.
Elvis was a "lonely only" who had moved a lot and was knocked around by bullies his whole life and even after.
But that is all.
Thanks George.


Interesting post, thanks for sharing this!

Just quickly though, what do you mean in regards to Charlie Hodge and "You'll Be Gone" - and also what do you mean about Elvis did know what he was doing. Do you mean in regards to the drugs?

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:07 am

1. As to drugs, well that is what she meant. She leaned in and lowered her voice. She looked like she had worked there a long time. The point was that he guys came in to eat and talked with one another. They were not discrete. Guess they did not take much notice of the older lady. At that time, it was THE controversy. The only one. In Tupelo the lady in the grungy old youth center said,after I said it was so sad about what happened, became defensive and replied "he was a sick man!" I had not meant anything about how he died. Just that it was sad that he did die.
Yet, oddly, no one I met had any fondness for Dr. Nick.
Talk about denial. And I saw the look on the waitress's face. A little fear . . . I dunno if anyone had asked "why" before. There was hesitation. Then she leaned in. We had already been shown the checks.
Back then, "why" was NOT a fave Elvis fan word. I'll put it that way.
2. Charlie. I asked nicely "who wrote the words and who wrote the music?" He turned PURPLE! "Elvis couldn't do ANYTHING but sing. ANYTHING!" I had not even said Elvis's name. I will remember this if I live to be 110 years old. Swear to God.
Much later I read that he had a lot of personal problems in the years after his boss's death. It's ok. But you just had to see and hear him.
No laughing.
Kinda wish nobody would want details. Shoulda kept it to myself. I mean, he acted real diff. to Guralnick, clearly. And he asked the same question among others.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:11 am

rjm wrote:1. As to drugs, well that is what she meant. She leaned in and lowered her voice. She looked like she had worked there a long time. The point was that he guys came in to eat and talked with one another. They were not discrete. Guess they did not take much notice of the older lady. At that time, it was THE controversy. The only one. In Tupelo the lady in the grungy old youth center said,after I said it was so sad about what happened, became defensive and replied "he was a sick man!" I had not meant anything about how he died. Just that it was sad that he did die.
Yet, oddly, no one I met had any fondness for Dr. Nick.
Talk about denial. And I saw the look on the waitress's face. A little fear . . . I dunno if anyone had asked "why" before. There was hesitation. Then she leaned in. We had already been shown the checks.
Back then, "why" was NOT a fave Elvis fan word. I'll put it that way.
2. Charlie. I asked nicely "who wrote the words and who wrote the music?" He turned PURPLE! "Elvis couldn't do ANYTHING but sing. ANYTHING!" I had not even said Elvis's name. I will remember this if I live to be 110 years old. Swear to God.
Much later I read that he had a lot of personal problems in the years after his boss's death. It's ok. But you just had to see and hear him.
No laughing.
Kinda wish nobody would want details. Shoulda kept it to myself. I mean, he acted real diff. to Guralnick, clearly. And he asked the same question among others.


That's ok, enough time has passed I feel for information like this to be shared. Thanks again.

It is interesting, I kinda knew Charlie had his problems, but I didn't expect to hear him slag Presley off like this to a fan. Maybe after Elvis' death he was mad at Elvis for throwing his life and career away. I'm no psychiatrist, I can't even spell the bloody word, but maybe something like that was going on for poor Charlie.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:32 am

rjm wrote:2. Charlie. I asked nicely "who wrote the words and who wrote the music?" He turned PURPLE! "Elvis couldn't do ANYTHING but sing. ANYTHING!" I had not even said Elvis's name. I will remember this if I live to be 110 years old. Swear to God.

Some here tend to revere Charlie for his "unwavering support" of Elvis, but it always came off as nothing but sycophancy to others. I'm in the second group.

That said, your story shows he was, like all of us, a complex, imperfect person. No doubt "You'll Be Gone" was a collaboration between Hodge, West and Presley, even if Charlie may have "done more" than the other two.

His overall contributions to Elvis' musical concerns will always be appreciated by those who know better, from voice coaching in 1959-60 to helping out with the 1966 gospel session song selections, and his stellar efforts during the small combo jams in 1968, pushing his friend Elvis to come to life like never before, and never since.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:00 am

Remember these verses?

"I'm goin back home to Memphis/
Drive that ####in' damn truck again/
Said I'm goin home [blues repeat]/
Joe, Charlie, and Richard'll starve to death/
Yeahhhh, and Sonny'll be in the pen"

"Stranger in My Own Hometown" 1970

Guess maybe not everyone appreciated the "humorous" nature of such musical teasing. Because it was true. The Blues is truth. And Elvis's words described both his cage and theirs.

I think this is the nerve I somehow hit. {And Charlie was the one Elvis sent to the publishers to get permission for the Cole Porter melody. Rejected. Maybe Elvis got real ticked off at him. We just do not know.}

I do know that when I returned to the motel, I cried.

Elvis's REAL friends: fellow musicians, musical peers were often shut out of his life. At the time I did not know how much. Or how hard some reached out. Bob Johnston's biggest regret he says is the collapse of an intended Dylan-Elvis studio collaboration. In a Warren Zevon song, Zevon yells "pick up the phone!" Perhaps many more.
In my view, he was surruonded by guys who generally resented rather than respected him.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:31 pm

rjm wrote:In my view, he was surrounded by guys who generally resented rather than respected him.

Maybe it's better put as he surrounded himself with guys who generally resented rather than respected him.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:58 pm

Doc, you're right. There was always choice. A lot of people resented Zevon's second Elvis song "Porcelain Monkey" for the same reason Zevon's snobbier fans like it.
I just know what I hear. He was a session musician in the 70s and apparently kept a close ear. Clearly loved his voice. Felt it was a waste of so much. "He made a world. As small as your hand."
Lisa clearly believes that such individuals as she knew growing up "magnetize around" such a big star and seal the world out.
We must try to be more objective.
First, Parker had to go. But could he send them away? Both fear and pity were involved.
How about THIS lyric? "I would have paid off the traitor and killed him much later. But that's just the way that I am."
Dylan.1978
Ouch.
I do not know what I would do. Especially the way he was raised. His mother did not really want him to male his own personal decisions. And he took it. Read June Juanico's book if you haven'. He was grounded at 21! Sat behind him in the car with a rolled up magazine with which she bopped him on the head whenever he touched his girl's hand. Told G. Stoker "If I was vulgar, my mama would whip me." Thus, he was not "vulgar." He was not in any case!
What I mean is that he did need to justify himself that way. He did not need Mama's or anyone else's approval but his own conscience.
Even at 21, it was time to start thinking about growing up. You are right Doc.
When he really started sowing some oats, it sure was convenient to have these yesmen. Then it all turned on him. He needn't have worried about trators but he kinda set himself up. So when Red ad cousin were unceremoniously told they was no longer employed, they only THEN "loved" him with a knife in the back.
You are right. But we all just want to "wish" our helpless child was protected.
I guess most fans are also implicated. Me: a mere fan. Bob Dylan: a fan/peer. Any fan who just wished they could have "done more" or who craved vengeance, as in the "traitor" lyric.
I feel weird now. Confused. But you ARE right,, Doc.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:07 am

I did NOT mean YOU were "snobby"; I was referring to many Zevon fans, of course. They do not care what happend to a particular human being. Until their guy met tragedy. Then, all ironies dissloved.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:14 am

rjm wrote:Doc, you're right. There was always choice. A lot of people resented Zevon's second Elvis song "Porcelain Monkey" for the same reason Zevon's snobbier fans like it.

Zevon may have said it all with "Jesus Mentioned" in any case.

rjm wrote:So when Red ad cousin were unceremoniously told they was no longer employed, they only THEN "loved" him with a knife in the back.

Well, yes and no. They were "let go" not because of expenses but because they (especially Red) directly confronted him about his escalating drug habits. Elvis: What Happened? was both an "F-You" and a dare to get him to confront his denial. If he had done so, he might still be alive, and the book squelched.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:44 am

Lotta people do not know that Zevon was a trained singer and his voice on "Jesus Mentioned" is ethereal, lovely. I do not care what his fans think, who writes at least two obvious songs about someone if you are not personally troubled?
I mean, did Dylan write about Barbra Streisand? {giggle} He wrote about Joan Baez.
And Elvis. But at the opposite pole, really, from Zevon. When any bitterness creeps in, it is swept away by self-implication in content, and compassion.

As to the Wests {partucularly Red}, well they should have QUIT. Would have lent them more credibility. And if one is going to transcrbe a "private" phone call, at least try for accuracy! {real transcript in "Elvis Word for Word" Osborne}
But Elvis was not just in denial; he was telling lies to both the world and sometimes, to himself. From Jumpstreet he knew he was doing wrong things. Which is why he wanted to hear "yes" and run away {a few blocks away!} from "no."
When he couldn't stop that book, he had nowhere to run or hide.
My point is that it was only a symptom of his building this tiny yesworld.
In 1970, December, he was confronted. Priscilla has told two diff. stories, but the essence was "what kind of Christmas presents could possibly add up to that much money?" He ran off and didn't want to call home until he gave Vernon enough time to really sweat. In every account, Vernon was very worried; Priscilla remained calm. She said so.
Came home with proof of his invincibility.

The point renains: he had be able to tell HIMSELF "no." In order to live. But by 77 he had made himself desperately ill. It started with glaucoma, the bouts of hepatitus, steroids which distoted his face, idiopathic megacolon which distended his abdomen . . . all of which did not have to have happened. And finally, polypharmacy of sufficient proportions to terminate life.
The state of Tennessee now calls it a "heart attack." That is not a medical term. All of us will die because our hearts have been attacked. Elvis did not have a myocardial infarction.
So for the Wests to do this when they did . . . when they knew he was hanging on by a thread?
The only truly appropriate time was shortly after the Jaycees award in 71.

Let us not forget: this "bad boy" was also an unusually good man. And a genius.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:05 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Very odd post, but let me dive right in anyway.

elvisallc wrote:Did Elvis ever meet Dr. King or speak of him other than through the song If I Can Dream?

Yes -- privately he expressed great respect for the man.

What did Elvis think of the racist Malcolm X and his hatred for whites?

You have no idea what you are talking about. You need to educate yourself.

A decent starting point is Alex Haley's book -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobiography_of_Malcolm_X

Did Elvis ever stand up against racism publicly?

Yes.

What was his views on the Klu Klux Klan being from the deep south?

Unknown, but not likely to be favorable, no matter where they were from.

What would he think of Obama and tomorrow being the inauguration for the first black president?

Unknown, but he would probably be as blown away as most Americans.


elvisallc wrote:Let me make it clear that i do not support Barack Obama but I will stand behind him as our president and hope and pray he knows what he's doing.

Oh, it's as clear as the kettle on the stove is black.

You do not support him because lacks the "experience" to be president, right?


Maybe he doesn't support him because he's spending us into oblivion? Ever think of that?

Re: Elvis, King and X

Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:37 am

Facts aside; let's say that "he" is spending "us" into . . .
WHO IS "US"?
"The same God who made you made {them} too."
there but for the grace of God go you and I

So, "don't count on any medals, son, they're pinning none on you." Medals for sacrifice on behalf of people who are growing up as poor and desperate as Elvis, but who will not meet a Marion Keisker and hit the jackpot. Talented folks, too. Someone is out there.
Elvis's first two weeks of life were spent in a charity ward. The doctor got his fee from "the welfare." Wtihout all that cursed spending on "them," we would not be having this discussion. Nor so many other discussion of artists who followed in the wake of Jesse Garon's brother.
Who paid his taxes without complaint. {Or even a decent tax attorney, but that's another story.}

Guess it's one reason why I prefer Christmas to Easter . . .
In my not so humble opinion.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:13 am

rjm wrote:Facts aside; let's say that "he" is spending "us" into . . .
WHO IS "US"? "US" would be all Americans. Don't put your prejudices on me.
"The same God who made you made {them} too."
there but for the grace of God go you and I

. . .
.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:09 pm

vbgt wrote:Maybe he doesn't support him because he's spending us into oblivion? Ever think of that?

That was the previous administration. Thanks for stopping by!

Re: Elvis, King and X

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:46 pm

nice posts rjm, thanks for sharing those insights.

Re: Elvis, King and X

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:56 pm

rickeap wrote:nice posts rjm, thanks for sharing those insights.

Which insights do you like best, and why?