Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players!

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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by norrie »

It sure was a great topic Doc. I just thought that after noticing your name in the acknowledgements(well done BTW) that you were trying for an answer for the book project.Three years was a bit of a stretch mind you but I've no idea when these projects are initiated.

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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

norrie wrote:It sure was a great topic Doc. I just thought that after noticing your name in the acknowledgements(well done BTW) that you were trying for an answer for the book project.Three years was a bit of a stretch mind you but I've no idea when these projects are initiated.
I helped in other ways. All to the good!


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
norrie wrote:It sure was a great topic Doc. I just thought that after noticing your name in the acknowledgements(well done BTW) that you were trying for an answer for the book project.Three years was a bit of a stretch mind you but I've no idea when these projects are initiated.
I helped in other ways. All to the good!
Man, i've really enjoyed reading all this...what a great read!!!!!!


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1347711

Post by drjohncarpenter »

After much thought, I have a new suggestion for who the acoustic bass player may be:

Grady Martin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_Martin
http://www.guitarworld.com/tags/grady-martin

Although primarily a guitarist, Martin was skilled at many instruments. Perhaps Hank Garland, who had just worked with Elvis a few days before in Nashville but did not make the Sinatra taping, suggested his session-playing friend to help out. Here are the photos of the acoustic bass player we have from the Sinatra taping:


Image

Timex Special rehearsal, March 1960


Image

LIFE magazine - May 16, 1960 - DETAIL
Elvis Presley (left hand), Scotty Moore, unknown


Here are some images of Grady from this period:

001.jpg
002.jpg
003.jpg
004.jpg

Thoughts? The hairline and the weight, not to mention his sterling pedigree as a musician, seem a good fit. He would do a handful of studio and soundtrack sessions with Elvis between 1963 and 1967, his first coming during the May 1963 single and album project for RCA. His fuzz guitar on "Slowly But Surely" is fabulous.
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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by JimmyCool »

Seems plausible.


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by General Sarnoff »

There's a pic of Mr. Martin (with Gary Burton) from August of 1960 located here:

http://www.angelfire.com/tn2/bobloyce/garlandjazzw.html

And perhaps an even better one here-- playing a doghouse bass!!:

http://www.vintageguitar.com/wp-content/uploads/GARLAND1.jpg

I'd say that's a pretty good batch of circumstantial evidence...!



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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by rjm »

I think that's as close as humanly possible at this point. I wonder if he has family or close friends who could confirm it. Surely, someone knew who this guy was. Scotty is right there and he would know him . . . I don't know if it would be possible for him to weigh in.

Here's an album cover with a side view.

Image
TimexMarch1960UnknownBassPlayer.jpg
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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

Hey! Long time no see!!

Hope all is well with LFVI.

General Sarnoff wrote:There's a pic of Mr. Martin (with Gary Burton) from August of 1960 located here:

http://www.angelfire.com/tn2/bobloyce/garlandjazzw.html

And perhaps an even better one here-- playing a doghouse bass!!:

Image

I'd say that's a pretty good batch of circumstantial evidence...!
005.jpg
006.jpg
Wow, I think I am ready to make a commitment to my latest suggestion and update the OP. Thank you!!

I will see if James from the Scotty Moore site can possibly ask his friend about this first. Sending a PM now.

Need I add ... THIS IS WHAT MAKES FECC SO AWESOME!


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

rjm wrote:I think that's as close as humanly possible at this point. I wonder if he has family or close friends who could confirm it. Surely, someone knew who this guy was. Scotty is right there and he would know him . . . I don't know if it would be possible for him to weigh in.

Here's an album cover with a side view.
All The Way w Grady Martin.jpg
Image[/attachment]

rjm
Thanks! I think the mystery has been solved. Waiting on James to see if he can add anything.
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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by JimmyCool »

Grady Martin kinda looks like Bill Black a little...


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by rjm »

JimmyCool wrote:Grady Martin kinda looks like Bill Black a little...
Makes you wanna go "hmmm . . ." A little bit, yeah.

Image

rjm


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1347792

Post by TJ »

This website suggests that Grady Martin was at Bradley Studio in Nashville on March 25, 1960 for a Marty Robbins session and at the same studio on March 27-28, 1960 for a Brenda Lee session:
http://members.home.nl/henk.gorter/Itc6003.html

The television show was taped on the 26th.

This site also has the 27th-28th dates for the Lee sessions and says that Martin was there both days:
http://countrydiscography.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/brenda-lee.html

If accurate, it seems unlikely that Martin would have gone down to Miami and back in the day between the Robbins and Lee sessions, particularly as the rest of the band were rehearsing in the days leading up to the show (and the unknown bass player is also pictured in rehearsal).

Guralnick says that Scotty, DJ and the Jords went down from Nashville, but that the rest of the band was picked up in Miami. It would be interesting to know what made him draw that conclusion.

There's some resemblance with the pics, but if the above session info is correct, it seems Martin was in Nashville when the special was recorded.


Image

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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by rjm »

He's gotta be SOMEBODY! It's not like he's a ghost or something. Odd that he looks like so many people.

This is weird. It wasn't like Elvis was all alone at the time. Very strange, indeed.

I might put out an "Amber Alert" on Facebook. The results will at least be pretty funny, if nothing else.

Something fun to do on Boxing Day. (Besides enjoying the stuff that was inside the boxes!)

rjm

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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1347836

Post by drjohncarpenter »

General Sarnoff wrote:Well, here's a few more pics from one of the rehearsals.

Image

Image

Image

I'd say anyone that's got a copy of that magazine probably has the best photo of the bass player...

Thanks for more photo finds. None of these seem to bring us closer to the idea of it being Grady Martin, though.

rehearsal 01.jpg
rehearsal 02.jpg
rehearsal 03.jpg

It is unusual to see a bow being used by the acoustic bass musician. Could this be another clue? I'll be interested in if we get any feedback from James, who runs the Scotty Moore site.
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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by JamesVRoy »

Hi John,
I tried replying to your message this morning but you have messaging as a recipient blocked. Its a logical assumption and some of those pix are very reminiscent of Grady but I don't believe its was him. I would suspect Scotty would have remembered it if it had been Grady, at least then. He, like Hank, was legendary in Nashville. I doubt though even at the time that it would have been cost effective for Grady to travel to Florida with them. Bob Moore told me before that he and Hank only went to Hawaii because they wanted to see Hawaii and RCA was footing the bill.
Hope you, your family and everyone else here have a safe and great Holiday season.
Jim


Also, classical (music) players use a bow with double or upright basses, much like a cello. I don't know why though they would have used one for what I expect them to have played, or who made that choice.
..



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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by promiseland »

The pix look close, but it's obvious it's not Grady.



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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1347954

Post by drjohncarpenter »

JamesVRoy wrote:Hi John,
I tried replying to your message this morning but you have messaging as a recipient blocked. Its a logical assumption and some of those pix are very reminiscent of Grady but I don't believe its was him. I would suspect Scotty would have remembered it if it had been Grady, at least then. He, like Hank, was legendary in Nashville. I doubt though even at the time that it would have been cost effective for Grady to travel to Florida with them. Bob Moore told me before that he and Hank only went to Hawaii because they wanted to see Hawaii and RCA was footing the bill.
Hope you, your family and everyone else here have a safe and great Holiday season.
Jim
Thanks. Unless a completely clear and upfront image can be found where we see it is Grady Martin, I suspect we are back to the great unknown. The most likely remaining possibility is that the man was a part of the Fontainebleau Hotel orchestra. This may explain his use of a bow while backing Elvis on "Fame and Fortune" and "Stuck On You."


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1348691

Post by mike edwards66 »

Very interesting, even the guys over on the Sinatra Forum don't know the answer. The only person who might remember is Scotty Moore.

I would guess, the guy in question was a jobber.


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

UPDATE: April 2015
A newly-surfaced rehearsal photo gives us our first full shot of the mysterious acoustic bass player's face.


Image

Image

He has somewhat haunting eyes, and sallow cheeks. Who is this man?

It's been almost 55 years since the Sinatra program was broadcast, and we still don't know.

Anyone?


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1382558

Post by Jim Dandy »

No chance Bob Alexus was carried over to Memphis '61? Might help to explain the Larry Owens/Muhoberac 'The Kings Men' support act plus the dual bass and dual drummer personnel.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1429436728.428544.jpg

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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1382565

Post by davide »

drjohncarpenter wrote:UPDATE: April 2015
A newly-surfaced rehearsal photo gives us our first full shot of the mysterious acoustic bass player's face.


Image

Image

He has somewhat haunting eyes, and sallow cheeks. Who is this man?

It's been almost 55 years since the Sinatra program was broadcast, and we still don't know.

Anyone?
Maybe it will remain one of those mysteries..of course the photo is not newly-surfaced, as it appeared in the Welcome Home Elvis FTD book/ Getty Images, released in 2012.

With thanks
Davide
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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1382572

Post by Mike Windgren »

Hi there!! :D :D :D.
davide wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:UPDATE: April 2015
A newly-surfaced rehearsal photo gives us our first full shot of the mysterious acoustic bass player's face.


Image

Image

He has somewhat haunting eyes, and sallow cheeks. Who is this man?

It's been almost 55 years since the Sinatra program was broadcast, and we still don't know.

Anyone?
Maybe it will remain one of those mysteries..of course the photo is not newly-surfaced, as it appeared in the Welcome Home Elvis FTD book/ Getty Images, released in 2012.

With thanks
Davide
Maybe the Doc doesn´t have the book...:smt005. Bye for now :smt006.


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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

#1382583

Post by poormadpeter »

If there is a possibility that this guitarist is someone from the Riddle band, then the names can be reduced to a relatively short list. These are the guitarists who played with Riddle at Sinatra sessions between 1956 and 1961:

Al Viola
Al Hendrickson
Laurindo Almeida (it's not him)
Tony Rizzi
Nick Bonney
George van Epps



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Re: Sinatra Timex Show - March 1960 -> Name The Bass Players

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Post by Channeling Elvis »

poormadpeter wrote:If there is a possibility that this guitarist is someone from the Riddle band, then the names can be reduced to a relatively short list. These are the guitarists who played with Riddle at Sinatra sessions between 1956 and 1961:

Al Viola
Al Hendrickson
Laurindo Almeida (it's not him)
Tony Rizzi
Nick Bonney
George van Epps

Did a quick Google images search; not a lot to go by there, but it could be Rizzi or van Epps.


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