Elvis recording "Without Love" in 1954??

[bethann]

is there anyone on this forum who can substantiate this story??? Personally, I've never read this.

"Sam Phillips acquired a demo recording of "Without Love (There Is Nothing)" and called Elvis Presley on June 26, 1954 to record it. Presley was not able to do justice to the song (though he would record it years later)"

[Scott]

What's the source on this?

Considering the song was first recorded by Clyde McPhatter in 1957, the above story could appear to be bollocks.

Seems unlikely such a good song would lay dormant for a few years. Perhaps it's an unknown song with the same title? Also unlikely, I guess ...

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

If I remember correctly, this was written by Paul Lichter in "The Boy Who Dared To Rock".

The song in question is actually "Without You", a demo from Peer Music that Sam wanted to have one of his artists record. I believe that Marion Keisker prodded Sam to call "the boy with sideburns". According to legend, this happened in late June 1954. Elvis apparently struggled mightily with the song without an acceptable recording.

I think this is the song that was being referenced here.

The Lichter book was great when it came out, because it was one of the early attempts (after Ernst Jorgensen) to catalog Elvis' recording sessions. However, Lichter also published a completely erroneous list of unreleased Sun recordings in this book. So the material in this book has to be considered carefully.

[ekenee]

If I remember correctly, this was written by Paul Lichter in "The Boy Who Dared To Rock".

The song in question is actually "Without You", a demo from Peer Music that Sam wanted to have one of his artists record. I believe that Marion Keisker prodded Sam to call "the boy with sideburns". According to legend, this happened in late June 1954. Elvis apparently struggled mightily with the song without an acceptable recording.

I think this is the song that was being referenced here.

The Lichter book was great when it came out, because it was one of the early attempts (after Ernst Jorgensen) to catalog Elvis' recording sessions. However, Lichter also published a completely erroneous list of unreleased Sun recordings in this book. So the material in this book has to be considered carefully.

So, how do you know that the list of songs listed was not recorded by Elvis and then recorded over?

Out of the dozens of songs recorded over by Sam Philips, do you have inside information as to what those titles were?

From what research that was done in the 70's there are about 40 such titles as the ones that the Blue Moon Boys recorded and Sam didn't find those performances satisfactory so he recorded over them.

If you don't know what was recorded then you are in no position to say they are totally erroneous.
There are many books such has "The Sun Years" by Cotton that talks about such erased tapes.

[Keith F]

What's the source on this?

Considering the song was first recorded by Clyde McPhatter in 1957, the above story could appear to be bollocks.

Seems unlikely such a good song would lay dormant for a few years. Perhaps it's an unknown song with the same title? Also unlikely, I guess ...

This is a short sample of the original "Without You" by the unknown black singer, that Sam tried to get Elvis to record - Without success

Without You

"Sam Phillips acquired a demo recording of "Without Love (There Is Nothing)" and called Elvis Presley on June 26, 1954 to record it. Presley was not able to do justice to the song (though he would record it years later)"

It's NOT the same song Elvis recorded on January 23rd 1969!

Trust Keith - I know!

[bethann]

What's the source on this?

Considering the song was first recorded by Clyde McPhatter in 1957, the above story could appear to be bollocks.

Seems unlikely such a good song would lay dormant for a few years. Perhaps it's an unknown song with the same title? Also unlikely, I guess ...

This is a short sample of the original "Without You" by the unknown black singer, that Sam tried to get Elvis to record - Without success

Without You

"Sam Phillips acquired a demo recording of "Without Love (There Is Nothing)" and called Elvis Presley on June 26, 1954 to record it. Presley was not able to do justice to the song (though he would record it years later)"

It's NOT the same song Elvis recorded on January 23rd 1969!

Trust Keith - I know!

Thank you for clearing up this misleading and very untrue piece of information. I am only the messenger and wanted an answer. Even back when he recorded this, Elvis could really sing quite well - a fact that is lost on some of his earliest critics. Thanks again.

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

So, how do you know that the list of songs listed was not recorded by Elvis and then recorded over?

Out of the dozens of songs recorded over by Sam Philips, do you have inside information as to what those titles were?

From what research that was done in the 70's there are about 40 such titles as the ones that the Blue Moon Boys recorded and Sam didn't find those performances satisfactory so he recorded over them.

If you don't know what was recorded then you are in no position to say they are totally erroneous.
There are many books such has "The Sun Years" by Cotton that talks about such erased tapes.

Whoa, now! Hold on a minute, ekenee!

You are absolutely correct. I am in no position to say that the list is totally erroneous. Will you allow me to say that none of these songs have surfaced to date?

Do I have inside information? No--I have just read a lot of conflicting information over the years. Unfortunately, I haven't read Cotton's "Sun Years" book. I would be interested in this list of 40 songs that were taped over. If you have that information,could you post it here?

It is apparent that Sam Phillips operated Sun on a shoestring in 1954-55. I'm sure lots of studio experiments by many Sun artists were taped over. Sam didn't have the financial resources, storage space, or foresight to save all of these studio experiments.

The truth of the matter is that none of us will know everything that Elvis recorded at Sun. Sam apparently did not keep detailed notes (or none have appeared to date.) Lots of experiments were taped over as Sam, Elvis, Scotty, and Bill developed their classic Sun recordings.

So a few tapes survived, and Sam Phillips gave the ones he could find to RCA. He couldn't locate the master tape for "Blue Moon of Kentucky" and both sides of the second single. Who knows what else couldn't be located?

And then RCA, in its infinite wisdom, pitched several of the Sun tapes in 1959 due to a lack of storage space and foresight. (I cannot say with certainty whether the tapes were fished out of the dumpster--this happened before I was born. I presume that they went to an incinerator or a landfill.)

The Sun era is my favorite era of Elvis' recording career. I have no inside information, just my opinion. But I am always open to learning new information. If you have any such inside information to share that would enlighten me on this era, I would love to see it.

More importantly, I hope you have shared it with Ernst to make the Sun boxset even better. I am looking forward to the FTD Sun set in the hope of finding newly discovered recordings and new information.

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

This is a short sample of the original "Without You" by the unknown black singer, that Sam tried to get Elvis to record - Without success

I had never heard the demo before--that was way cool!

I could imagine Elvis singing this song. But it's worlds away from "That's All Right"!

Thanks for sharing.

[ekenee]

So, how do you know that the list of songs listed was not recorded by Elvis and then recorded over?

Out of the dozens of songs recorded over by Sam Philips, do you have inside information as to what those titles were?

From what research that was done in the 70's there are about 40 such titles as the ones that the Blue Moon Boys recorded and Sam didn't find those performances satisfactory so he recorded over them.

If you don't know what was recorded then you are in no position to say they are totally erroneous.
There are many books such has "The Sun Years" by Cotton that talks about such erased tapes.

Whoa, now! Hold on a minute, ekenee!

You are absolutely correct. I am in no position to say that the list is totally erroneous. Will you allow me to say that none of these songs have surfaced to date?

Do I have inside information? No--I have just read a lot of conflicting information over the years. Unfortunately, I haven't read Cotton's "Sun Years" book. I would be interested in this list of 40 songs that were taped over. If you have that information,could you post it here?

It is apparent that Sam Phillips operated Sun on a shoestring in 1954-55. I'm sure lots of studio experiments by many Sun artists were taped over. Sam didn't have the financial resources, storage space, or foresight to save all of these studio experiments.

The truth of the matter is that none of us will know everything that Elvis recorded at Sun. Sam apparently did not keep detailed notes (or none have appeared to date.) Lots of experiments were taped over as Sam, Elvis, Scotty, and Bill developed their classic Sun recordings.

So a few tapes survived, and Sam Phillips gave the ones he could find to RCA. He couldn't locate the master tape for "Blue Moon of Kentucky" and both sides of the second single. Who knows what else couldn't be located?

And then RCA, in its infinite wisdom, pitched several of the Sun tapes in 1959 due to a lack of storage space and foresight. (I cannot say with certainty whether the tapes were fished out of the dumpster--this happened before I was born. I presume that they went to an incinerator or a landfill.)

The Sun era is my favorite era of Elvis' recording career. I have no inside information, just my opinion. But I am always open to learning new information. If you have any such inside information to share that would enlighten me on this era, I would love to see it.

More importantly, I hope you have shared it with Ernst to make the Sun boxset even better. I am looking forward to the FTD Sun set in the hope of finding newly discovered recordings and new information.

I don't have inside information. But my point was, no one does, so you can't come forth and make a claim that is erroneous without some sort of evidence. Of course, the list of songs is without evidence as well.
You can't prove the list is real or fake. No one can. That's my point.
The real evidence was erased years ago.
But the thing is when these 40 or so song titles came about in the late 70's they didn't just come out of thin air.
They must have come from someone's memory.
So, the list of songs in the books may well be real or they may well be fake.
But what does remain a constant in the research is this.
Sam phillips recorded several dozen songs by Elvis at one time or another.
It's up to you to wonder or believe what songs those are or aren't.

[TJ]

This is a short sample of the original "Without You" by the unknown black singer, that Sam tried to get Elvis to record - Without success

Without You

Thanks for posting that. I'd not heard it either. What strikes me as odd is that, from what I've read about Sam over the years, it seems like the kind of song and style that he would try to steer Elvis away from, rather than towards. I can imagine it appealing to Elvis though.

[ColinB]

It doesn't sound like Sam's cup-of-tea, does it ?

All the accounts I've read about him calling Elvis in to try the song out [unsuccessfully as it happens] they never mention if anything actually made it to tape !

[BigredG]

Strange also that one of the 4 songs that made it onto acetae was called (It Wouldn't Be The Same) Without You.

Could this be where the confusion arose ?

[ColinB]

Strange also that one of the 4 songs that made it onto acetae was called (It Wouldn't Be The Same) Without You.

Could this be where the confusion arose ?

Well, we know now that they are two separate songs.

And, of course, for years & years, we thought the 2nd acetate from The Memphis Recording Service was Casual Love Affair/I'll Never Stand In Your Way !

I always assumed the source for this was Marion Keisker.

When it turned up & was found to be [It wouldn't be the same] Without You/I'll Never Stand In Your Way, it led to the idea that maybe Marion misremembered things and there was a third one with Casual Love Affair/xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

At times, the title has been quoted as simply Casual Love and The Doc has speculated that the song might actually be Careless Love.

[colonel snow]

this demo version came from one of the two BBC documentaires from 1987
(I sing like nobody & Cut me and I bleed) with more news from Sam Phillips.

colonel snow

[drjohncarpenter]

The song in question is actually "Without You", a demo from Peer Music that Sam wanted to have one of his artists record. I believe that Marion Keisker prodded Sam to call "the boy with sideburns". According to legend, this happened in late June 1954. Elvis apparently struggled mightily with the song without an acceptable recording.

I think this is the song that was being referenced here.

This is pretyy much correct. The attempts by Elvis to cut "Without You" and others were made on Saturday, June 26, 1954. The demo, acquired by Phillips in May 1954, was made by someone that neither Sam nor Marion could track down. Thus, the inspiration -- thanks Marion! -- to finally call Presley.

About a week later, on July 4, Elvis met Scotty Moore, jammed some tunes that Sunday afternoon with Moore and Bill Black, and the trio cut SUN 209 the very next evening. Nothing would ever be the same after that.

Sadly, the full May 1954 demo of "Without You" has never been issued, although a small segment was aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary I Don't Sing Like Nobody. It pops up on the internet from time to time.

If I remember correctly, this was written by Paul Lichter in "The Boy Who Dared To Rock" ... The Lichter book was great when it came out, because it was one of the early attempts (after Ernst Jorgensen) to catalog Elvis' recording sessions. However, Lichter also published a completely erroneous list of unreleased Sun recordings in this book. So the material in this book has to be considered carefully.

The Boy Who Dared To Rock is supect on many levels, first and foremost because Lichter STOLE the text of JEE's Recordings Sessions (1977) for the "session" section of his 1978 book. Such underhanded acts did not begin with the internet. It was not an attempt to create something credible for fans, rather, it was an intellectual heist of years of research done by some terrific Dutch fans.

It is extremely likely Lichter's list of so-called "unissued" SUN songs is equally lacking credibility. The guy was trying to make a buck in the aftermath of Presley's death, and to that end he did very well.