SUN session, Monday, July 11, 1955 -> A Mystery?

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

That drummer Johnny Bernero, is he still alive?

According to the link below, Johnny Bernero passed away in 2001.

http://www.rockabilly.nl/references/messages/johnny_bernero.htm

[bripet56]

The problem with such dates that has come out of the blue without any evidence at all is that they often tend to become "facts" after a while.

I am no expert on the recording sessions at all but I know that such was the case with a lot of the concert dates in 1956 before I published "The Atomic Powered Singer." As soon as someone publishes a specific date it will soon after be used in another publication and since it has been published by two or more writers is has to be correct.

There don't seem to be much evidence for the SUN sessions at all. July 11 COULD be the correct date but since we have no hard evidence we'll actually never know. It'll be a qualified guess since Elvis was home in Memphis for a short break from touring.

The previous record, SUN 217, had been released some four months earlier so it was high time for a new record to keep the fire burning.

Sincerely
Brian
http://www.brian56.dk

[speedoo]

Here's one for any true expert or collector who visits this forum.



Monday, July 11, 1955 is well known as the day Elvis, Scotty, Bill and Johnny (Bernero) went to 706 Union in Memphis and cut three classic tracks ->

"I Forgot To Remember To Forget"
"Mystery Train"
"Tryin' To Get To You"

However, I have been unable to find one piece of evidence to verify this exact date. There's no session sheet -- producer Sam Phillips never really used them -- or musician's union pay check, or even a diary entry.

Might any of the hard core experts add to this subject?

This book published in 1976 and originally compiled by the late Albert Hand suggests the date for I Forgot and Mystery Train was 18 August 1955.

AtoZ.jpg

A year earlier the wonderful Twenty Years of Elvis reads:

20 Years of Elvis.jpg

20 Years entry.jpg

[bethann]

This book published in 1976 and originally compiled by the late Albert Hand suggests the date for I Forgot and Mystery Train was 18 August 1955.
]

Could August 18, 1988 be the date that it was a pressed, rather than recorded????

[speedoo]

This book published in 1976 and originally compiled by the late Albert Hand suggests the date for I Forgot and Mystery Train was 18 August 1955.
]

Could August 18, 1988 be the date that it was a pressed, rather than recorded????

Bethann, that should be 1955, not 1988. However, where dates are given in the book, they are recording dates albeit not necessarily accurate.

[drjohncarpenter]

This book published in 1976 and originally compiled by the late Albert Hand suggests the date for I Forgot and Mystery Train was 18 August 1955.

This is incorrect, as SUN 223 was issued on August 1, 1955.

-----

According to Escott & Hawkins, another artist had a session on our "Mystery" date:




Monday, July 11, 1955
Gone Gone Gone (SUN 224)
Let The Juke Box Keep On Playing (SUN 224)
What Ya Doin' When You're Crying
Drink Up And Go Home

Carl Perkins: The Sun Years (SUN BOX 101, 1982)

The plot thickens!

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

Were Elvis and Carl touring together at that time? Maybe they both had the same days off.

It is not unreasonable to think that Sam might have scheduled both artists on the same day. However, it seems that all of Elvis' prior recordings on Sun had been the result of extensive studio time, recording take after take until something satisfactory was achieved. Therefore, it seems unlikely to me that Elvis could have recorded 3 songs in 4 hours, as was customary in the recording industry at the time.

Don't forget that Elvis can be heard on the Sun outtakes of "When It Rains It Really Pours" saying "I don't know what I'm going to do with Carl Perkins...over there". (When I visited 706 Union a few years ago, the tour guide said that Carl was making faces at Elvis through the office window.)

"When It Rains" was allegedly recorded in November 1955 around the time Elvis' contract was sold to RCA.

Could Carl have visited two Elvis sessions?

Or was "When It Rains" actually recorded in July 1955? (Another interesting tangent...)

Escott and Hawkins attribute "Mystery Train" and the other two recordings to July 1955 without a specific day.

[TALLHAIR 2]

Maybe the july date originated in Hans Langbroek's
early seventies booklet ' The Hillbilly Cat' ?
Hans, together with friends from Holland and the UK,
did research on the Sun label, and Elvis in particular,
from circa 1968 onwards. They were the true pioneers.
Im not saying the info in his booklet is correct, but it
might be the source for session dates, later used by
others? I dont have a copy of the Hillbilly Cat, but I
spotted the cover of the reprint ( green cover) among
the books on display from 'Speedo' , on the Shock
Rattle and Roll album cover topic. Maybe he can
shed some light on what Hans had to say?

[TALLHAIR 2]

correction! The Hillbilly Cat booklet,
sandwiched between Long Lonely Highway
and Osborne's Presleyana book is seen
on the Ger Rijff books topic, page 5 ,
I believe...?

[drjohncarpenter]

Were Elvis and Carl touring together at that time?

No, they were not.

However, it seems that all of Elvis' prior recordings on Sun had been the result of extensive studio time, recording take after take until something satisfactory was achieved

"That's All Right" (SUN 209) was cut in a single evening on Monday, July 5, 1954, along with two other songs.

Don't forget that Elvis can be heard on the Sun outtakes of "When It Rains It Really Pours" saying "I don't know what I'm going to do with Carl Perkins...over there".

It is unconfirmed if Carl was really there or not. He may have been on tour in early November, and the comment just an offhand joke by the singer. Perkins never mentions any such visit in his autobiography.

Or was "When It Rains" actually recorded in July 1955?

No, it was early November.

Escott and Hawkins attribute "Mystery Train" and the other two recordings to July 1955 without a specific day.

IIRC, their 1991 book names the day as July 11.

[TALLHAIR 2]

went back to page 1 of this thread and see
that The Hillbilly Cat booklet was already
mentioned by colonel snow. Sorry, just
wanted to help...

[drjohncarpenter]

went back to page 1 of this thread and see that The Hillbilly Cat booklet was already
mentioned by colonel snow. Sorry, just wanted to help...

Hey, everyone on the forum loves you very, very much.

[speedoo]

This book published in 1976 and originally compiled by the late Albert Hand suggests the date for I Forgot and Mystery Train was 18 August 1955.

This is incorrect, as SUN 223 was issued on August 1, 1955.

It was purely to show another source for a recording date. Robert Matthew-Walker's A Study In Music suggests it was Jan/Feb for Mystery Train and July for I Forgot.

So far the earliest reference to a July date (no specific day) that I can find is Escott's and Hawkins' Twenty Years Of Elvis which was published in 1976

20 Years entry.jpg

.

[colonel snow]

The same happens to the 5 live recordings with the date 19-03-55; they are certainly not from the same date and place.

Not to go too off topic, but how do you know this? The sound image is the same on all five tracks.

You have to go to the first releases on the import Lp's like The first years (HALW 001) - The rockin' rebel vol. 2 (Golden Archives GA 300) - The first years (Black belt rec. II) - Radio thrills (Moon 101) etc from the late 70's.

Baby let's play house runs too slow while the others run too fast. For several releases later on the intro's has been cut off or replaced elsewhere.
These 5 tracks originates as left over from 3 tapes found in a radio station around 1977. The three tapes were oxidated / broken and couldn't be used.
What's restored was released on these LP's. It's a pity that the tapes were lost.

colonel snow

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

However, it seems that all of Elvis' prior recordings on Sun had been the result of extensive studio time, recording take after take until something satisfactory was achieved

"That's All Right" (SUN 209) was cut in a single evening on Monday, July 5, 1954, along with two other songs.

True enough. But the effort to record a follow-up single seemed to take several days, several songs, and several reels of tape. And we have no idea what studio adventures led to "You're A Heartbreaker" and "Milkcow Blues Boogie". (unless Ernst was fortunate enough to discover something...)

And "I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone" seemed to require a lot of work, judging from the survivng takes.

"Mystery Train" is a truly inspired performance that sounds spontaneous. Perhaps it was a song that Elvis had sung so many times that it was easy to record. "Tryin' To Get To You" sounds just as spontaneous, but Elvis had apparently tried to record it in February 1955 without success.

And it seems that work on "When It Rains" was going slowly from what has been released thus far.

I was just trying to say that while a standard 3-hour, 4-song session could have happened when Elvis recorded these songs, it doesn't seem likely when compared to other songs he recorded at Sun.

Escott and Hawkins attribute "Mystery Train" and the other two recordings to July 1955 without a specific day.

IIRC, their 1991 book names the day as July 11.

I looked it up in Escott and Hawkin's 1991 discography before I wrote that because I wanted to be sure.



I definitely look forward to the FTD Box Set. We should all learn a great deal more about this era.

[JamesVRoy]

It is not unreasonable to think that Sam might have scheduled both artists on the same day. However, it seems that all of Elvis' prior recordings on Sun had been the result of extensive studio time, recording take after take until something satisfactory was achieved. Therefore, it seems unlikely to me that Elvis could have recorded 3 songs in 4 hours, as was customary in the recording industry at the time.

Don't forget that Elvis can be heard on the Sun outtakes of "When It Rains It Really Pours" saying "I don't know what I'm going to do with Carl Perkins...over there". (When I visited 706 Union a few years ago, the tour guide said that Carl was making faces at Elvis through the office window.)
tangent...)

Carl wasn't there. Elvis was referring to Scotty fooling around on guitar, calling him Carl Perkins.

The 3 song four hour rule was a Nashville thing not adhered to by Sun, or even Elvis really when he went to RCA

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

Carl wasn't there. Elvis was referring to Scotty fooling around on guitar, calling him Carl Perkins.

The 3 song four hour rule was a Nashville thing not adhered to by Sun, or even Elvis really when he went to RCA

James:

Thanks for the sanity check from Scotty.

I can certainly visualize Elvis teasing Scotty and calling him Carl Perkins. But, truth be told, Scotty had his own style that many others idolized and tried to emulate.

And I agree about the three hour, four song thing. When Elvis was constrained by that rule, as he was in April 1956 in Nashville, the result was only one song--"I Want You, I Need You, I Love You".

Elvis always worked best in the relaxed pace under which Sun operated.

And Carl required quite a bit of time to record his three or four songs on July 11, 1955. If I remember correctly, there are quite a few outtakes of these songs.

So that may not have left a lot of time for Elvis to record his three songs that day.

I wonder if Scotty remembers how quickly (or slowly) these songs came about in the studio?

[Matthew]

Ernst has his own login...

[Monique]

Carl wasn't there. Elvis was referring to Scotty fooling around on guitar, calling him Carl Perkins.

The 3 song four hour rule was a Nashville thing not adhered to by Sun, or even Elvis really when he went to RCA

James:

Thanks for the sanity check from Scotty.

I can certainly visualize Elvis teasing Scotty and calling him Carl Perkins. But, truth be told, Scotty had his own style that many others idolized and tried to emulate.

And I agree about the three hour, four song thing. When Elvis was constrained by that rule, as he was in April 1956 in Nashville, the result was only one song--"I Want You, I Need You, I Love You".

Elvis always worked best in the relaxed pace under which Sun operated.

And Carl required quite a bit of time to record his three or four songs on July 11, 1955. If I remember correctly, there are quite a few outtakes of these songs.

So that may not have left a lot of time for Elvis to record his three songs that day.

I wonder if Scotty remembers how quickly (or slowly) these songs came about in the studio?

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

[Deleted User 930]

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

The tourguide I had, looked like a breakdancer. Do you want to believe those guys?

[Monique]

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

The tourguide I had, looked like a breakdancer. Do you want to believe those guys?

The one we had, sure looked like a fifties Elvis-fan. Had (untill now) no reason to doubt the info he gave.

[Chris Black]

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

The tourguide I had, looked like a breakdancer. Do you want to believe those guys?

The one we had, sure looked like a fifties Elvis-fan. Had (untill now) no reason to doubt the info he gave.

One of the times I was there they were playing part of the MDQ and crediting it as being from "an Elvis recording session".

[JamesVRoy]

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

We were all in Memphis a couple of years ago for the Ponderosa Stomp that was held at the Gibson Showcase. Scotty took the tour with Dave Briggs, the guitarist with his UK band and Dave was telling me when the tour guide said "and when they recorded this they stood here" and Scotty said "Nope" and then the tour guide said " and when Elvis first sang he sang into this mic" and Scotty said "Nope". Then the tour guide said to Scotty, "This is what they told me to say." Another friend of mine took the tour also with "Fluke" Holland, Johnny Cash's drummer and he told me that Fluke was all over the kid correcting things.
All in all its still a fun tour.

[ColinB]

Strange...when you do a tour at SUN Studio they (or at least the tourguide we had) tell you that Carl showed up and was fooling around just where Elvis could see him...and that that's why Elvis was distracted...

We were all in Memphis a couple of years ago for the Ponderosa Stomp that was held at the Gibson Showcase. Scotty took the tour with Dave Briggs, the guitarist with his UK band and Dave was telling me when the tour guide said "and when they recorded this they stood here" and Scotty said "Nope" and then the tour guide said " and when Elvis first sang he sang into this mic" and Scotty said "Nope". Then the tour guide said to Scotty, "This is what they told me to say."

LOL !

I don't blame Scotty, but if I'd been that tour guide, I'd have said, "OK, you do the narration, then !"

As for the Elvis/Carl bit, sounds like they made that up to fit the audio !

[Rtn 2 Sndr]

Visiting the studio at 706 Union Avenue was an emotional experience for me, because I had listened to the music produced there for nearly thirty years, and I had always wanted to visit the place where it happened.

The best thing about the tour, misinformed tour guides aside, was that I could stand in the studio and imagine what it must have been like in the fifties. I didn't pay a lot of attention to what the tour guide was saying, for I was looking at the construction of the room and observing the location of the office, studio, and control room. It appeared to me that the floor, walls, ceiling, and lighting were either original or carefully restored to resemble the original. The room "felt" original to me.

The so-called rare audio snippets by Elvis that are played during the tour are readily available to any Elvis fan.

I think it would be a good idea for the curator/owner of the Sun studio to take some time to talk to as many as possible of the musicians who passed through the door there to get their recollections. It sounds like Scotty Moore and W.S. Holland could add a lot to the story.

Has anyone seen photos from a Sun recording session by ANY artist? (I guess they were busy making music and didn't have time for a snapshot...) Any such photos could answer a lot of questions about the location of microphones, etc.