Elvis and Vietnam war

[Suspicious Minds]

I know Elvis was discharged from the army in 1964. Could the army keep Elvis in service and send him to Vietnam? Or the 2 year service done and gone he didn't have to go to Vietnam.
I think the Vietnam War was a waste of time and money. Too many young lives lost in that war.

[drjohncarpenter]

I know Elvis was discharged from the army in 1964.

He was?

[Rob]

He may have been officially discharged in 1964. I received my honorable discharge in 1987, but could have still been called back to active duty for the next few years.

[Suspicious Minds]

I did read about this in a book or on the internet that Elvis did not get his official discharge from all army activity until 1964. The 2 years ended in March 1960, I know that. Has anyone else read about this?

[Scott]

Still the only evidence we have, one way or the other, is that Elvis chose to make a reference (and not a positive one) to Vietnam in that January 1968 recording. Make of that what you will.

That is not evidence at all. The Vietnam (previously Okinawa) reference in the song isn't anything to do with protesting against war. It is merely a statement on the bullshit (ie monkey business) involved in army life as a soldier.

[Scott]

I did read about this in a book or on the internet that Elvis did not get his official discharge from all army activity until 1964.

Yes, like all soldiers, he was expected to be available for emergencies and the like up until 1964.

[drjohncarpenter]

That is not evidence at all.

Compared to what you've offered, which is nothing, it's irrefutable evidence.

Have a happy, scott.

[Scott]

That is not evidence at all.

Compared to what you've offered, which is nothing, it's irrefutable evidence.

Have a happy, scott.

When I give a crap about anything you think, Carpy boy, you'll be the first to know.

[tcb4]

it s weird that the memphis mafia guys have so much to say about the little things but when it comes to the first important thing for the american people in the 70's, they say nothing ?

[RKSNASHVILLE]

Scott wrote:

That is not evidence at all. The Vietnam (previously Okinawa) reference in the song isn't anything to do with protesting against war. It is merely a statement on the bullshit (ie monkey business) involved in army life as a soldier.

This is correct. Neither Chuck Berry (the writer) nor Elvis we're making any "statements" about war -- Just about Army life in general.


RKS

[drjohncarpenter]

This is correct. Neither Chuck Berry (the writer) nor Elvis we're making any "statements" about war -- Just about Army life in general.

Actually, your comment is incorrect, as it ignores history.

When Berry wrote and released "Too Much Monkey Business" in September 1956, the Korean War was already three years in the history books, the conflict having ended on July 27, 1953. Berry's character was looking back on a past experience.

The 1968 Presley recording came in the midst of a very turbulent year of unrest, much of it because of the ongoing Vietnam War. It wouldn't end until April 1975. His character was actively involved in his story, because the story was not over.

His substitution of "Vietnam" in the lyric is indeed a statement, period.

[KiwiAlan]

Thats my point on the Memphis Mafia guys,they will tell you everything about Elvis drug habit and girls and anything that lets you know how bad they had it, yet anything that is really intersting such as Elvis view on the war and other issues they dont say a word,just the same old rehashed stories!

Well one might consider the MM to be a bunch of thick red necks with limited understanding of the world outside of Graceland.

Or a group of keen intellectuals who loved sitting around and discussing national and world affairs at every opportunity while swatting away countless invitations to guest lecture at numerous universities.

[drjohncarpenter]

Well one might consider the MM to be a bunch of thick red necks with limited understanding of the world outside of Graceland.

Or a group of keen intellectuals who loved sitting around and discussing national and world affairs at every opportunity while swatting away countless invitations to guest lecture at numerous universities.

The truth lies somewhere in between those extreme descriptions.

For all the things about Jerry Schilling that are less than wonderful, he did have a reputation for quietly speaking his mind about issues of the day -- and those views were usually just a tad left of center. Elvis needed more people like that, if only to keep things from being boring.

[norrie]

Scott wrote:You must be kidding ...

Read his letter to Nixon, for instance. He was of the "My country, right or wrong" variety

He was after the badge,he would have said anything to get it

norrie

[drjohncarpenter]

He was after the badge,he would have said anything to get it ...

Absolutely correct.

[Scott]

Scott wrote:You must be kidding ...

Read his letter to Nixon, for instance. He was of the "My country, right or wrong" variety

He was after the badge,he would have said anything to get it

norrie

I see. So he was lying about his love for his country, and dislike of the hippie element, was he?

I don't think so.

[Scott]

Berry's character was looking back on a past experience.

Vietnam War. His character was actively involved in his story, because the story was not over.

His substitution of "Vietnam" in the lyric is indeed a statement, period.

Yes, but it isn't a statement about the futility of war itself, nor is it in any way a protest about war. The whole song is about monkey business, the bullshit of "hard workin' at the mill/come a rotten bill" (why did Elvis omit this verse?); "salesman talkin' to me"; "blonde ... tryin' to get me hooked"; "my objections overruled"; "take home ... dime gone"; "fillin' station ... too many tasks" ...

.. and "Been to Yokohama* - been fightin in the war.
Army bunk - army chow - army clothes - army car, aah!
Too much monkey business. Too much monkey business.
Too much monkey business for me to be involved in!"

It's just a former soldier's lament of how crappy his situation was (or is, in the case of Elvis' version). It is clearly not a protest at war itself. The substitution of 'Vietnam' for 'Yokohama' just made it more contemporary.

* I mistakenly wrote Okinawa previously.

[drjohncarpenter]

Yes, but it isn't a statement about the futility of war itself, nor is it in any way a protest about war.

No, it just happened -- by pure chance -- to be altered, recorded and issued in the midst of one of the most turbulent years of the entire decade, an unrest predicated by a major disenchantment with the war in Vietnam.

Say goodnight, scott.

[RKSNASHVILLE]

Scott wrote:

Yes, but it isn't a statement about the futility of war itself, nor is it in any way a protest about war. The whole song is about monkey business, the bullshit of "hard workin' at the mill/come a rotten bill" (why did Elvis omit this verse?); "salesman talkin' to me"; "blonde ... tryin' to get me hooked"; "my objections overruled"; "take home ... dime gone"; "fillin' station ... too many tasks" ...

.. and "Been to Yokohama* - been fightin in the war.
Army bunk - army chow - army clothes - army car, aah!
Too much monkey business. Too much monkey business.
Too much monkey business for me to be involved in!"

It's just a former soldier's lament of how crappy his situation was (or is, in the case of Elvis' version). It is clearly not a protest at war itself. The substitution of 'Vietnam' for 'Yokohama' just made it more contemporary.

This is correct.

Goodnight Doc.

RKS

[Scott]

No, it just happened -- by pure chance -- to be altered, recorded and issued in the midst of one of the most turbulent years of the entire decade, an unrest predicated by a major disenchantment with the war in Vietnam.

You're being churlish, as is your usual stance when confronted by facts.

I never said the substitution was by chance; in fact, I said the exact opposite! The reference to 'Vietnam' was simply to make the lyrics more contemporary for '68. Were someone to record it today, they could easily use 'Kandahar'.

It is patently ridiculous to think that this verse is in any way a protest against war itself, or Vietnam in particular or that Elvis Presley would have included an anti-Vietnam stance in any of his songs.

(And don't bother bringing up If I Can Dream here either - that was a plea for peace, not a statement against his government's involvement in any particular "police action").

The verse is a man bitching about army life, nothing more.

[Mister Mike]

No, it just happened -- by pure chance -- to be altered, recorded and issued in the midst of one of the most turbulent years of the entire decade, an unrest predicated by a major disenchantment with the war in Vietnam.

You're being churlish, as is your usual stance when confronted by facts.

I never said the substitution was by chance; in fact, I said the exact opposite! The reference to 'Vietnam' was simply to make the lyrics more contemporary for '68. Were someone to record it today, they could easily use 'Kandahar'.

It is patently ridiculous to think that this verse is in any way a protest against war itself, or Vietnam in particular or that Elvis Presley would have included an anti-Vietnam stance in any of his songs.

(And don't bother bringing up If I Can Dream here either - that was a plea for peace, not a statement against his government's involvement in any particular "police action").

The verse is a man bitching about army life, nothing more.

Point, set and match, Mr. Scott!

[drjohncarpenter]

... when confronted by facts.

Confronted? No one offers more facts on this forum than the doc. Let's offer you some more facts:

1) if Elvis had approached Berry's tune as "a man bitching about army life, nothing more" he would not have bothered with a lyric change

2) the topic asked for evidence of "elvis' opinion about the Vietnam war" -- as usual, I delivered something substantial, you offered nothing

Chew on those facts for a while.

Nightie-nite, scott.

[Scott]

if Elvis had approached Berry's tune as "a man bitching about army life, nothing more" he would not have bothered with a lyric change

Ridiculous assumption. Just plainly ridiculous, and grasping at straws. Why the hell would he sing of Yokohama? Vietnam was a contemporary reference, a concept seemingly beyond your comprehension.

And even if he'd have left it as Yokohama, it's still a man bitching about his army stint! So, according to your "logic", the singer is going to moan about his woman, his job, the salesman et al .. and then also throw in a protest about war itself? Hilarious!

the topic asked for evidence of "elvis' opinion about the Vietnam war"

Yes it did, dear boy, it most certainly did. And mentioning Vietnam in the song is not evidence of his opinion about the war, no matter which way you slice it. No one's going to follow you on this one, Carperoony.

as usual, I delivered something substantial,

Yeah, where? I'll have Columbo look over the scene, perhaps he can find something.

No one offers more facts on this forum than the doc.

Indeed. And if more of them were correct, you'd be doing a lot better!

"That's not nelson Riddle," you asserted about that picture on the Sinatra 1960 thread. And, lo and behold, it was Nelson, confirmed by his own family.

No one should take what you - or anyone - says as gospel. Rise up, people, and confirm such "facts" yourselves. Don't be fooled any longer by this pretender and wannabe. Rise up, I say!

My God, man ... you really do believe you're king of this forum. There was no irony or sarcasm in your statement. You actually believe it - that there's a king or No.1 expert here, which is weird enough ... and that you're it! That is just sad.

But you do speak in the third person, though ... Scott is most impressed!

[drjohncarpenter]

Why the hell would he sing of Yokohama? Vietnam was a contemporary reference, a concept seemingly beyond your conprehension.

Actually, there are no concepts beyond my conprehension, scott.

However, you are getting closer to the truth.

Keep dreaming, scott. Dreaming is free.

[Scott]

Why the hell would he sing of Yokohama? Vietnam was a contemporary reference, a concept seemingly beyond your conprehension.

Actually, there are no concepts beyond my conprehension, scott.

However, you are getting closer to the truth.

Keep dreaming, scott. Dreaming is free.

So, after all this marvellous banter back and forth between us, the best you could come up with was a reference to a typo I'd made, and a rehash of your "dreaming is free" quote?

Oh, Carp. Dude, seriously; I thought you were better than that.

Oh, and it's Scott, by the way, not scott.

Looking forward, as always, to hearing the truth. Such as you think it is.

*****

But back to the topic at hand - anyone else feel free to jump in here of course - tcb4's comment that "it s weird that the memphis mafia guys have so much to say about the little things but when it comes to the first important thing for the american people in the 70's, they say nothing?" ... what do you mean here?