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Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:03 pm

Scott wrote:
elvislennon wrote: Because of the band members wearing the outfits.


This is my point (sort of anyway. It's one of them).

Who is to say what band outfits were worn on what date?!

Yes, obviously there is footage with two (or more?) lots of band outfits ... but how does anyone know which footage is from which date?


I meant that they are not wearing the same outfits. Sorry for the confusion. :roll:

It has been edited..... :wink:

It goes from Light Blue to Dark Blue....... :roll:

If that is the same color then I am in the Twilight Zone. :shock:
Watch the footage here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1-94Cvyu8


Watch just the band members and see them change the color of the outfits. :roll: 8) :wink: :D


Tell me with out lying or joking around that they are wearing the same outfits.


Also, there is many ways to tell where a photo or footage was taken at. We first go by what the band is wearing. Then if they are a match the is other ways as well. If there is a view of the stage then that is one way and many other ways as well.
Last edited by elvislennon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:08 pm

elvislennon wrote:It is as easy as 2 and 2............ :roll:

c'mon tell me the answer i hate these trivia's when i don't know the answers :evil: :lol: :lol:


the band wore light blue suits in Detroit

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:11 pm

It was only in Detroit that the Band Members wore white while Elvis is wearing that suit.


Elvislennon - look again. The bad are in BLUE in Detroit, as seen in the outake footage.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:12 pm

DarrylMac wrote:
It was only in Detroit that the Band Members wore white while Elvis is wearing that suit.


Elvislennon - look again. The bad are in BLUE in Detroit, as seen in the outake footage.



I know I was in a hurry in writing that....I meant light blue......I will edited it. :P

Oh, have you got an answer to my question in a pervious post? :roll:
Last edited by elvislennon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:16 pm

This is my point (sort of anyway. It's one of them).

Who is to say what band outfits were worn on what date?!

Yes, obviously there is footage with two (or more?) lots of band outfits ... but how does anyone know which footage is from which date?


Scott, in the early 70's, the number of occasions that Elvis wore the same jumpsuit, combined with the band wearng the same colours on the same tour are surprisingly small. When you get to 76, and Elvis wore the same 2 suits a lot, it becomes harder, but there are still giveaways. Hair, arena, whether there are seats behind,m jewellery worn etc etc.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:01 pm

After having done some research I guess the backstage footage was most likely filmed at the Olympic Stadium in Detroit on April 6.
Now, there is the problem of Burning Love which according to the floating tracklist was not performed on April 5....
So I listened very closely to my audience tape of the show and probably found the solution.
After An American Trilogy there is cut and than Elvis announces: "My latest record ladies and gentlemen". This is followed by Johnny B. Goode.
Burning Love thus was most likely performed at Buffalo.
Here is my proposal for the Buffalo set:

2001 Theme
C. C. Rider
Proud Mary
Never Been To Spain
You Gave Me A Mountain
Until it's Time For You To Go
Polk Salad Annie
Love Me
Blue Suede Shoes
All Shook Up
Teddy Bear
Don't Be Cruel
Hound Dog
A Big Hunk of Love
I Can't Stop Loving You
Love Me Tender
Suspicious Minds
An American Trilogy

< cut out: Band Introductions, Burning Love>

Johnny B. Goode
Lawdy Miss Clawdy
Funny How Time Slips Away
Can't Help Falling In Love
Closing Vamp

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:04 pm

"Burning Love" was not performed in Buffalo. It was performed for the very first time in Greensboro, NC on April 14, 1972.

Listen to the Greensboro show and you'll hear Elvis say so.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:10 pm

munichelvisfan wrote:After having done some research I guess the backstage footage was most likely filmed at the Olympic Stadium in Detroit on April 6.
Now, there is the problem of Burning Love which according to the floating tracklist was not performed on April 5....
So I listened very closely to my audience tape of the show and probably found the solution.
After An American Trilogy there is cut and than Elvis announces: "My latest record ladies and gentlemen". This is followed by Johnny B. Goode.
Burning Love thus was most likely performed at Buffalo.
Here is my proposal for the Buffalo set:

2001 Theme
C. C. Rider
Proud Mary
Never Been To Spain
You Gave Me A Mountain
Until it's Time For You To Go
Polk Salad Annie
Love Me
Blue Suede Shoes
All Shook Up
Teddy Bear
Don't Be Cruel
Hound Dog
A Big Hunk of Love
I Can't Stop Loving You
Love Me Tender
Suspicious Minds
An American Trilogy

< cut out: Band Introductions, Burning Love>

Johnny B. Goode
Lawdy Miss Clawdy
Funny How Time Slips Away
Can't Help Falling In Love
Closing Vamp



Burning Love was first done in Greensboro April 14, 1972. Elvis says that on stage as Rob pointed out. You need to do more research on it. You will find out that he first sung it in Greensboro.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:18 pm

Rob and elvislennon are both correct. BL wasn't performed live until April 14, 1972 in Greensboro, NC. I actually prefer the April 18, 1972 performance in San Antonio, Texas.....

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:21 pm

Rob wrote:"Burning Love" was not performed in Buffalo. It was performed for the very first time in Greensboro, NC on April 14, 1972.

Listen to the Greensboro show and you'll hear Elvis say so.
You are probably right BUT not imo cause EP said so. This is the same guy in 1969 that said at least a half dozen times(shows) "this is my FIRST live performance in 9 years"... LOL!!!

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:27 pm

Yep. I am sorry and just figured out that the "latest record" statement actually is Trilogy. The single was shipped on April 4th, 1972.
San Antoine is I also think correct.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:46 pm

munichelvisfan wrote:Yep. I am sorry and just figured out that the "latest record" statement actually is Trilogy. The single was shipped on April 4th, 1972.
San Antoine is I also think correct.


See I knew that there was something to Elvis' statement at Buffalo concert. :roll:

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:26 pm

Scott wrote:
elvislennon wrote: Because of the band members wearing the outfits.


This is my point (sort of anyway. It's one of them).

Who is to say what band outfits were worn on what date?!

Yes, obviously there is footage with two (or more?) lots of band outfits ... but how does anyone know which footage is from which date?


I will answer this more for you.

What we do is take photos that we know are from the dates. Then when someone ask us where there photo is from we will go through our library of photos to see if we have a match. First, we will see what Elvis wore. Then, we go by what the band is wearing. They didn't wear the same outfit the very next night. They would change colors. They may wear black on one day, red the following and back to black the day after. Now, 1976 and 1977 are the hardest years to do for the reason Elvis mostly wore the Bicentennial suit (both versions). He mostly wore the Mexician Sundail suit in 1977. Those are tricky because since Elvis wore that suit and band members would change every time it would look like that it could be from any show. The photo can look like several dates at one time. We would then go by jewelry (what he wore or didn't), arena layout, stage layout and so on. From 1970 to 1975 it is not hard for us really since he wore many different suits during that time period.

For the footage, we see Elvis wearing the Red Lion suit. Will as I said before, he wore that suit four times during the April 1972 tour - Detroit, Roanoke, Macon (ES), and San Antonio. So, that take away all other dates since he didn't wear the Red Lion Suit at the other shows. The band members outfits are next. We see it changes from Light Blue To Dark Blue. Ok, that leaves out Macon which they wore black. I am not for sure what color suits they wore in Roanoke but it wasn't light blue. So that leaves only Detroit. As for the dark blue suits, if in Roanoke they happen to wear dark blue (which I don't know what they wore) we go by the stage layout. It looks just like San Antonio. So that means the footage is from Detroit and San Antonio.

This gives you an idea on what we know. It is easy once you know what to look for.

Again, the way the stage is laid out gives the best sign on where he is at because all stages are not the same. They may look similar but but no two looks alike. Their is always something different.

I hope this helps you understand how we figure out dates on footage and photos.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:45 am

elvislennon wrote: Then, we go by what the band is wearing. They didn't wear the same outfit the very next night. They would change colors .


How do you know this? Is it an assumption on some people's behalf, or has someone from the band said they changed each night? Why could they not have worn the same colour scheme consecutively.

Now, the reason I brought all this up is that I have three newspaper reviews from Detroit April 6th (one from the Free Press and one from the News).

All three have pictures from the show - and all three show his hair down a little over his forehead, not up and clean off his forehead like in On Tour. And no, It doesn't look as if the pics were taken at the end of the show either.

(And the pic in the review for San Antonio - while inconclusive - shows a lot more forehead with his hair up, although he's sweating so it's also down a bit).

(Before anyone asks - sorry, I don't have a scanner!)

Now, checking his general physical appearance via newspaper reviews on April 17th (Little Rock) and April 19th (Albuquerque): his hair is more swept up off his forehead - so would not April 18th (San Antonio) be consistent with that look?

And checking photos from April 5th (Buffalo) and April 7th (Dayton) - both hairstyles are down on his forehead. So, again, would not April 6th (Detroit) be consistent with that look?

I find it more credible that his hairstyle would have stayed pretty much the same over these two three-day periods. Hair down around the 5th to the 7th, and up around the 17th to the 19th. Look at the MSG cover from Jacksonville 16th as well - hair up.

And references like Tunzi's Recording Sessions and Jorgsensen's Complete Recording Sessions make reference to San Antonio.

So, if you and others believe the Red Lion on stage footage from On Tour is actually from Detroit, are you saying these reference books are incorrect?

Can you see what I'm getting at here?

Detroit (April 6th) - hair down, consistent with adjacent shows;
San Antonio (April 18th) - hair up, consistent with adjacent shows, plus other references.

And, FWIW, the Detroit reviews make no mention at all of the MGM cameras, but the San Antonio review does. As do Hampton Roads (9th) and Richmond (14th) - no other reviews on the tour mention cameras at all.

(As for the backstage footage of the Red Lion, I'd suggest it is from Macon on the 15th - it seems likely to me that Elvis would be talking about the trouble with Burning Love the night after it was first performed ... ?)

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:53 am

Good questions. Very good, you are trying to learn how we know and that is good. First off, don't go by photos in the newspapers. Most photos may say they are from the date given but I have seen some that they are wrong. But that is another story.

I am going to address this question first "So, if you and others believe the Red Lion on stage footage from On Tour is actually from Detroit, are you saying these reference books are incorrect?"

If they say that it is from Detroit then I say they are incorrect. I never said it was from Detroit at all. It is from San Antonio. I say this because of what Elvis himself is saying. Joe mentions doing Burning Love after the Band Intros. Elvis gives a weird look and someone says they didn't know where to end it. Elvis explains that it was suppose to be Hunk, Hunk a Burning Love, twice and the end. Tutt missed it and kept going a little bit. Well, Elvis first sung Burning Love in Greensboro. End of story.

As for books reference to Elvis On Tour. We know that they filmed Buffalo, Detroit, Hampton Roads (both shows), Greensboro, Macon (both shows), Jacksonville, Richmond, and San Antonio. This not means they filmed the whole show. But more in likely that both Hampton Roads showa, Greensboro, Richmond, and San Antonio is complete because of the audio on CD that we have that comes from Elvis On Tour tapes. Now, since we have San Antone on RCA release of Close Up and in stereo we can wonder if RCA was on hand for the other shows as well. Again, that is another story. Some books gives wrong info and right info. It is a off and on and you have to catch to see what is right and what is wrong.

Back on the Band Members outfits. Here is an example on what we look for again:

Top photo was taken by Tom Loomis. This photo is from his last concert. We know this because of two reasons. 1.) Elvis is wearing no rings. Elvis didn't wear rings during his last two shows. 2.) Band Members are wearing black.
Image

Now here is a photo taken by Bob Heis:
Image

Now again, from his last show. No rings and band members wearing black. It is a match.

Photos taken by two different people at two different areas.

Your belief that the footage may be Macon. If it is happen to be Macon there is only one way. It may be from the Hilton Hotel in Macon and not the Coliseum. That could be since they filmed at the Hilton. They did have red rooms there and Elvis room I believe was red. I have to ask my friend who was a police officer at the time and escorted him to the Coliseum. The Hilton was about a mile from the Coliseum. That could be possible. But I know it is not Elvis dressing room in the Coliseum at all.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:08 pm

elvislennon wrote: Most photos may say they are from the date given but I have seen some that they are wrong. But that is another story. .


The pix are credited to the newpaper and the photographer. The chances of a newspaper printing a photo from another show (especially in the same outfit) are next to nothing. I have newspaper reviews from maybe 95-96% of the tour shows, and I can find none that have been mislabelled (unless they have obviously used, for example, a 1970 pic for a 1977 review).

elvislennon wrote: Your belief that the footage may be Macon.


Yes, it may very well be. I'm talking about the backstage footage here of course.

elvislennon wrote:San Antonio is complete because of the audio on CD that we have that comes from Elvis On Tour tapes. Now, since we have San Antone on RCA release of Close Up and in stereo we can wonder if RCA was on hand for the other shows as well.


I don't understand. If you're saying Close Up came from the On Tour tapes, why couldn't the other shows - when released on CD - come from there as well? So did Close Up come from RCA or MGM?

I still say Dayton is the hair up stage, and by San Antonio, it was down. And again, I wonder as to why - out of all the newspaper reviews - only four articles (Hampton Roads, Greensboro, San Antonio and Richmond) mention the film cameras. I find it beyond chance that, if cameras were at any of the other shows (eg Jacksonville) that cameras weren't mentioned in the reviews. Same applies to the June 1977 tour.
Last edited by Scott on Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:44 pm

Wasn't there going to be another concert recorded (Knoxville, perhaps?) and they had some kind of mishap and the equipment got fried or something like that? Seems like I've read that before somewhere....

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:45 pm

FrankieRider2 wrote:Wasn't there going to be another concert recorded (Knoxville, perhaps?) and they had some kind of mishap and the equipment got fried or something like that? Seems like I've read that before somewhere....

those crazy chefs :lol: :lol:

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:13 pm

So, if you and others believe the Red Lion on stage footage from On Tour is actually from Detroit, are you saying these reference books are incorrect?


Scott, the red lion footage shown in the movie Elvis On Tour, ie Proud Mary, Never Been to Spain, Intros Burning Love is DEFINITELY from San Antonio - without question.

The backstage footage shown in the same movie, and in the outtakes, I believe is Macon, not San Antonio.

In the youtube linke posted, there is a clip of CC Rider. This footage is a mix of Detroit and San Antonio - you can see the band outfits switch back and forth between pale plue, and black. This is only outtake footage however, I don't believe any detroit footage made it in to Elvis On Tour.

Furthmore, I don't believe there was a full crew, and on stage camera men in Detroit, but more of the handheld footage, or the small stage mounted cameras that we've seen elsewhere. This would be perhaps why the review doesn't mention the crew - might just have been a couple of people.

Does that make sense?

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:14 pm

Scott wrote:
elvislennon wrote: Most photos may say they are from the date given but I have seen some that they are wrong. But that is another story. .


The pix are credited to the newpaper and the photographer. The chances of a newspaper printing a photo from another show (especially in the same outfit) are next to nothing. I have newspaper reviews from maybe 95-96% of the tour shows, and I can find none that have been mislabelled (unless they have obviously used, for example, a 1970 pic for a 1977 review).

elvislennon wrote: Your belief that the footage may be Macon.


Yes, it may very well be. I'm talking about the backstage footage here of course.

elvislennon wrote:San Antonio is complete because of the audio on CD that we have that comes from Elvis On Tour tapes. Now, since we have San Antone on RCA release of Close Up and in stereo we can wonder if RCA was on hand for the other shows as well.


I don't understand. If you're saying Close Up came from the On Tour tapes, why couldn't the other shows - when released on CD - come from there as well? So did Close Up come from RCA or MGM?

I still say Dayton is the hair up stage, and by San Antonio, it was down. And again, I wonder as to why - out of all the newspaper reviews - only four articles (Hampton Roads, Greensboro, San Antonio and Richmond) mention the film cameras. I find it beyond chance that, if cameras were at any of the other shows (eg Jacksonville) that cameras weren't mentioned in the reviews. Same applies to the June 1977 tour.



The San Antone concert on Close Up is not from the Elvis On Tour tapes. For newspapers with photos. I have five right now in front of me that comes from Macon News that tells about Elvis' concert in Atlanta. Question just for you, Did Elvis ever wore the 1974 American eagle in Atlanta?
Right under the photo, it says taken in Atlanta. Or for Macon itself, DId Elvis wore the Gypsy suit in Macon? Under that photo again, taken in Macon,
If he wore these suits at these places how come we see him wearing different suits that are actaully from that concert itself.

I am saying that the footage may not be backstage if it is from Macon. As I have explain earlier that there was no red rooms at the Coliseum during his time. All white. The only red room is in the Centreplex. The Centreplex was added on in the 90s. How can Elvis be in a place that never existed in his time period? If the footage is Macon, it may not be backstage at all. It may be from the lounge area that was next to his room at the Hilton here in Macon. The crew did filmed at the Hilton. That room is red and still is red to this day.

Again, don't go by newspaper reviews that was during the time of Elvis On Tour. There is several reasons why they didn't say about any cameras. They may not have known that any cameras was there. Just because they say no cameras was there doesn't 100% mean that no camera was there. We can't 100% say what was filmed for Elvis On Tour.

For for mislabeled photos, hey I think the photo on Aloha From Hawaii cover is from Detroit but it is labeled as San Antonio. His hair style looks like if it is from Detroit. Can I prove it is from Detroit? No, I can't because Ed says it is from San Antonio and the fans goes by that. But only a handful of photos out of the thousands out there are not mislabeled. The two I provided are from his last show. Why because he wore no rings at his last two shows and between those two shows that was the only time the band wore black. So it is from his last show.

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:20 pm

Kris P wrote:
elvislennon wrote:Now, since we have San Antone on RCA release of Close Up and in stereo we can wonder if RCA was on hand for the other shows as well. Again, that is another story. Some books gives wrong info and right info.


As I mentioned earlier, all available information suggests that the only shows taped (multi track/audio) are Hampton (evening), Richmond (evening), Greensboro (evening) and San Antonio (evening).
These shows were not recorded by RCA but by Record Plant and The Wally Heider Company (San Antonio).


On whose authoritty? RCA or MGM?

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:21 pm

DarrylMac wrote:
So, if you and others believe the Red Lion on stage footage from On Tour is actually from Detroit, are you saying these reference books are incorrect?


Scott, the red lion footage shown in the movie Elvis On Tour, ie Proud Mary, Never Been to Spain, Intros Burning Love is DEFINITELY from San Antonio - without question.

The backstage footage shown in the same movie, and in the outtakes, I believe is Macon, not San Antonio.

In the youtube linke posted, there is a clip of CC Rider. This footage is a mix of Detroit and San Antonio - you can see the band outfits switch back and forth between pale plue, and black. This is only outtake footage however, I don't believe any detroit footage made it in to Elvis On Tour.

Furthmore, I don't believe there was a full crew, and on stage camera men in Detroit, but more of the handheld footage, or the small stage mounted cameras that we've seen elsewhere. This would be perhaps why the review doesn't mention the crew - might just have been a couple of people.

Does that make sense?



Beliefs that no full crew was at Detroit doesn't make it true. You have to provided the proof that no full crew was there. Beliefs doesn't count. Again, newspapers reviews may not say about the cameras because they didn'r realize it. Or if they did they could of thought it was the local TV station.

Also, jsut because that is the only outtakes available doesn't mean that is the only thing from that show. There may be more from that show. The whole show could of been filmed as far as you know. We can't say 100% what was filmed. We can say what show was filmed but we can't say if the whole show was filmed or not. Indianapolis was filmed and made it into Elvis On Tour. What do you say about that?

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:23 pm

epf wrote:
Kris P wrote:
elvislennon wrote:Now, since we have San Antone on RCA release of Close Up and in stereo we can wonder if RCA was on hand for the other shows as well. Again, that is another story. Some books gives wrong info and right info.


As I mentioned earlier, all available information suggests that the only shows taped (multi track/audio) are Hampton (evening), Richmond (evening), Greensboro (evening) and San Antonio (evening).
These shows were not recorded by RCA but by Record Plant and The Wally Heider Company (San Antonio).


On whose authoritty? RCA or MGM?


It would be RCA. RCA has first call on any concerts or studio rehearsals that they want to record on Elvis. They don't have to ask MGM that. All they had to do is bring there own equipment to record. That is how the 1977 shows was done as well. If you notice, CBS sound they had trouble but RCA didn't. Listen to Fairytale from the CBS tapes and then listen to the same song on RCA. RCA sounds a whole lot better, Omaha 1977, I call it the Charlie Hodge show just because the sound trouble that CBS was having..... :lol:

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:30 pm

Joan Deary is on record as saying Felton Jarvis primarily taped vocals for the June 1977 recordings, with a firm plan to overdub the rhythm section and orchestra in Nashville.

These overdubs were done as planned, mere days after Elvis had died. It may well be a reason the backing sounds so sharp.

The "CBS Tapes" are a contemporaneous live mix, as done by the network's camera and audio crew.

-----

As for the fabulous Buffalo show from April 5, 1972, one hopes at least two reasonable sound sources remain:

1) video camera feed

2) soundboard tape

Re: MGM -> April 1972 videotape from "This Is Elvis"

Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:51 am

Your contribution to this topic has been immeasurable.

It is so tiny, no one has bothered to measure it.