Anything about Elvis
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Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:07 am

Little Darlin wrote:Apart from the Music, A Star is Born is about the deep Passionate love between a Man and a Woman, which I don't think Elvis ever had the pleasure of doing, therefore would of found it hard to Portray in the Film. Just imo.


It's Elvis' prowess as an actor we are discussing here.

Just because he was never called upon to act scenes of a deep passionate nature, doesn't mean he couldn't.

I don't believe his acting talent was ever fulfilled or developed to its true potential.

Re: A Star is Born

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:36 am

Vissie wrote:Earlier, he had been holed up in the back room of Dr. Ghanem's house attempting the "sleep diet" where he remain sedated. On December 29, 1974 the Col recognized Elvis was in a deep depression and would not be ready to open in Vegas on January 26th.

Also in January he was hospitalized because he couldn't breathe... Vernon had a heart attack in February. As I said, it's clear to me he was in no condition to star in a movie.

Yet, come March Presley was booked for, and gave, nearly 30 very energetic shows in Las Vegas. Barbra and Jon saw one of those -- they didn't see someone in poor condition.

Then, from April to July, he gave scores of shows all over the US.

BTW, the sleep diet "idea" may date back to 1973.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:53 am

I think the movie, though successful, was far from a classic.
However, i believer it would have given Elvis a new challenge at the time and he should have been allowed to take up that option.
rick

Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:21 am

Vissie wrote:
Axeman wrote:
kelvin wrote:I think that even in 1976 he would have been unable to play this role due to his medication dependency. Could you honestly see Elvis suddenly turning it all around and reporting at 6am every day for shooting and full of energy? Sad to say it but i think not.


Apparently, Kristofferson cleaned up HIS act after this film...maybe it would have done the same for Elvis.

Axe


Really?

I guess it's all in how you define the word "after".

KK admitted to being a drug and alcohol abuser. After the film, he divorced Rita Coolidge (his wife at the time) and attempted to get clean and sober. 5 years later he was still struggling.

In an interview with Roger Ebert:

"Getting high was supposed to be a method of opening the doors of perception for me, and what it was doing was shutting them.... It took me thirty years to admit I had a problem."


Well then perhaps it would have been more accurate of me to say that the film woke Kristofferson up to a degree, and may be at least partly responsible for his survival today.

Axe

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:32 am

The offer came early enough that Elvis could have turned things around. Remember the decline of '76 occurred after this deal was turned down. Virtually every time in his career, Elvis had been challenged he had responded. He finally came up short on EIC but that was two years after this.

However, it's unlikely that the film would have successfully revived Elvis' film career. A) It was not a good or a critically well received film B) This story belongs to the female actor C) Most importantly this was a Streisand vanity project without a first class director. Therefore if Elvis was going to be good in it, he would have had to have done it completely on his own. If this project, had say Scorsese attached to it, Elvis might have found his way but with indiscriminate Streisand approved hack it was would have been a lot tougher.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:54 am

likethebike wrote:The offer came early enough that Elvis could have turned things around. Remember the decline of '76 occurred after this deal was turned down. Virtually every time in his career, Elvis had been challenged he had responded. He finally came up short on EIC but that was two years after this.

However, it's unlikely that the film would have successfully revived Elvis' film career. A) It was not a good or a critically well received film B) This story belongs to the female actor C) Most importantly this was a Streisand vanity project without a first class director. Therefore if Elvis was going to be good in it, he would have had to have done it completely on his own. If this project, had say Scorsese attached to it, Elvis might have found his way but with indiscriminate Streisand approved hack it was would have been a lot tougher.



I would like to add an "D" to this...

D) He was not an good enough actor.

He could have been, perhaps, with the right training, but that was not the case.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:05 am

Sure he did. The training was in those 13 years between 1956 and 1969. All he needed was a great director and a part to harness it. Plus, this part was a dramatic part but it wasn’t Hamlet.

I think there is a tendency to over-mystify the acting process especially when applying it to a singer who acts in one respect or another on every song he or she sings. Many great actors learned the craft simply by working on the screen and choosing good parts and good directors. You don’t have to spend years at the actor’s studio to obtain competency in the craft. Burt Lancaster for instance was a circus performer before he started his movie career. In his early days, he often got by on presence but later on he developed into a first rate actor giving many fine performances in “Elmer Gantry”, “The Swimmer”, “Sweet Smell of Success”, “Birdman of Alcatraz” and “Atlantic City” among many others.

What training did Elvis have in singing? Virtually none, a few tips here and there and lots of practice. I’m not saying it’s not good to have a background. What separated Dean from Brando was Brando’s technical proficiency. I don’t think it’s absolutely essential.

A lot of acting comes from directors. A great director can get good to great work out of the most unpolished and untrained performers. Get Elvis with Elia Kazan and look out. On “A Star is Born” though he would not have been working with a great actor’s director.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:28 pm

likethebike wrote:Sure he did. The training was in those 13 years between 1956 and 1969. All he needed was a great director and a part to harness it. Plus, this part was a dramatic part but it wasn’t Hamlet.

I think there is a tendency to over-mystify the acting process especially when applying it to a singer who acts in one respect or another on every song he or she sings. Many great actors learned the craft simply by working on the screen and choosing good parts and good directors. You don’t have to spend years at the actor’s studio to obtain competency in the craft. Burt Lancaster for instance was a circus performer before he started his movie career. In his early days, he often got by on presence but later on he developed into a first rate actor giving many fine performances in “Elmer Gantry”, “The Swimmer”, “Sweet Smell of Success”, “Birdman of Alcatraz” and “Atlantic City” among many others.

What training did Elvis have in singing? Virtually none, a few tips here and there and lots of practice. I’m not saying it’s not good to have a background. What separated Dean from Brando was Brando’s technical proficiency. I don’t think it’s absolutely essential.

A lot of acting comes from directors. A great director can get good to great work out of the most unpolished and untrained performers. Get Elvis with Elia Kazan and look out. On “A Star is Born” though he would not have been working with a great actor’s director.



Of course he didn´t need singing lessons. That he could do.
The 13 years of training was, IMO, not a very good training for the most of the time. Movies made during a very short time, some times just a few weeks of shooting. Almost none of the directors had the guts to ask him to do a sceen over and over again to get it right. He didn´t have to do his best. So not much of a training there. At least nothing that he could benefit from.

How many "serious" film movie offers did he get? How many of the "moviepeople" consider him to be a "great actor"?

He did a few movies where his acting was ok, but no great ones, IMO.
Still, it is fun to watch the movies he made from time to time.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:46 pm

Scarre wrote

Still, it is fun to watch the movies he made from time to time.


Yes I agree. It's a pity they saved one of the best (imo) till last.. Change of Habit. It had a great storyline and Elvis was comfortable with the role too, it would have been interesting to hear if Elvis got any more offers for Films just from that Film alone.

Thanks for the replies, some good reading there.

Re: A Star is Born

Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:39 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:BTW, the sleep diet "idea" may date back to 1973.


Radical sleep diet = October, 1974 (after the extended dates in Lake Tahoe)

Re: A Star is Born

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:18 pm

Vissie wrote:Radical sleep diet = October, 1974 (after the extended dates in Lake Tahoe)

Source?

Re: A Star is Born

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:47 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Vissie wrote:Radical sleep diet = October, 1974 (after the extended dates in Lake Tahoe)

Source?


Glad you asked good doctor ;)

My bad.. I mis-typed. Should be...

Radical sleep diet = December, 1972. (pg. 480, Guralnick). Plus, Sonny talks about it in "Elvis, What Happened?"

(I was reading a different passage in regards to something else and incorrectly put it into my post).

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:52 pm

Thanks. My instincts told me the idea had an earlier incarnation.

Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:00 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Thanks. My instincts told me the idea had an earlier incarnation.


And you were quite right! Again, good catch doctor ;)

Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:21 am

I also tend to believe that the challenge could straighten Elvis out. He had that enthusiasm that was stronger than everything. Nixon, comeback, the horses, Aloha...

Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:29 am

Vissie wrote:And you were quite right! Again, good catch doctor ;)

I do what I can!

While I'm at it, your awesome avatar is a reverse-image. Can you flip it?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:30 am

Narek wrote:I also tend to believe that the challenge could straighten Elvis out. He had that enthusiasm that was stronger than everything. Nixon, comeback, the horses, Aloha...

The horses?

Re: To Vissie

Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:12 am

[quote="Vissie"][quote="Gallivant1234"]Hi Vissie, I said a "newcomer to the film and and music industry in general". I perhaps should have used "throughout the world", in lieu of "in general", but the unvarnishewd truth is that what the the producers wanted, what Streisand needed, was a worldwide hit, which it was.

I remember seeing the film overseas and I having to to explain who KK was, to friend and foe alike. Nine movies, none in which he starred, two gold records, and writing 20 hits for others, even in 1975, did not make you a household name worldwide.

In fact, he got the worldwide recognition from ASIB.[/quote]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this ;)

KK starred in (top billing, main central character) in the following films [i]prior[/i] to A Star Is Born...

Cisco Pike (not only did he star, he had the title role)
Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (he starred as Billy the Kid, again, a title role)
The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea (male lead)
Vigilante Force (male lead)

Movies made during the 70s were hopeful that they would reach an overseas audience but that wasn't their initial target audience.[/quote]

Hi again!! The movies in which Streisand had already had a lead part, prior to "A star is born" were Funny Lady (1975), For Pete's Sake (1974), The Way We Were (1973), Up the Sandbox and What's Up, Doc? (both 1972), and finally, The Owl and the Pussycat and On a Clear Day You Can See Forever (both in 1970, her first two). As you can imagine, by this time, she was already used to tasting the sweet smell of having a worldwide blockbuster so it would be extremely logical for her to aim at a worldwide blockbuster in her first outing at executive prodiucer. And that's why she tried to recruit Elvis...

Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:10 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Vissie wrote:And you were quite right! Again, good catch doctor ;)

I do what I can!

While I'm at it, your awesome avatar is a reverse-image. Can you flip it?


Actually, I'd rather not ;) I'm the one that flipped it this way as I prefer to "talk" in front of Elvis rather than behind his back (if you catch what I'm saying) ;)

Re: To Vissie

Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:35 am

Gallivant1234 wrote:Hi again!! The movies in which Streisand had already had a lead part, prior to "A star is born" were Funny Lady (1975), For Pete's Sake (1974), The Way We Were (1973), Up the Sandbox and What's Up, Doc? (both 1972), and finally, The Owl and the Pussycat and On a Clear Day You Can See Forever (both in 1970, her first two). As you can imagine, by this time, she was already used to tasting the sweet smell of having a worldwide blockbuster so it would be extremely logical for her to aim at a worldwide blockbuster in her first outing at executive prodiucer. And that's why she tried to recruit Elvis...


We'll just have to agree to disagree ;)

Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:27 am

The Colonel wanted Elvis as the star with Barbara Streisand 2nd.
Elvis could have made this film if the Colonel wasn't so fussy with stardom.

Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:46 pm

A link that mentions the Film.

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/rge_astaristorm.shtml
Last edited by Little Darlin on Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:49 pm

Gallivant 1234

Hi again!! The movies in which Streisand had already had a lead part, prior to "A star is born" were Funny Lady (1975), For Pete's Sake (1974), The Way We Were (1973), Up the Sandbox and What's Up, Doc? (both 1972), and finally, The Owl and the Pussycat and On a Clear Day You Can See Forever (both in 1970, her first two). As you can imagine, by this time, she was already used to tasting the sweet smell of having a worldwide blockbuster so it would be extremely logical for her to aim at a worldwide blockbuster in her first outing at executive prodiucer. And that's why she tried to recruit Elvis...
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Thanks for the information. Barbra's a bit of a Heroine of mine and to think of her and Elvis in the same Film would have been a delight :wink:

Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:02 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Narek wrote:I also tend to believe that the challenge could straighten Elvis out. He had that enthusiasm that was stronger than everything. Nixon, comeback, the horses, Aloha...

The horses?


When he bought horses, tractors, equipment for all the MM.