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KiwiAlan
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Money, Money, Money

#329769

Post by KiwiAlan »

Does anyone else feel it's strange that:-

A three set, comprehensive restored, expensive packaging DVD with huge problems with performing rights like the Ed Sullivan set can sell for almost half the cost of:-

A single CD with no exceptioal restoration in the cheapest possible case...as in Unchained Melody :?:

Makes one wonder who the biggest suckers are..the General Public or Serious Collectors :D


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elvissessions
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#329772

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#329825

Post by KiwiAlan »

This has little to do with economies of scale.

The UK label ACE regularily puts out lavish CD's with a smaller sales volumes with FTD. That is less than 10,000.


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Re: Money, Money, Money

#329829

Post by deadringer »

KiwiAlan wrote:Does anyone else feel it's strange that:-

A three set, comprehensive restored, expensive packaging DVD with huge problems with performing rights like the Ed Sullivan set can sell for almost half the cost of:-

A single CD with no exceptioal restoration in the cheapest possible case...as in Unchained Melody :?:

Makes one wonder who the biggest suckers are..the General Public or Serious Collectors :D
A three set, comprehensive restored, expensive packaging DVD with huge problems with performing rights like the Ed Sullivan set can sell for almost half the cost of:-

- yes... the 3 DVD set where is 80 % of s..t that NOBODY, and I say it again, NOBODY will watch 2nd time - because it is nearly 60 years old s...t. - we have enoug of new s...t in TV shows nowadays :-)

But technically I agreee. This 3 DVD set was restored to really fantastic result. Both sound and picture is just great. But I will call it "wasted days, wasted nights". Too much of padding and too little of Elvis.

Anyway - I agree that also "less interesting" FTD stuff deserve proper sound restoration, not usual Lene Reidel awful treatment (sorry, lady). Ernst, are you online? This is an offer :-).



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#329831

Post by drjohncarpenter »

It doesn't seem strange at all, for reasons already referenced.


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#329833

Post by elvissessions »

with a smaller sales volumes with FTD
arguably true on a few releases -- perhaps-- but demonstrably false for a number of others.




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#329874

Post by likethebike »

You can't tell me that a Jesse Belvin two cd set sells more copies than an Elvis collection. FTD has kind of always scammed a bit on the scale/small volume business as it is the most expensive label of its kind. Collector's Choice releases don't sell for what FTDs sell for. They're often expensive but not that expensive.

Still though value for money is kind of devastating to the CD industry in general. I bought a Paul Simon release recently, about 40 minutes of music- $15. For $5 more an entire season of Cheers about 12 hours.



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#329886

Post by elvissessions »

There's almost no way for us to do an A-B sales comparison on every release. (Though I do feel pretty comfortable in saying that Ace's Golden Age of American Rock 'n' Roll has sold a heck of a lot more copies than Easter Special or the expanded Harum Scarum, for example.)

However, there is a way to confirm the relative size of the production runs.

I can go into a Barnes and Noble, a Tower, a Borders or a Virgin store and find Ace releases. I feel comfortable in saying this because I've done so a number of times, including, yes, Jesse Belvin.

I even bought a couple of Ace discs in a Hastings store in a little town called Hutchinson, Kansas, that I lived in for a couple of years.

If they're stocking these discs in the small towns of the Midwest, they're stocking them in hundreds of stores in the United States.

However, I have yet to see a single FTD disc in any U.S. store, except the Graceland shops. (Yes, I know a few others have reported occasional sightings.)

I know FTDs may be a little more common in Europe, but when it comes down to it these are extremely limited-access products, compared with Ace or most other boutique labels.



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#329920

Post by KiwiAlan »

You are a little deprived in the USA then :D

One quarter of the Wellington record stoes carry FTD...and the don't carry all the ACE releases :!:

If FTD was available as legal downloads then the excuse for high prices would evaporate :D


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#329937

Post by Keith Richards, Jr. »

In the beginning, FTD releases were sold exclusively to fanclubs, magazines and other Elvis dealers. If the CDs popped up at Amazon for instance, it's because some of these dealers sold their FTDs to them; Amazon did not order the CDs directly from FTD. That's why FTD releases were ultra-expensive if you didn't buy them from proper dealers like Now Dig This.

Is this still the case or are FTDs being sold directly to "normal" stores and dealers now?

I don't know because I've (almost) always used the same ol' dealer


************

Mr. Kiwi, I doubt most Elvis fans would be interested in FTD downloads. Most of us are collectors who want the real thing, and the general public is not supposed to hear the releases anyway! :wink:

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#329938

Post by DarrylMac »

I'm in the UK, and here, the DVD set sells for between £17.99, and £19.99, whereby I can order my FTD's for £14.99, with free postage, from Essential Elvis.

I don't for one minute begrudge a penny I've paid for any of the FTD's, and am glad we have them.

The DVD set is on my list, and I'm looking forward to watching it.



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#329945

Post by KiwiAlan »

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:

Mr. Kiwi, I doubt most Elvis fans would be interested in FTD downloads. Most of us are collectors who want the real thing, and the general public is not supposed to hear the releases anyway! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.
The real thing? I have I have many legal downloads at 256 or 320KB that I would defy anyone to notice any quality drop from a CD.

Instead of letting FTD product disappear as time goes on I would urge FTD to make them available, as downloads, at a suitable cost.


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#329948

Post by Keith Richards, Jr. »

KiwiAlan wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:

Mr. Kiwi, I doubt most Elvis fans would be interested in FTD downloads. Most of us are collectors who want the real thing, and the general public is not supposed to hear the releases anyway! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.
The real thing? I have I have many legal downloads at 256 or 320KB that I would defy anyone to notice any quality drop from a CD.
Yeah, I'm sure the sound quality is acceptable. When I said the real thing, I was thinking of the CD itself. I can't speak for other people but I personally prefer to have my music on vinyl or CD, not on my computer. And I am fan of nice artwork. I'm old school! And I think most other FECC members and FTD fans are old school, too.

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Matthew

#329954

Post by Matthew »

Purchasing Elvis' material as mp3 downloads, hmmmm, out of all the artists in my collection Elvis is the only one that I would insist on having packaging to go with the music. I don't really download music anyway and besides, if your computer crashes then you would loose all that music unless you had backed it up onto CDs so meh, I'd rather FTDs stay as a CD format.




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#329956

Post by likethebike »

So many of Ace's releases though are niche releases. The Collector's Choice model is 5000 to 7000 units which is about the same as FTD.

I don't have a problem with FTD costing more than a regular release because of a smaller scale. I have a problem with them costing that much more. They are higher than virtually every other specialty label that there is. In the instances where the prices are comparable you're almost always getting two cds from the other labels.

I really believe though industry wide the value for money concept is one of the things that has hurt the music industry because in comparison to video, audio costs a lot. If you're a consumer and you have your disposable dollar, you're naturally inclined to move towards the better deal which for the past five years or so has been DVD.



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#329966

Post by KiwiAlan »

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:

Mr. Kiwi, I doubt most Elvis fans would be interested in FTD downloads. Most of us are collectors who want the real thing, and the general public is not supposed to hear the releases anyway! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.
The real thing? I have I have many legal downloads at 256 or 320KB that I would defy anyone to notice any quality drop from a CD.
Yeah, I'm sure the sound quality is acceptable. When I said the real thing, I was thinking of the CD itself. I can't speak for other people but I personally prefer to have my music on vinyl or CD, not on my computer. And I am fan of nice artwork. I'm old school! And I think most other FECC members and FTD fans are old school, too.

Ain't it great God invented burners :D

Keith Richards, Jr.


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#329969

Post by Keith Richards, Jr. »

KiwiAlan wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:
Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:

Mr. Kiwi, I doubt most Elvis fans would be interested in FTD downloads. Most of us are collectors who want the real thing, and the general public is not supposed to hear the releases anyway! :wink:

Keith Richards, Jr.
The real thing? I have I have many legal downloads at 256 or 320KB that I would defy anyone to notice any quality drop from a CD.
Yeah, I'm sure the sound quality is acceptable. When I said the real thing, I was thinking of the CD itself. I can't speak for other people but I personally prefer to have my music on vinyl or CD, not on my computer. And I am fan of nice artwork. I'm old school! And I think most other FECC members and FTD fans are old school, too.

Keith Richards, Jr.
Ain't it great God invented burners :D
I'm sorry, but I can't stand CD-R's either! :wink: It just ain't the same. There is a cheap feeling to CD-R's and there is no artwork, no liner notes, no nothing. Yes, I know you can print your own cover, but again, it just ain't the same. It looks and feels cheap.

Keith Richards, Jr.


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#329971

Post by KiwiAlan »

I am talking about FTD material which has been DELETED!!!!

I would rather download than be unable to buy a DELETED CD.


A home made CDR may look "cheap" while in some cases sounding better, due to error correction from the original CD....that's it's virtue...it's a lot cheaper on your pocket :D


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#329976

Post by LesterB »

Going off on a tangent - the Ed Sullivan 3 DVD set has to be the Elvis bargain of a lifetime of collecting.

Who would have believed that you could buy this so cheap and have it in better quality than the kinescopes!!!


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1 disc set

#330022

Post by TONY »

Ed Sullivan shows - I am looking forward to the 1 disc re-issue with 21 seconds of "newly discovered" footage that wasn't available to them 3 months ago!!??

Regarding FTD's - they are all likely to be delted at some point in the next few years; the answer surely is to buy each one as soon as possible after it's release?!



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Re: Money, Money, Money

#330024

Post by ChrisM »

KiwiAlan wrote:A three set, comprehensive restored, expensive packaging DVD with huge problems with performing rights like the Ed Sullivan set can sell for almost half the cost of:-

A single CD with no exceptioal restoration in the cheapest possible case...as in Unchained Melody :?:
You have either a very cheap DVD supplier or a very expensive CD supplier. Neither is the problem of FTD, so what is your point?

Chris



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#330032

Post by KiwiAlan »

The point is that generally speaking DVD's are cheaper than CD's when one would have thought that the former would be more expensive to produce.

FTD are in control of their own pricing surely.

Remember Ernst saying in the beginning years "what's the problem...we are at the same price as aregular CD release" (or words to that effect). Well general CD prices have dropped sustantially but FTD hasn't moved a cent.


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#330034

Post by ChrisM »

KiwiAlan wrote:FTD are in control of their own pricing surely.
Absolutely not. FTD set the wholesale price. They have no control whatsoever of the retail price.

It might help this discussion if you told us what you were actually paying for your FTDs. I suspect your problem is a failure to look around for the best deal.

You also need to grasp the concept that manufacturing cost per unit is not the only thing that determines retail price. It is mostly about supply and demand.

Chris



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#330086

Post by drjohncarpenter »

TONY wrote:Ed Sullivan shows - I am looking forward to the 1 disc re-issue with 21 seconds of "newly discovered" footage that wasn't available to them 3 months ago!!??
Given that all of Elvis' performances are complete, and the 2006 DVD release one of the greatest items ever issued for the Elvis fan, this comment only lets us know you're a real sourpuss.
TONY wrote:Regarding FTD's - they are all likely to be delted at some point in the next few years ...
That policy changed several years ago -- only non-sellers will leave the catalogue. And if one is due for deletion, said announcement will provide ample time to buy a copy.

Have a happy, TONY.


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Matthew

#330094

Post by Matthew »

FTDs have NEVER been at the same retail bracket of other CDs, not in the UK at least. New they have always been £15-16, and this remains unchanged. If they are wholesaling out at the same price level (as Ernst has implied in the past) as other new release CDs then it begs the question just how much margin is being added to the top end by the retailers? Because if they are indeed being wholesaled out at the same price point then the production run, supply and demand argument goes out the door for the premium price level.

It is also interesting to remember that the Classic Album FTDs are almost always 2CD sets in deluxe packaging with booklets at the same price point as the regular FTDs. This does beg the question as to why the regular releases, which aren't in deluxe packaging, are single disc, and feature no booklet can’t be cheaper.

Now I don’t expect FTDs will go down in price and one should also remember the glory days of the 90s import market where discs were almost always £18-20 for a single disc and £25-30 for a double disc. We certainly have it better now.

As to CD-R copies of FTDs, this practise should only be done by those who already own the original and don't wish to use it. NO ONE should be obtaining FTD albums through CD-R trading, it only hurts FTD and puts its future in jeopardy. Unfortunately from time spent on this forum it is evident it happens even here, which is a crying shame.


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