Anything about Elvis
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Thompson & Cole's ..............

Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:05 am

"The Death of Elvis" is an essential read. As has already been stated, it isn't perfect - no book is. Labelling this book as merely a "curiosity" displays a rather shallow understanding of the implications that this book puts forth (the only one of its kind ever published).

Then again, anybody impressed with Priscilla's "Elvis and Me" would not surprisingly find the Thompson & Cole book a bit more difficult to digest / process intellectually. (Priscilla also stated that she fully expected her book to be the definitive book to crown the story of Elvis; obviously, she was way off base .................... ).

It never ceases to amaze me, indeed.


N8
... just a fan ....

Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:16 am

BINGO!

Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:34 pm

drjohncrapenter wrote:
Graceland Galonker wrote:Another thing, is the extent of info on four 1955 events commonly considered lost and forgotten:

Arthur Godfrey TV Auditon [ sic ]
The Jimmie Rodgers [ sic ] Memorial Concert/Broadcast
Pied Piper of Cleveland film
Nashville Disc Jockey Convention.

IMO, Webster succeeded where Guralnick failed to cover those events in as much detail.


This makes no sense whatsoever.

Webster's recent book has been thoroughly dismissed as being chock full of spurious information. Guralinick's 1994 biography has won national and international recognition.

And of the above four "lost" examples, only ONE was definitely filmed and recorded: the October 1955 Cleveland concerts, aka "The Pied Piper Of Cleveland."

Say good night, Gracie.



Wake up, Suzie.

"Dismissed" by whom? You? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You Dr. Crapenter are not the Alpha-Omega of All Things Elvis.

Sat Jul 05, 2003 8:29 pm

Then read the damn thing. No insight into the music. No use for this book. End of story.

Priscilla's book contains valuable anecdotes. Only a fool would not consider it important reading. It doesn't matter if she herself has any real insights. She was there.

And let's not get all high and mighty about your so-called Elvis knowledge. You don't have some sort of monopoly on insight about the king. I read the same books you read and so did probably everyone else on this board. So get off it.

Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:22 pm

Promocollector wrote:What about ' The Illustrated Record ' - Roy Carr & Mick Farren, i find this very informative and a must for vinyl fans(all fans).Promocollector


I’ve always liked Carr and Farren’s “Illustrated Record”, and I think the book is still well worth buying in the CD age, because it provides a great reference for how the music was originally issued. Many titles have changed considerably since the days of their first vinyl release, and this alone makes the book worthwhile.

The writer’s also review each album, and personally I always found their reviews to be pretty fair. This type of information is always valuable to any new fans that are wondering which album titles to buy out of the hundreds that are available.

Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:45 am

likethebike wrote:Then read the damn thing. No insight into the music. No use for this book. End of story.


You honestly still don't get it, do you?

likethebike wrote:Priscilla's book contains valuable anecdotes. Only a fool would not consider it important reading. It doesn't matter if she herself has any real insights. She was there.


Do you realize what you are saying? (Hint: notice the bold blue sentences in the quote above).

likethebike wrote:And let's not get all high and mighty about your so-called Elvis knowledge. You don't have some sort of monopoly on insight about the king. I read the same books you read and so did probably everyone else on this board. So get off it.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, unfortunately (you can choose to intrepret that anyway you want).


N8
... just a fan ....

Sun Jul 06, 2003 10:45 am

Seriously I don't get it. What could possibly be interesting about the way that Elvis died once you get past the essential details? He lived a self-destructive lifestyle and died too young partially due to obesity and an unhealthy addiction to prescription drugs. What can be learned about his artistry, his instincts from an examination of the drugs that were in his body when he died? That there was a cover up is also not important. It's an embarrassing way to die and Elvis was a prominent person. Did anybody expect them to scream from the mountaintops "Yes the bodyguards were right. He's a junkie"?

Elvis the artist is endlessly fascinating to me. The person behind that art is also interesting but slightly less so. The icon and cultural hero also grab my interest. Elvis the corpse does not interest me in the slightest.

In defense of the Priscilla book, I don't see how you can say there weren't some solid anecdotes in there that revealed a lot about Elvis. I haven't read the book since it came out but several stories have stayed with me. The book burning, Elvis' rage at "GI Blues", the Ricky Nelson comment, Elvis' infatuation with Valentino, the idea of remaking the obscure movie "The Way of the Flesh" with Vernon in the lead, Elvis' decision not to attend Priscilla's graduation because he feared taking away the spotlight from the kids. All of those are little things but they give you a glimpse of some of what Elvis was about.

When you're dealing in biography a book does not have to be well written or especially insightful to have a utilitarian value. And why do you complain about this book and let bodyguard books pass without comment.

Also, Dr. Carpenter instead of some silly quip how about defending your arguments?

Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:42 am

Elvis the corpse does not interest me in the slightest.



Amen to that.

Give me books/documentaries/presentations where Elvis does not drop dead on the bathroom floor for the big finale. In other words, don't focus on '70s/'77 Elvis. It's too damned depressing and shameful and sad and pathetic.

That's why Guralnick's 1st book, and the book by Webster, and the book by Oberst, and those by Ger Rijff are fun and enjoyable to read: Elvis is not portrayed as an addict or an @sshole or a corpse being sliced open for autopsy.

Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:45 am

likethebike wrote: ......... He lived a self-destructive lifestyle and died too young partially due to obesity and an unhealthy addiction to prescription drugs.


Correct, and in my view, only Elvis himself is to blame. Too often, others are quick to blame everyone else to varying degrees.

likethebike wrote: ............ What can be learned about his artistry, his instincts from an examination of the drugs that were in his body when he died?


The part in the Thompson & Cole book about holding Elvis' vocal cords in their hands was, however gruesome, ..................... quite a statement about the "man's" artistry and what it all comes down to - flesh and blood (in Elvis' own words).

There is also a lesson to be learned in the consequences of unprecedented fame & superstardom and the adverse side-effects (no pun intended) that they have on a human being. The book deals with the physical, ............. which stems from the "psychological." Any way you choose to slice it, it comes back to the The Man, his Music, his Artistry, ...... and his LIFE on all levels.

The brutal truth in the contents of the book undoubtedly does not sit well with some, but it is the truth - the reality.

likethebike wrote: ........... That there was a cover up is also not important.


We are indeed not even on the same wavelength. This is, simply, a ludicrous statement.

likethebike wrote: .......... It's an embarrassing way to die and Elvis was a prominent person.


I guess we all should just pretend it didn't happen that way, then.

likethebike wrote: ......... "Yes the bodyguards were right. He's a junkie"?


Elvis would have survived the infamous "bodyguard" book, had he chosen to face up to his problems and change his life. He didn't, and the "bodyguards" were right.

likethebike wrote: ....... Elvis the artist is endlessly fascinating to me. The person behind that art is also interesting but slightly less so. The icon and cultural hero also grab my interest. Elvis the corpse does not interest me in the slightest.


The person behind the art IS the art. The "icon" and "cultural hero" are part of the "MYTH" .......... the person is the "REALITY."


likethebike wrote: ........ In defense of the Priscilla book, I don't see how you can say there weren't some solid anecdotes in there that revealed a lot about Elvis. ........ All of those are little things but they give you a glimpse of some of what Elvis was about.


All books, hopefully, will offer some "glimpse" of what Elvis was about.

likethebike wrote: ....... When you're dealing in biography a book does not have to be well written or especially insightful to have a utilitarian value.


The topic of this particular THREAD is entitled "Essential (Elvis) Books", ................ "The Death of Elvis" is .................. sadly, Priscilla's isn't.

likethebike wrote: ........ Why do you complain about this book and let bodyguard books pass without comment.


I had no reason to comment about the "bodyguard" book until you just now brought it up. Now that you mention it, I would also add it to the list of "Essential" books (in terms of the unfortunate role it played in Elvis' life).


N8
... just a fan ....

Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:56 pm

Graceland Gardener wrote:Give me books/documentaries/presentations where Elvis does not drop dead on the bathroom floor for the big finale. In other words, don't focus on '70s/'77 Elvis. It's too damned depressing and shameful and sad and pathetic.


GG - For me, the 70's Elvis is my favorite era; for it is also when I became a fan. The 70's Elvis is ingrained into my memory in a very personal way, one that cannot be erased as long as I am a fan.

Ignoring something does not make it go away. In fact, there is a word for it - it's called, "denial." How ironic, this was exactly the same problem that Elvis had.

Lot's of lessons to be learned from the study of Elvis' life - good & bad.


N8
... just a fan ....

Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:26 pm

N880EP wrote:
likethebike wrote: ............ What can be learned about his artistry, his instincts from an examination of the drugs that were in his body when he died?


The part in the Thompson & Cole book about holding Elvis' vocal cords in their hands was, however gruesome, ..................... quite a statement about the "man's" artistry and what it all comes down to - flesh and blood (in Elvis' own words).

There is also a lesson to be learned in the consequences of unprecedented fame & superstardom and the adverse side-effects (no pun intended) that they have on a human being. The book deals with the physical, ............. which stems from the "psychological." Any way you choose to slice it, it comes back to the The Man, his Music, his Artistry, ...... and his LIFE on all levels.

The brutal truth in the contents of the book undoubtedly does not sit well with some, but it is the truth - the reality.


N8
... just a fan ....




Hi N8

The name of this book has come up once or twice before on the messageboard, I must admit I'd never heard of it beforehand. The discussion on this thread is an interesting one. Would it be possible to post a brief (or as detailed as you want to make it) overview or synopsis of the contents, findings and implications of this book.

Thanks in advance.

Essential Books

Mon Jul 07, 2003 1:06 am

For my money, these are the books I can't do without. They are in no particualr order.
1. Elvis What Happened? Yes it was sensationalistic, yes it took liberties from time to time. However, we found out for the first time what a lot of us without blinders had long suspected: Elvis was in serious trouble.
2. The Death of Elvis. If this didn't convince you that Elvis isn't still alive then nothing will. Also, it showed that there was indeed a conspiracy to keep the facts secret.
3. Last Train to Memphis and Careless Love. IMO, the best and worst of Elvis the man. Good compliment to What Happened.
4. Elvis, The Illustrated Record. Two serious Elvis fans tell it like it was. Especially great is they take you inside the studio. Best anecdote: While recording some gospel songs they started playing every Chuck Berry song they knew and decided not to stop.
5. Jailhouse Rock. Outdated but still the best book about Elvis bootlegs out there. They also obviously hate Paul Lichter and this is a plus.
6. Elvis His Life from A to Z. Despite the inaccurasies, almost everything you want to know about Elvis. Plus, they were kind enough to mention me in the acknowledgements.
7. Elvis Day to Day. Perfect companion to A to Z.
8. Elvis and Elvis The Final Years by Jerry Hopkins. Keep in mind that Jim Morrison asked Jerry to do the first book.
9. Reconsider Baby. Schoraly book about the sessions. Updated Earnst Jorgensen book. Got my copy for 10 bucks. How much was yours>
10. ANYTHING by Sean Shaver. Except for "Photographing the King." That one sucks. Even Sean will tell you that.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:14 am

EIN has just published a list of 20 of the Top 40 Elvis Books of All-Time as judged by the bibliographic source: Elvis In Print: The Definitive Reference and Price Guide. List can be found at: http://www.elvis.com.au

Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:14 am

Clint -

The Thompson & Cole book is the only book ever published about Elvis discussing in great detail the events surrounding, leading up to, and most of all, following August 16, 1977.

It also deals with the medical & legal ramifications that stem from the cover-up of the actual causes of Elvis' death. It discusses the evidence and process of the cover-up from the top, down.............from the very top echelons of the Memphis community to the lowest rung of the MMM ladder. There is also much discussion about Dr. Nick (one tidbit is that Dr. Nick was almost shot at a sports event in Memphis .......... supposedly from a deranged Elvis fan .......... upon learing that the shooter missed his mark, Vernon Presley remarked, ....... "They shot the wrong Doctor.") There are other small bits of info. (kernels of truth, if you will) that many fans do not know, ignore, or don't want to face ......... like: Elvis had another girlfriend lined up to go on tour with him (A. Kerwin, a local area bank teller who may have been the next in line to replace Alden) and what was spotted on the scene by the Shelby County Medical Investigator (an empty syringe dispenser, empty pill bottles, empty "Doctor's" bag, completely sanitized bathroom / bedroom, and other things).

The book also proposes various theories to explain Elvis' death. Theorizing is all that is possible, but the theories are based in sound and plausible scientific judgements (no leaps of faith, no BS).

Much of the book is an in-depth discussion of the findings first uncovered in the 20/20 investigations the first year to two years following Elvis death. There are small errors in the book (keep in mind, no book is perfect), but overall it is an excellent resource and recommended read.

The book is easily found on the second-hand market and is very affordable. I recommend it as an "essential" read.


N8
... just a fan ....

Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:23 am

In my 33 years, I have never heard such a load of horse manure. It tells us something about the devastating effects of fame. Right. How does it make different than any other person that was on drugs? Everybody's on them for some reason. The person in the book could be any dead celebrity. If you want to know because your nosy that's ok but don't pretend it's some sort of great statement on his art. The self-importance of some users on this board never fails to amuse me. And you can read that anyway you want.

The vocal chord thing is a real reach.

As for the coverup, it was unveiled 10 years before. There was nothing sinister about it. God, forbid someone try to protect Elvis' reputation. It was uncovered. Oh boy.

The person is most definitely not the art. But you have never heard of separating the art from the artist.
Last edited by likethebike on Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:26 am

I Don't fine this book Elvis Presley: A Life in Music - Jorgensen
is all that great of a book he didn't give you all the fact's on elvis music

he drops lot from his moves and his music from the 70's
just small ted bits and pieces, and he even never tell about

all the overdubbs either so to me this book is wast of money to me.

and he never even give us a full concert list that was recorded by rca.
so to me and imo this is a poor book.

curtis simpkins
Last edited by CURTIS SIMPKINS on Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:03 am

likethebike wrote: ............ I have never heard such a load of horse manure.


Your "opinion", to which you are by all means entitled to. I'm as equally amazed at the sheer amount of incoherent thoughts that sprout from your posts.

likethebike wrote: ..... It tells us something about the devastating effects of fame. Right. How does it make different than any other person that was on drugs? Everybody's on them for some reason. The person in the book could be any dead celebrity. If you want to know because your nosy that's ok but don't pretend it's some sort of great statement on his art..


Gross oversimplification of the issue (not surprising, though, coming from you).

likethebike wrote: .... The self-importance of some users on this board never fails to amuse me. And you can read that anyway you want..


Just pointing out the truth. The fact that you view it as "self-importance" speaks about your own insecurities; that's how I read it.

likethebike wrote: ..... The vocal chord thing is a real reach..


Yes, a "reach" for you, given your obvious limited capacity to process thought on anything other than a very superficial layer. I knew that one would go over your head. :wink:

likethebike wrote: ..... As for the coverup, it was unveiled 10 years before. There was nothing sinister about it. God, forbid someone try to protect Elvis' reputation. It was uncovered. Oh boy. .


Yes it was "unveiled" first by 20/20. Another sign that you are not processing what you are reading not only on this thread, but in the very book that you claim to have "digested": the Thompson & Cole book stems from the 20/20 investigations.

likethebike wrote: .... The person is most definitely not the art. But you have never heard of separating the art from the artist.


I've heard of it, but IMO, it isn't possible. Granted, I'm looking beyond the superficial to the reality .......... something of which you are not yet capable of.


N8
... just a fan ....

Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:42 am

DerekGillies wrote:I think Elvis - A Radio History From 1945 to 1955, by Aaron Webster, is a nice supplement to Last Train To Memphis. It gives a lot of extra little details and background to these formative years.

Derek


same here derek

the book radio history from 45 to 55 is a great book, i know this guy aaron and he is a good friend of mine and seen him work in this for a long time on it, and the doc has never ever read this good book either and he need's to take time to read it.

i dont believe in review's at all of any kind i like to judge myself
if its good or not. imo.

curtis simpkins

Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:14 am

Curtis,

Where do you get those "suddenly I can spell" pills :?:

They does lok gud to me i want sum :!:

Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:21 am

You still have not produced one compelling argument that was not based on some sort of recycled cliche. I guess if Elvis wasn't as famous as he was he would have taken cocaine instead. Or maybe if he'd been poor he would have taken some other drug.

Also it is odd that my original post was a criticism of the book not of any particular user. Yet your response immediately got personal something I had never done until this thread.

Listen up and it's about time somebody told you flat out. You ARE NOT AN EXPERT ON ELVIS PRESLEY! Peter Guralnick is an expert on Elvis Presley. Ernst Jorgensen is an expert on Elvis Presley. You're an enthusiastic fan like everyone else here. You've done no original research. You've never been published on the topic. Like everyone else here you've read what others have written and digested that. That's it, no more no less.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:53 am

likethebike wrote:You still have not produced one compelling argument that was not based on some sort of recycled cliche.


I'm still waiting for you to successfully articulate one single coherent thought.

likethebike wrote:Also it is odd that my original post was a criticism of the book not of any particular user. Yet your response immediately got personal something I had never done until this thread.


That's odd. I thought my posts and the level to which they are getting "personal" are directly proportional to to the same extent that you are doing so. Feel free to continue.

likethebike wrote:Listen up and it's about time somebody told you flat out. You ARE NOT AN EXPERT ON ELVIS PRESLEY! Peter Guralnick is an expert on Elvis Presley. Ernst Jorgensen is an expert on Elvis Presley. You're an enthusiastic fan like everyone else here. You've done no original research. You've never been published on the topic. Like everyone else here you've read what others have written and digested that. That's it, no more no less.


Once again, your ignorance is glaring. Quite a statement to make, seeing as how you know nothing about me. :wink: You know, "Ad Hominem" attacks are also a sign of a limited ability to process coherent thought. Why am I not surprised?

Since "The Death of Elvis" was a wee-bit too rigorous intellectually for you to digest ...................... might I suggest some titles, perhaps more conducive to your level of thinking:

"Me N Elvis" by Charlie Hodge
"I Called Him Babe" by Marian Cocke
"Elvis - We Remember" by Wanda June Hill
"I Got Ya, Elvis, I Got Ya!" by Betty Page
"My Life With Elvis....." by Becky Yancy

I could go on, but I think that the above would be good start for you ...... and ...... most importantly easily digested "essential" reading that you are searching for.


N8
... just a fan ....

Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:07 am

Read your original post.

I don't have to know anything about you to know you haven't had a publication. Writers secure enough in their opinions to get paid for them don't make personal dismissals in the face of legitimate criticism. The way the game is supposed to work is a person makes a point and you counter.

When you start getting personal you're already beat.

In general, what this is your personal little hissy fit because someone actually dared to disagree with you.

Further, there was nothing insulting in my previous post, certainly nothing that could be considered "an attack". Just a reality check.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:07 am

"likethebike" - since when is an Elvis Presley MB "reality"?

Try not to think to too deeply on that one, OK? :wink:

BTW, ...... are those 5 (five) titles above enough to keep you busy or shall I recommend some more? On second thought, I'll just wait until you are done reading them and then get back to you with some more in a couple of years.


N8
... just a fan ....

Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:18 am

Cheap insults. If you had a point other than establishing your own (perceived) intellectual superiority there wouldn't be a dispute. I'm tired of pi**ing with you.

Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:44 am

I forgot maybe the all time greatest Elvis book: Paul Simpson's "The Rough Guide to Elvis". This book features evaluations of all of Presley's original albums and movies, a ranking of 50 essential songs, a list of influences, evaluations of bootlegs and FTDs, examinations of many of his personal relationships and Elvis myths among many, many other items. It's a little hand-held job you can pick up for about $12 and it's worth every cent. Open it to any page and you'll find something interesting.