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ELVIS ORIGINAL CISCO 1971 JUMPSUIT JUST DISCOVERED.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:45 pm

I was going through some sites and came across another Cisco suit from 1971 on the http://www.traffickingelvis.com site. Never before seen since 1971 until now. they want an amazing $250,000 for it. I suppose that could be a fair price as this suit is one of fifteen outside the clutches of Graceland.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:55 pm

Only 15? I would not have guessed that.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:24 pm

This "Black Cisco" suit is totally bogus. I read the accompanying article, and noticed that he did get one thing right. Graceland has reciepts showing that 4 cisco suits AND ONLY 4 were made for Elvis (I was told this by a now former archivist). However these were:
1. White w/ Black Leather
2. Black w/ Green Leather
3. Black w/ Blue Leather
4. Black w/ Red Leather

He says in the article "Speculation has been made that the jumpsuit on the cover of Elvis’ Grammy Award scared album “He Touched Me” (c1972) is one such jumpsuit with red leather; but it is reflecting a red spot light that gives the appearance it is red as seen above on the first photo."

NOT TRUE-- I have SEEN the Red Cisco in PERSON. It resides at the Rock N' Soul Museum in the Gibson Guitar factory in Memphis. It is there ON LOAN FROM GRACELAND. Graceland had all 4 cisco suits until they sold the Green one at the Vegas auction.

P.S.- At the top of the page next to the pictures of the suit there is a photo that has been altered to appear that Elvis is wearing the Black Leather suit. The unaltered photo can be seen under "August 5, 1971" in the Las Vegas 1969-1976 photo section of http://www.silvesterselvispage.at In this photo you can clearly see that Elvis is really wearing the Blue Leather cisco

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:24 pm

Is this a fake one too?
http://www.schreibarbeiten.org/j030-1.html

It looks pretty "new" to me...

Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:30 pm

Sorry King!! It appears you never got the full information.

If pictures is the only thing you can come up with then thats your problem. As the detailed description says it refers to the photo's as a reference to all the Cisco suits not the first experimental Cisco suit that is on the site..

As far as the word 'speculation' when talking about a photo, that is exactly what it means 'speculation'. Meaning not confirmed!

After checking with the collector who has this, who is well known in the Elvis world, this suit was never purchased by Graceland.

This was the original experimental version. Elvis wore it, liked it, but could not go on stage with it as it was too tight. From this first Cisco suit came the idea of four more being made with new size measurments.

The fact is the Colonel kept it and gave it away to someone that did him a favour. This suit was made for Elvis by the ICC Company to perform during the 1971 Vegas engagement. Considering how many Original Jumpsuits are out there, outside the hands of Graceland, this is as good as the other 14 or so that are around and is the true first of the Cisco suit before the final order of 4 to be made!

This Jumpsuit has been verified by some of the top well know Elvis collectors in the US and has been double checked over the last 6 months from various sources before it was put on show for the first time on that website.

Also it has the original ICC Costume tag on the back which has also been verified as original. As all you big collectors know, that was the company that designed all of his Jumpsuits and personal clothing in the 70's.

Personally I think the Cisco suits were the best looking. But there was always 5 in the first place. Its taken everyone until now to know.

I do know that the collector was at first sceptical and he personally has known of the suit for 3 years but took him until late last year to purchase it from the ex-pitt box of the Hilton after a lot of research!!

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:31 pm

Johan D,

There's no way that that's Elvis.... it looks way too big, and the collar looks too small. Looks to be made by an impersonation-costumer, and not a good one at that..

I'd be quite surprised if that was Elvis'.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:40 pm

MikeMcCoy wrote:Johan D,

There's no way that that's Elvis.... it looks way too big, and the collar looks too small. Looks to be made by an impersonation-costumer, and not a good one at that..

I'd be quite surprised if that was Elvis'.


And I seriously doubt that they would have a jumpsuit from 1971, worn by Elvis Presley, hanging on $0.50 wire hanger.
It looks a little too pretty to be from 1971.

Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:51 pm

Hi JohanD,.regarding the picture of the suit you posted ....the answer to your question,..... it is fake......these were the same pictures used a couple of months ago to sell this suit on Ebay from the guy that made it,......I looked for the post however it is no longer valid.

Nevertheless i was in touch with the maker too.....hope that clears that up

Regarding the other suit looks interesting.........don't have the time to look into it right now however, outside looking in it looks pretty good,..where's our good friend EP COLLECTOR?

Maybe he can shed some more light on this..........

PEP 8)

Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:32 am

jon burrows,
the man who wrote the article is clearly trying to say that the suit on the cover of the "He Touched Me" LP is not red, but in fact the black suit reflecting red light. You must not have paid attention to the article. I HAVE SEEN THE RED SUIT, which proves this to be a false claim.
So far as the "too tight to wear on stage" story consider this:

1. I.C. Costumes made all of Elvis's previous costumes since 1969, so they had his measurements why is it too tight? He had not gained that much weight since 1970

2. No other Elvis jumpsuit has a prototype, why? Because if the didn't fit right, the costume company altered it to fit. So why didnt they do the same with this suit?

3. Elvis and the colonel didn't share possessions. What was Elvis's was Elvis's, what was the colonel's was the colonel's. Since Elvis paid for his jumpsuits, the Colonel had no right to give this suit to anyone, because it didnt belong to him. So how did colonel acquire it to give it to the pit boss??

4. Elvis's jumpsuits weren't exactly collectors items back in the 70's, so why would colonel give this as a "thank you gift" (especially if it wasn't his to give in the first palce)


Also, I believe you got confused abuout something i said in my original statement. I NEVER said that Graceland bought this suit. I said that Graceland owned all 4 original suits (I dont consider this suit original) until Graceland sold the green one in Vegas. They now own the other 3 ORIGNAL suits INCLUDING the Red one on the cover of "He Touched me", This red suit is on display at Memphis's Rock N' Soul Museum.

Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:07 pm

If one takes a closer look at the stud work done on the Black Cisco, One has to ask why is the Stud work different, if one compares it to the other 4 Cisco kid suits of this design,

Some of the differences or the things I noticed were the size of the nail head used on the yoke,......to me they look slightly larger by the look of them or they are spread out more so as there isn't as many, for example on the Green Cisco kid if One counts the nail heads on the front placed on the outer part of the yoke, I count 20 nail heads from the bottom peak on the right hand side as a example to the shoulder, (I was able to do this by looking at a clearer Original picture of the Green Cisco kid suit used in the Official Auction Catalogue from 1999), where on the Black version there seems to be only 18 nail heads, plus I also noticed there's a nail head placed at the peak of the yoke on the back, where the other Cisco Kid suits did not do this and as well I also count more nail heads used on the back of the Original suits surrounding the yoke, The Red & the Green for example, approx 15 used per side, on the Black version 12 nail heads perside, plus one at the bottom of the peak which has already been mentioned.........most noticeable there seems to be No Starburst design on the back of the suit under the yoke for the Black version.....where the other four suits have it........

Here again this makes no sense,.....other than the fact I have found , most makers of this suit were not aware of this Starburst design on the back of the suit until personel pictures taken at the Auction of the Green Cisco Kid and displayed on the web ( ironically these pictures displayed were my pictures taken at the Auction an used on the web without my knowledge) ,......Nevertheless only then did I notice Elvis suit makers started changing their designs.......if they were on top of this sort of thing.

My guess or opinion because of some of these facts I would believe this suit, unlikely is an Original.........

PEP 8)
http://www.schreibarbeiten.org/j023-1.html
http://www.schreibarbeiten.org/j023-2.html
http://www.traffickingelvis.com
Last edited by PEP on Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:04 pm

KingOfTheJungle wrote:
He says in the article "Speculation has been made that the jumpsuit on the cover of Elvis’ Grammy Award scared album “He Touched Me” (c1972) is one such jumpsuit with red leather; but it is reflecting a red spot light that gives the appearance it is red as seen above on the first photo."

NOT TRUE-- I have SEEN the Red Cisco in PERSON. It resides at the Rock N' Soul Museum in the Gibson Guitar factory in Memphis.


KingOfTheJungle,

You're right.

I have also seen the Red Cisco at the Rock N' Soul Museum.

Tom (from Ohio)

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:21 am

As I know the owner of the trafficking site I had an email from Joseph, and he is setting up a message board account to clarify a lot of what is being said here. He said that he will look into it early next week when he gets his account confirmation.

He maintains that the source is legitimate and is this suit is now owned by a collector that is well known by us all and is respected.

As far as comments that I have seen on here, messages like he was not fat at that time is really rubbish.

The notes I have seen on here are all he never did this or that. As if everyone knows every action Elvis and the Colonel did. As every little detail would be recorded of every minute and every conversation between the both.

It is well known that from the 60's Elvis put on and off weight all the time. Think of when this suit was made in early 1971 or around when Elvis met Nixon in December 1970, you can clearly see that Elvis was not thin as he was in August 1970 Hilton shows. I alone have seen many photo's of Elvis in that time era of mid 70 to say mid 71 where his weight would always alter.

As far as what the Colonel did and what Elvis owned is always open to speculation, I mean no one actually knows what happens on each and every arrangement they both had on every single item. Maybe Elvis said the Colonel could have it as no longer wanted or needed it since this experimental draft suit was not to his best liking. Maybe the IC company said OK you dont like it, what do you like to change etc. They have have given to Elvis as it was no good to them since Elvis is already a big time contract. NO one really knows, however it is best that in the meantime we keep an open mind untill Joseph say's what he has to say about it.

But you cant say for sure that you know exactly what happend just because you cant find this story written in a book somewhere.

As far as Why would the Colonel give a suit when it was not a collectable in those days. Well!! That is probably why he did give it, because it was then, at that time , not a collectable!!, and considered a nice gift.

Best we wait to see what Joseph says then we can all quiz him properly on this matter.

Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:41 am

Thank you EP Collector for keeping an open mind until we hear from the Boss

Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:23 am

EP Collector all-rightee that helps a little were you mention about the different Nail Head shapes, didn't know that, Thanks neat to know!

However..I would like to point out as an example the Burning Love Pin Wheel design were there are different color versions available also an when one compares this style to either the White or the Black versions a different style of nail head was used on the Red version different to the other two version,.........yet the layout seemed to be No different.........

I would have like to believe this would have been the case for the Cisco Kid as well,...........

Neverthless gaining access to the information you may beable to get from the designers should solve this mystery...........

Look forward to the news....

PEP 8)

Interesting thread.

Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:53 am

KingOfTheJungle wrote:This "Black Cisco" suit is totally bogus........the man who wrote the article is clearly trying to say that the suit on the cover of the "He Touched Me" LP is not red, but in fact the black suit reflecting red light..........I have SEEN the Red Cisco in PERSON. It resides at the Rock N' Soul Museum


Way too premature for such a blanket rejection - based upon hearsay and website photos.

The Red Cisco (one-piece) is / was on display at the Rock-N-Soul Museum. I don't buy the speculation that the jumpsuit on the "He Touched Me" album is the black one - quite a leap, based upon wishful thinking.

john burrows wrote:It appears you never got the full information......'speculation' when talking about a photo...........the source is legitimate and is this suit is now owned by a collector that is well known by us all and is respected.


Agreed, in that one cannot make any conclusions based simply upon photos; one needs to see the item in-person. Photos can be very deceptive & misleading in comparison to reality.

Any source can make an inadvertent mistake; any of us can. No collector is infallible.

MikeMcCoy wrote:There's no way that that's Elvis.... it looks way too big, and the collar looks too small. Looks to be made by an impersonation-costumer, and not a good one at that..


The operative word here is ............... looks .................... but, as stated above - photos can be very deceptive; seeing an item in reality puts things into an entirely different perspective. Photos are only a starting point in the evaluation of a piece.

elvis-fan wrote:And I seriously doubt that they would have a jumpsuit from 1971, worn by Elvis Presley, hanging on $0.50 wire hanger.


This is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

PEP wrote:it is fake...............the same pictures used a couple of months ago to sell this suit on Ebay from the guy that made it


If PEP's words are true, ......... this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

(deleted - see guidelines #9) wrote:The main thing that bothers me about this suit, is the story that follows it. I just find it improbable that its true........an open mind is needed, without it then there could be some legit pieces scattered to the wind


When it comes to Elvis' personal items - Anything is possible, ........... many historical pieces could forever be lost if this is forgotten. The story is entirely plausible to me, but follow-up is the order of the day here.

Bill Belew and Gene Doucette are the final word on this matter to put any and all questions / doubts to rest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The site "TraffickingElvis" is an interesting site. IMO, the prices are on the very steep end of the spectrum and some of the descriptions take a bit of semantic liberty ................ but most collectors already know this is par for the territory.


N8
... just a fan ....

Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:41 am

Hi N880EP

Just to clarify my comment about One of the Cisco Kid Suits as being fake was for this one
http://www.schreibarbeiten.org/j030-1.html
I was intouch with the maker of this suit directly, an just so everyone knows the maker of the suit in No way suggested that this suit was One of Elvis suits in his Auction on Ebay, nor through E-mail,.......why http://www.silvesterselvispage.at/ decided to use the pictures is anyones guess, because once again they were the same pictures used for the Auction on Ebay.

My thoughts on the Black suit still stand at this point, I do believe the suit is Not an original own by Elvis either,...however once again maybe EP Collector will come through with some solid information either good or bad with in the next little while.

PEP 8)

Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:28 pm

Thanks for the clarification, PEP.

Will be interesting to see how this turns out.


N8
... just a fan ....

Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:37 pm

Regarding the Jacket & Pants with Shirt,.........I thought it was the same suit too,....however until I looked at the pictures again posted on Paul's Elvis page where Elvis is wearly a simular Jacket

http://members.rogers.com/paulselvispage/studio71.html

One can see clearly that it is not the same Jacket........

(By the way these pictures first saw the light of day to my knowledge in Shawn Shavers book Candid Elvis "THE ELVIS BOOK IV")

I guess here again we have slight differences in some clothing Elvis is wearing which has the same basic theme, but is different,.....however for personnel clothing somehow this makes more sense to me........

Well it does right now for me anyway..........LOL

Along with the suit the story is pretty cool too !

PEP 8)

Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:24 am

PEP wrote:Regarding the Jacket & Pants with Shirt,.........I thought it was the same suit too,....however until I looked at the pictures again posted on Paul's Elvis page where Elvis is wearly a simular Jacket

One can see clearly that it is not the same Jacket........

Along with the suit the story is pretty cool too !


PEP - to what set of clothing are you referring to?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the black-on-black Cisco jumpsuit is real, and Elvis wore it on-stage, there are most likely photos of it out there (just a matter of finding them). Lots & lots of unpublished pics are in the private hands of fans / casual fans / and even non-fans.

I've often been amazed at what turns up in photos. A photo of Elvis with the article of clothing / personal item / jumpsuit is the ultimate desire of any collector of such items.


N8
... just a fan ....

Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:23 am

Sorry about that N880EP I should have made myself a little clearer, I was referring and responding to EP Collector's comment........where he said........


What did you all think of the 26K Elvis Nay blue suit, and matching shirt being offered on the same site. I think it is awesome. I wonder if its the same suit photographed while he was on his way to the Nashville session in early 1972, or 1971.

(deleted - see guidelines #9)

I was assuming EP Collector was referring to these pictures http://members.rogers.com/paulselvispage/studio71.html which show Elvis in a simular suit jacket now available on http://www.traffickingelvis.com

PEP 8)

Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:49 am

Thanks again, PEP.

I see it now.

Agreed, it is not the same coat. As you've stated, it could be a similar one. I'm generally leery of identical "multiple originals", but similar originals are very possible.

Incidently, the American Flag lapel pin E is wearing in the bottom pic. was mis-ID'ed (Butterfield Velvet auctions) as the one he wore at his divorce proceedings in October of 1973 in Los Angeles, CA.. Not so, the 1973 lapel pin was a different one. It was, nevertheless, the real deal though (as evidenced from that shot on the website you linked to - orginally from Shaver's books).


N8
... just a fan ....