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Steamroller Blues Hitstory VS ALOHA FROM HAWAII 1998 CD

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:27 am

Steamroller Blues sounds much better on the 1998 release because it was remixed well. DSD by itself is not magical! It is simply a high resolution storage medium. When we play it on a CD we are not getting the full resolution but closer to the sound, I admit. The reason the 1998 CD version blows away the 2005 version is because the original poor mix of 1973 is FAITHFULLY reproduced on the later. When it comes to LIVE CONCERTS I imagine everyone (or some) would agree with me that we should try to get the best sound possible regardless of original mix if it can be IMPROVED. So if MSG gets a revamp using DSD technology and just uses the original rushed mix (album came out just 10 days after show) then the Afternoon MSG show will always sound better.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:37 am

Good post...

I totally agree with your sentiments on the sound and remix.

The '98 remix of Aloha was simply a labour of love, IMO. all the instruments sound clear and crisp and Elvis' voice is well balanced in the mix.

And for once, you can actually hear that Elvis had a drummer in his band. check out the mix on Ronnie's snare drum from the '98 cd. it's krackin'... 8)

If you really notice, Ferrante turned down that annoying Saxophone in the '98 remix of Steamroller, but with this new "DSD" remaster of 2005, it's way back up.

some like it, some don't...

I don't... :roll: oh well.

let's face it, some of Elvis' records were poorly mixed and nowadays sound extremely dated.

if they continue to release them in this quality, (DSD, same mix), it could, I'm not saying it will, it could, turn off some new, (if there are any to be found), listeners getting into Elvis music.

jus my opinion.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:53 am

Thanks Mink. Just because it is DSD don't mean ~!@##$#! Just like the computer junk in junk out. And this is not even to the level of what DSD is made for---SACD. All we can do is keep our fingers crossed and someone that not only cares about the sound, but has the leverage or power to include it as a major factor for the budget of a new release.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:09 am

I'm surprised that we still haven't got Elvis on SACD. New albums should be released as hybrid SACD's which would mean that they still could be played on a regula cd-player, too. I've got a few SACD's and I love them.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:15 am

It's funny that you're talking about this actually .... I was thinking about the same during the last days ...

I listened to the DSD master of "Got A Feeling In My Body" and thought: oh boy, Dennis Ferrante did not mix everything wrong back in the 90s :D

I think, the big advantage with DSD is: we get the original mixes in a perfect and high resolution sound. This is extremely precious for the 50s masters and the 69 stuff ... but for the 70s stuff I may prefer some of the Ferrantes mixes anytime ...

Interesting is by the way: the DSD-Remaster do not list "mixed by"-credits anymore, but "Tape Transfers" instead .... so, it seems like: there is no mixing anymore at the moment, there is only a mastering. Is that correct!?

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:26 am

You got it etp. It seems they are using the original stereo master mixes. Which is good for historical reasons I guess. But we should store all the multi tracks to DSD track by track so in the future things if needed, can be remixed. I think (dreaming does not cost a thing) we should have both original mixes and improved. Too much to ask for I know. :wink: Regular CD to SACD is like Standard Definition TV is to HDTV. A veil is taken from your eyes and ears. Marko, hybrid has the problem of paying double for rights etc..

Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:43 am

The good thing about the DSD remasters is: if BMG re-issues the 50s, 60s and 70s box sets in DSD-sound, the old ones are not senseless until we get remixed DSD masters ....

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:23 pm

etp wrote:Interesting is by the way: the DSD-Remaster do not list "mixed by"-credits anymore, but "Tape Transfers" instead .... so, it seems like: there is no mixing anymore at the moment, there is only a mastering. Is that correct!?


Congratulations, someone *finally* understood the concept, there are indeed *no* remixes involved in DSD technology whatsoever, and that is the reason that no remix engineer is mentioned in the credits, they are simply not needed.

DSD remasters are straight transfers from the original mastertapes which might involve some EQ'ing to get the optimal sound as it was recorded. And, there is no such thing as a remixed DSD master, it does not exist!

I'm very much looking forward to future re-releases of other albums such as the expanded editions of "From Elvis in Memphis", "Promised Land", "Moody Blue" or "Elvis Country" which all deserve DSD upgrades.

Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:54 pm

thenexte wrote:
etp wrote:Interesting is by the way: the DSD-Remaster do not list "mixed by"-credits anymore, but "Tape Transfers" instead .... so, it seems like: there is no mixing anymore at the moment, there is only a mastering. Is that correct!?


Congratulations, someone *finally* understood the concept, there are indeed *no* remixes involved in DSD technology whatsoever, and that is the reason that no remix engineer is mentioned in the credits, they are simply not needed.

DSD remasters are straight transfers from the original mastertapes which might involve some EQ'ing to get the optimal sound as it was recorded. And, there is no such thing as a remixed DSD master, it does not exist!

I'm very much looking forward to future re-releases of other albums such as the expanded editions of "From Elvis in Memphis", "Promised Land", "Moody Blue" or "Elvis Country" which all deserve DSD upgrades.





The "Promised Land" 2000 Re-Issue CD absolutely rocks, IMO. Excellent sound due to the fact all tracks were re-mixed and re-mastered from scratch. No DSD on this one. DSD dont mean crap if the tracks were'nt mixed properly.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:02 am

minkahed wrote:Good post...

If you really notice, Ferrante turned down that annoying Saxophone in the '98 remix of Steamroller, but with this new "DSD" remaster of 2005, it's way back up.

some like it, some don't...

I don't... :roll: oh well.

let's face it, some of Elvis' records were poorly mixed and nowadays sound extremely dated.


Interesting thread. You audiophiles are relentless but I always learn from your high standards. :D

As for Mink's comment, I'll have to listen for it. I don't recall any thing
like it. Besides, saxes are normally fine in a good blues horn section.
I'll be cueing it up later! :lol:

Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:35 am

Multi track tapes can be transfered to DSD. If its not being done(For Elvis), thats another matter. And if it is done (DSD or PCM) the mixing would bring a great sounding ADD CD. If the Ferrante mixes were done to analog tape then a transfer to DSD is better or much better than that ALOHA FROM HAWAII original extremely POOR MIX for example and most of the 1970s material. You must know that thenexte.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:53 am

Great discussion!

Correct me if i'm wrong here.

The re-released 2005 CD's that Kevan Budd mastered, are they done using the DSD technology?

The credits say:

Mastered by Kevan Budd
DSD transfers:Andreas Meyers at Sony Studios, N.Y.


Thanks,
RKS

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:08 am

Yes RKSNASHVILLE and no reason to doubt if it is credited. Here is something at random I put in a search in google for multi track transfers to DSD ----------Our most recent project using the GX9048 was a remix of a Mahavishnu Orchestra live concert from the early 1970s. Source was an eight-track, 1-inch non-Dolby tape at 15 ips. The thought was to transfer to a multitrack DSD platform with timecode so that the mix could be automated, and so that the source tapes would be played back only once during the transfer rather than over and over during mixing. Once the file system of ADLs had been sorted out, the operation of transferring the two analog reels went quite smoothly. The assistant on the mix date was quickly familiarized with GX9048's operation, and his prior knowledge of the model GX8500 made for a quick introduction. The Genex GX9048 then ran smoothly for two days of mixing without a hitch, happily chasing timecode from the mixing console transport panel. In my opinion, the source material was slightly enhanced by going on and off the DSD recorder - just a little extra sense of air in the top end. credit----Richard King is a Grammy-winning recording engineer specializing in the recording of classical, jazz, and film scores, and has worked with Yo-Yo Ma, Chick Corea, Billy Joel and Tan Dun. He is based at Sony Music Studios.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:11 am

A little more..........The A/D converters were auditioned against several other popular DSD and PCM 192 kHz converters, and the Genex GX9048 did very well. The 192 kHz PCM option sounded very true to the original source, in fact one of the four engineers that listened heard no difference between the two. In DSD mode the converters were slightly colored, but in a positive way, which I find typical of the one-bit system. It translates as a high-frequency presence lift or sparkle, although it is fairly subtle. Both DSD and 4fs/192 kHz PCM had a stable image, solid center, good high frequency extension, and very satisfying low frequency response. This came from Proaudioreview.com. Picked at random. Not selling the recorder. :lol: credit----Richard King is a Grammy-winning recording engineer specializing in the recording of classical, jazz, and film scores, and has worked with Yo-Yo Ma, Chick Corea, Billy Joel and Tan Dun. He is based at Sony Music Studios.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:20 am

JLGB,

O.K. now you're way over my head!

Is it agreed then by most, that Kevan Budd's work on the 2005 re-releases of Elvis' first 3 albums is the best sound yet?


RKS

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:24 am

The 98 reissue is not that spectacular. It lacks punch and there is no fullness to the recording. There are multi-track tapes for this show, a great and powerful mix could potentially exist. Maybe if someone like Eddie Kramer who can certainly mix a live album was involved with a remix, 'Aloha' would like up to it's potential.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:33 am

RKSNASHVILLE wrote:JLGB,

O.K. now you're way over my head!

Is it agreed then by most, that Kevan Budd's work on the 2005 re-releases of Elvis' first 3 albums is the best sound yet?


RKS
Yes sir. Mono is great. Except Hound Dog which the Billboard Cd is better sounding to me. It is most of the 70s original mixes which were/are not mixed well or can be improved tremendously.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:36 am

midnightx wrote:The 98 reissue is not that spectacular. It lacks punch and there is no fullness to the recording. There are multi-track tapes for this show, a great and powerful mix could potentially exist. Maybe if someone like Eddie Kramer who can certainly mix a live album was involved with a remix, 'Aloha' would like up to it's potential.
I gather you havent heard the 2005 Hitstory version(Steamroller Blues). That really lacks everything it did(1973) and much more of it today.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:02 am

Didn't the "Elvis - Aloha from Hawaii" deluxe edition DVD from last year feature remastered sound? Why would anybody still care about the CD with this set being out now? There's really no point...

Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:14 am

thenexte wrote:Didn't the "Elvis - Aloha from Hawaii" deluxe edition DVD from last year feature remastered sound? Why would anybody still care about the CD with this set being out now? There's really no point...
Remixed and remastered sound. If you are in audiophile mode you do not want to see and hear Elvis in a home theater setup. You want to listen in a (high-end if possible) stereo audio only system. Or in multi-ch, if Elvis recordings are ever released in SACD. But that is really not the point. Steamroller Blues was just an example that the ORIGINAL mixes just because they are ORIGINAL does NOT mean BETTER. :) DSD or not.
Last edited by Juan Luis on Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:06 pm

thenexte wrote:Didn't the "Elvis - Aloha from Hawaii" deluxe edition DVD from last year feature remastered sound? Why would anybody still care about the CD with this set being out now? There's really no point...


The point is to listen to Aloha as an album, on a good hifi. As much as I love visuals I prefer listening to Elvis. I listen to the CD more than I watch the special which is a totally different experience.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:09 pm

midnightx wrote:The 98 reissue is not that spectacular. It lacks punch and there is no fullness to the recording. There are multi-track tapes for this show, a great and powerful mix could potentially exist. Maybe if someone like Eddie Kramer who can certainly mix a live album was involved with a remix, 'Aloha' would like up to it's potential.


Yeah, Eddie Kramer would be the right man for the job!


Sincerely MB280E

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:12 pm

Matthew wrote:
thenexte wrote:Didn't the "Elvis - Aloha from Hawaii" deluxe edition DVD from last year feature remastered sound? Why would anybody still care about the CD with this set being out now? There's really no point...


The point is to listen to Aloha as an album, on a good hifi. As much as I love visuals I prefer listening to Elvis. I listen to the CD more than I watch the special which is a totally different experience.


I agree. BTW has anyone tried to listen with headphones the dolby digital stereo mix on the dvd. Wonder is there much difference to the sound compared to the cd?

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:26 pm

I gather you havent heard the 2005 Hitstory version(Steamroller Blues). That really lacks everything it did(1973) and much more of it today.


JLGB, No. There is no reason to pick up this lame compilation and support BMG's efforts in their endless desire to repackage. However, if the sound is worse than on the 98 remix of Aloha, it once again proves that BMG is ruining the King's recording legacy on their mainstream label releases.

Yeah, Eddie Kramer would be the right man for the job!


MB280E, as you know, there are some great engineers out there that have done marvelous work mixing live material. Certainly Dennis Ferrante is not one of them, IMO. Maybe a bunch of fans should sign a petition for a brilliant producer/engineer (like Kramer) to finally mix an Elvis show and send it to BMG?! At least they would once again see that there is a problem and that there are solutions.

Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:27 pm

JLGB wrote:
RKSNASHVILLE wrote:JLGB,

O.K. now you're way over my head!

Is it agreed then by most, that Kevan Budd's work on the 2005 re-releases of Elvis' first 3 albums is the best sound yet?


RKS
Yes sir. Mono is great. Except Hound Dog which the Billboard Cd is better sounding to me. It is most of the 70s original mixes which were/are not mixed well or can be improved tremendously.



I'm still learning but I have to back that up. :D
Hooray for the work of Kevan Budd!

I do have to go back
and compare my BILLBOARD version of Hound Dog, however.

I find it hard to believe that such a disc (what, from 1989 or '91?)
still could beat Budd's 2005 remaster.