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Elvis On Tour - Outtakes.

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:13 pm

I just received the "collectors edition" of The Making of on Tour DVD. This was advertised to improved picture quality as to what was previously released over the last couple of months. I was very dissapointed as the 2 discs I think which are not perfect are actually better. One thing that puzzles me is how the quality has dropped so much from the original Elvis On Tour movie as the same cameras were used to film all this stuff so why are we suddenly getting it in 6/7 out of 10 quality.

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:23 pm

Jasper,
The "On Tour Outtakes" DVD's now being sold are many generation old (copies of copies of copies) and therefore have lousy quality. Studio DVD's use the original source negative, so the quality is much, much better, especialy if the film has benn digitally remastered.

Tom

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:34 pm

Tom

This always puzzles me :? . I can understand that the first copy is only as good as the source, but why would subsequent copies from the first degrade further? Unlike analogue media (e.g. tape) digital media copies are bit-for-bit and therefore 'exact' copies.

Rooster

Re: Elvis On Tour - Outtakes.

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:39 pm

jasper wrote:I just received the "collectors edition" of The Making of on Tour DVD. This was advertised to improved picture quality as to what was previously released over the last couple of months. I was very dissapointed as the 2 discs I think which are not perfect are actually better. One thing that puzzles me is how the quality has dropped so much from the original Elvis On Tour movie as the same cameras were used to film all this stuff so why are we suddenly getting it in 6/7 out of 10 quality.



Jasper, let me say this, and for those of you who are considering buying them, and wonder which version is better and which DVD cover is better, please read on .......

Those money sucking leeches on Ebay would basically send you a DVD cover that was awfully xeroxed from the one advertised all blurry and unreadable ..... . And on top of that the DVD's are all actually DVD-R's and BADDLY made.. with awful quality.....Ive ordered 5 different ones (of the EOT outtakes) from 5 different dealers on EBAY, I've basically been ripped off from all of them. I sincerely urge you to sway away from dealing with those money hungry maggots on Ebay (you know who you are , you UK bastards !!!) . The same applies with the TTWII outtakes...I ordered one set.. 11 DVD's ..paid about 150 British pounds ..only to get some discs that dont even play on my DVD !!! And to top it off ..they wouldnt accept refunds because theyre easy to copy. Live and learn my dear friend, live and learn ...hopefully you'll learn before you make that dreadful mistake of buying them and throwing away your hard earned money like I did. :( :( :( :(

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:43 pm

Rooster,
You have to keep in mind that, for the most part, these copies are all being made on video. Duplications on video tape get dramatically and increasingly worse with each generation. As the studio's source negatives have not been compromised for these DVD's, who know what the original looks like.

Tom

Rooster wrote:Tom

This always puzzles me :? . I can understand that the first copy is only as good as the source, but why would subsequent copies from the first degrade further? Unlike analogue media (e.g. tape) digital media copies are bit-for-bit and therefore 'exact' copies.

Rooster

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:47 pm

Rooster wrote:Tom

This always puzzles me :? . I can understand that the first copy is only as good as the source, but why would subsequent copies from the first degrade further? Unlike analogue media (e.g. tape) digital media copies are bit-for-bit and therefore 'exact' copies.

Rooster


I also wondered about this :)

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:54 pm

Thanks Tom. Good point.

Rooster

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:02 pm

Think about it this way: Let's say you taped an episode of Lost off of TV last year and then made a copy for a friend. He then made a copy of that copy and sent it to another friend and so on and so on and so on. The quality would get worse and worse with each generation.

Now, let's say you bought the first season of Lost on DVD and made the first copy from that, but on DVD-R. The quality from the very beginning is much, much better and, as it's all done digitally, the subsequent copies are of significantly better quality as well.

It all goes back to the source and the guys peddling these DVD's are obviously not using a first generation source. Then, for some unknown reason, they added the fact "time code" to make it look more authentic.

Tom

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:29 pm

Tom in North Carolina wrote:Now, let's say you bought the first season of Lost on DVD and made the first copy from that, but on DVD-R. The quality from the very beginning is much, much better and, as it's all done digitally, the subsequent copies are of significantly better quality as well.

Tom


If created by someone who knows what they are doing, the subsequent copies of the 'Lost' DVD in your example would not just be significantly better - they would be identical.

However, they are three ways that a DVD copy can be degraded when compared to the original DVD. These are re-encoded video, compression and digital-to-analogue-to-digital conversion. If you want to understand more, use Google.

Btw, if you understand Bittorrent, you can currently download a copy of the' Elvis On Tour Outtakes' DVD for free.

Chris

reply

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:57 pm

Thanks for your input guys but I also understood that digital copies do not loose quality or am I wrong to think that. If we look at the TTWIS outakes that are being sold on ebay at the moment. The quality is just okay but compared to the new footage we received on the TTWII Special edition a couple of years ago it is rubbish! Yet as my original arguement stated these were all filmed using the same cameras. So What has happened to the good quality stuff. I think when it comes to losing money and getting ripped off us Elvis fans have to be top of the ladder. The On Tour new DVD I just got came from a good source and is a DVD not DVD-R but is sill pretty crap. When will we learn?

Like for Like

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:12 pm

How can you compare 'like for like' when you compare the bootlegged On Tour Outtakes with professionally remastered commercial releases from the negatives on TTWII (SE) - We don't know how this stuff has escaped and in what format and degration evident?

For the record: the first disc of 'On Tour' outtakes is very good quality within context of an unofficial 'escape' - you don't seriously expect it to look and feel like your turner TTWII (SE) ???????

The Outtakes from TTWII and the live 2nd disc of 'On Tour' Outtakes are not as good quality BUT compared to NOTHIN they are exceptable GIVEN THAT we have no official plans in the pipe-line!!!

Enjoy something that we shouldn't have, your only regret should be it's not done by the people who have sat on it all these years. (If you can get it of the net - even the profiteering has been eliminated, lets concentrate on getting it available in the high street!!!!!).

Ladies and gentleman, Shaky has left his soap-box :D

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:02 pm

(deleted - see guidelines #9) wrote:Something not being mentioned here, is the fact that the source for the material is INTENTIONALY degrading the copies. I stated this over 2 months ago, when there was a hint of the footage being released. This one person has been adding/ removing footage, adding counters, and distorting copies. The source is one person, now compounded by the fact that there are copies of copies of his already crap material.

To another point. The outtake footage is not digitaly cleaned up, they are working prints, as Tom knows. The footage on the specail edition was cleaned, and restored in a professional studio. Working copies give you lighting problems, pops on screen, at times the sound reel could be mismatched etc.

Bottom line, stay away from the hucksters, or atleast make sure you wait until the price really drops. Unless your copy is from the mater tapes (which I doubt, except for a few) the quality is going to vary.

(deleted - see guidelines #9)




EP, the thing is , those rip-off artists tell you that these DVD's are genuine, not DVD-R's and that they were taken from original master tapes, only to find out that they were'nt after money was sent to them.
Ebay should fine these idiots for false advertising ! It has been an unpleasant experience for me trying to attain a decent version of EOT and TTWII outtakes. It should'nt have to be a crapshoot trying to get a decent copy. This is totally unfair.

eot

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:24 pm

with regard "moodyblues" comments about uk fans selling on ebay all the outtake footage, here we go, for someone to buy 5 sets of outtakes you must be either very rich or very silly indeed? there are uk fans like me who have put on ebay at less than 100 pounds uk for all the footage from ttwii and eot, but there are some fans here in uk who do put up 6 sets or 11 sets or 10 take a pick, as i received my dvdrs some months back it came on 11 dvds with sound, then a further 6 with majority no sound and 2 eot dvds so there are 19 dvdrs plus whatever is floating about regarding this footage. plse dont brand all uk elvis fans as" bastards", remember the usa produced the "muppets", there are the few who will try rip people off, they aint worth the effort, there is a uk dealer wanting £1000.00 for his footage and id call this getting ripped off unless the footage contained an autograph or something then i would buy. why do some americans think they are the top of the tree with regard to fan status god there are many dutch, danish, british, swedish fans who could give many people a run for there money with regard the life and times of elvis, but im still searchin for that special someone who knows it all and i aint found them yet or doubt i ever will. so take a big chill pill sit back put your shades on and get that cd player turned up and enjoy what we have of elvis because theres room for everyone in the elvis world without limits, unless your hiding up stairs in his room ryan

Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:53 pm

Ryan - Perhaps you could use the money you have made from the illegal sale of copyrighted material to buy a new keyboard. Your Shift key seems to be broken.

Chris
Last edited by ChrisM on Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:33 am

Let me get this straight. So they are spending time and money monitoring and looking for copyright infrigers, but are un-willing to spend any time and money into the making of a box set?

Question 2. They are willing to spend time and money on copyright infringers on material that apparently won't sell well and is really not worth the time, money, and energy anyway to bother with?

Just asking.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:52 am

My friend, a very serious fan with great knowledge of Elvis but also with many years of professional experience from TV/Video production has watched some of the EOT and TTWII together with me at another friend of ours. He has stated the following:

1. The outtakes are copies of ”workprints”
2. Workprints have not been lightning edited

When TTWII SE was made they looked through the work prints of all? the footage. Then they choose the footage to be used. Then they scanned the ORIGINAL NEGATIVES and remastered them (including the very important and expensive process of lightning edit). This is the reason to why TTWII SE is the best Elvis DVD so far.

The outtakes floating around can never be compared to that quality. Collectors that have 1st generation copies still don’t have close to the quality of TTWII SE.

I have seen the original TTWII in perfect DVD quality (I mean perfect). It is not even close to the SE. The technique of lightning and digital procession has been developed since the original TTWII was transferred digitally. The outtakes are bootlegs and the quality is very good bootleg quality. Even if they have been deteriorated compared to the original source, they can never be compared to the professionally remastered thing, but they are still exciting to watch.

We must wait for pro-releases. The on tour footage is not of the same quality as TTWII, due to the film used. But trust me, there is a very serious and commercial plan regarding this – still yet to be presented to Turner though. I will try some of it on this board in the nearest future.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:08 am

EP Collector,

I have not seen first hand copies, but I know that they can not be compared to SE. They are still copies of workprints.

Regarding what will be released - I'm not of your opinion. This footage is loosing a lot of its commercial value in the nearest ten to fifteen years.

BTW, I have not seen anybody stating the difference between workprints and copies of negatives before I did some time ago, but I may be mistaken.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:20 am

EPC,

When did someone state the difference between workprints and relighted scans of negatives? When and where was I mistaken?

I have not interpreted anything even though I have not seen the footage. I have seen some of what is floating around of EOT and TTWII, but I realise that there was much more filmed.

What have I clouded?

There is a business case regarding the footage from TTWII and EOT. Of course Turner will look into this.