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Questions about songs in "That's the Way It Is SE"

Wed Jun 04, 2003 9:52 am

I was watching "That's the Way It Is SE" for the first time last night. A great film, although it's unbelievable that they didn't include the wild stage rehearsal of "Polk Salad Annie". It's the coolest Elvis performance I've ever seen.

Anyway, I have two questions regarding this film:

1. Has the beautiful piano version of "How the Web Was Woven" ever been released on (an official) CD? I love that performance. It's too bad E didn't record a whole album in this soft, understated style...

2. What about the versions of "Words" and "The Wonder of You"? His phrasing in "Words" is pretty different compared to other versions I've heard, and "The Wonder of You" is pure magic.

Well?

Keith Richards, Jr.

Re: Questions about songs in "That's the Way It Is SE&a

Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:23 pm

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:1. Has the beautiful piano version of "How the Web Was Woven" ever been released on (an official) CD? I love that performance. It's too bad E didn't record a whole album in this soft, understated style...

2. What about the versions of "Words" and "The Wonder of You"? His phrasing in "Words" is pretty different compared to other versions I've heard, and "The Wonder of You" is pure magic.


How The Web Was Woven with Elvis playing the piano has not been released officially yet. Well, what about the versions of those two songs?? What the question?

Just like any other fan on this planet I was amazed when I first saw TTWII SE. In fact I bought my DVD-player to watch it. Also it had to be codefree because I bought the original region 1 DVD (I couldn't wait for the European release).

Well, after a while and several times of watching it, I became a little disappointed. Not only that there're essential songs missing (Sweet Caroline, I Just Can't Help Believing, "Brigde"). The film is also edited to death. They cut the film down to pieces from the beginning to the end, from Mytery Train, over That's All Right to Patch It Up, Polk Salad Annie, Suspicious Minds and others. During That's All Right the suits of the band change from black to white and backwards. In You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' Elvis is wearing different Suits. The same with Suspicious Minds and Can't Help Falling In Love (the same suits but definitely from different concerts). Well, what for?? Why shorten Polk Salad and the magnificent Patch It Up that only works because of the never-ending cumulation ...

It's not that I don't like the film. There many great additions and new songs (e.g. Just Pretend is outstanding - if also edited at the beginning). But it isn't what it claims to be, that's my problem. Look at the guy in the car at the beginning, and look at Elvis' shirt when he shakes hand with the gate keeper. I think that's cheating, pretending something that never happened this way.

TTWII

Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:44 pm

To Keith, what took you so long to see this film,as it needed support when it was in the cinemas a couple of years ago?
Also, the ommission of songs like "Bridge", "I just can't help.." and "I've lost you" are a bone of contention. If they HAD have been included, then songs like "You dont have to say you love me" and "I got a woman" would have had to be ommited and fans would have moaned because the same songs were included from the original film!!!! When first seeing this new version, everyone I know was blown away, but now we are all used to it (like the FTD label), it is easy to criticise it with hindsight. It is very superior to the original version.
TONY DOBB

Re: TTWII

Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:57 pm

TONY wrote:To Keith, what took you so long to see this film,as it needed support when it was in the cinemas a couple of years ago?
Also, the ommission of songs like "Bridge", "I just can't help.." and "I've lost you" are a bone of contention. If they HAD have been included, then songs like "You dont have to say you love me" and "I got a woman" would have had to be ommited and fans would have moaned because the same songs were included from the original film!!!! When first seeing this new version, everyone I know was blown away, but now we are all used to it (like the FTD label), it is easy to criticise it with hindsight. It is very superior to the original version.
TONY DOBB


I don't agree that it is superior to the original version. It is technically of course. But it isn't as a documentary. The original film was meant to be a documentary showing Elvis at what was probably the most important and exciting part of his career. One should not forget that approach by Denis Sanders. The interviews are there because this was a documentary not a blockbuster movie.

The SE fails to be a documentary IMO because of all the editing and creating of moments and scenes that simply weren't the way the film wants to make us believe. You can't trust it if you look closely. It's for people that don't ask much. So it's enterainment, no more.

All three songs you mentioned are so connected to the film that it was a terrible fault to leave them out of the SE. I Just Can't Help Believing is probably one of Elvis' 5 best songs from the 1970ies, the TTWII version is outstanding. You can't leave it out.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:05 pm

A voice of reason from Tony Dobb!

TTWIISE

Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:27 pm

Yeah, this new version is much better than the original one. Of course. But, like you say, it is indeed strange that some of the best performances are cut out. I really miss the rehearsal version of "Polk Salad Annie" where Elvis goes totally wild. Elvis is pretty laidback in this movie, he doesn't really move that much, and that's a pity. I think the original movie included more cool movements from our boy. Or am I wrong? Perhaps someone should have filmed him in 1969 instead...

When asked about the missing songs, director Denis Sandes had a good explanation. I trust this guy, he knew what he was doing. And maybe he thought he could include these songs as extra material. If he would've been allowed to that, it would've been the perfect version. It is very, very strange that someone decided to take all the extra stuff away.

TONY:

Why it took me so long? Well, I bought my DVD player just a couple of months ago, and the film was never shown at Swedish cinemas. Plus I already had the original movie.

see-see-rider:

Strange that "How the Web Was Woven" hasn't been released officially. But I guess we'll get it in the future! As for the other question, I was just wondering if these versions of "Words" and "The Wonder of You" can be found on CD.

Is "Patch It Up" edited? Weird. I didn't notice that.

Keith Richards, Jr.

Re: TTWII

Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:31 pm

TONY wrote:Also, the ommission of songs like "Bridge", "I just can't help.." and "I've lost you" are a bone of contention. If they HAD have been included, then songs like "You dont have to say you love me" and "I got a woman" would have had to be ommited and fans would have moaned because the same songs were included from the original film!!!!
TONY DOBB


Why would some songs have to be omitted to include others???There is plenty of room on DVD to include all songs!! or even a 4hr vhs tape for those that don't have a DVD player!!

Promocollector

Re: TTWIISE

Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:04 pm

Keith Richards, Jr. wrote:see-see-rider:Strange that "How the Web Was Woven" hasn't been released officially. But I guess we'll get it in the future! As for the other question, I was just wondering if these versions of "Words" and "The Wonder of You" can be found on CD.

Is "Patch It Up" edited? Weird. I didn't notice that.


Yeah, cuts are supposed not to be noticed! ;)

The Wonder Of You can be found on the The Way It Was CD by FTD. I'm not sure about what version of Words is feat. in TTWII SE (I can't even remember the song being in the film at all) but I'm sure there's a CD version of it, either on One Night In Vegas, The Way It Was, TTWII or Live In Las Vegas box set.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:07 pm

carolynlm wrote:Look at all the movies they make now. I bet there are hundreds of mistakes in them, but we generally only watch a movie a few times and not look too closely. But we still enjoy the movie. So just sit back, watch and enjoy TTWII SE.


First of all I don't care for the "others do it either"-argument. And then there's a difference between a dramatic movie and a documentary. And I can't enjoy a documentary with so many fakes in it.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:26 pm

carolynlm wrote:I just hope I live long enough to see a 3D image of an Elvis concert.


I hope I die before that happens ...

Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:33 pm

carolynlm wrote:CCR have you seen any Elvis concerts at all? Well I haven't seen one, so I am grasping at straws here...


I don't understand your question? Have I seen any concerts at all? You mean live? No. But I can do without a 3D version of what has been released in 2D up to now. That doesn't mean that other might not like it. That's okay. It was just a comment, we're getting off-topic.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:58 pm

I don't mind the cuts. It's still Elvis, they're just giving a glimpse of other performances. He still sang it all. :D


8)

Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:00 pm

But I do miss some of the original songs, that should have been in the bonus material. :(



8)

Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:05 pm

If you had THE LOST PERFORMACES, then there were really only I GOT A WOMAN, CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY YOU LOVE ME and the different HEARTBREAK HOTEL, ONE NIGHT and SUSPIOUS MINDS. I thought the new one was a mixed bag, too many cuts to the audience, not enough different material. Editing in audience reaction shots in THAT'S ALL RIGHT, BLUE SUEDE SHOES, and ALL SHOOK UP does not constitute a different edit to me, it was just annoying. THe new stuff was cool, but it ended up almost as fustrating as the original.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:58 pm

WOW! This post astounds me.

If you watch the intro segment "Patch It Up", the idea behind the re-creation of this movie is explained in detail.
It was not meant to be a duplication of the original.
If you want to see the original, it is available in both video and DVD formats.
I guess it's your prerogative to criticize the superb restoration and documentation job
done by Rick Schmidlin of the best live footage of Elvis in existence.
Sure we don't have it all but can we EVER be satisfied with anything?


:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:52 pm

Good, sensible post Elvis fan! For me, the only disappointment in the SE is the promised extra material that we didn't get. And the SE gets extra points for omitting those inane Cricket & Sue interviews!

Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:26 pm

elvis-fan,

NO you cannot buy the original version anymore! Anyway, the mastering of that one sucked bigtime. It has horrible sound and looks grainy as can be.

The new version I have, but it is still a dissapointment.

The Lost Performances is actually a better documentary then the new special edition!!!

Nobody has mentioned the "new" god aweful version of Suspicious Minds. Elvis seems to be on speed and doesn't match up to the band. Almost like he is leaving them behind. Why they would cut the perfect version of the original is beyond me!!

Also why have Elvis going on about I Just Can't Help Believin and then cut it from the film!! Also I think the new movie was cut to keep more 50's material!! Why take out everything that made the movie cool. Elvis was obviously tired of the old stuff, and was actually trying to perform different songs. Why not have Don't Cry Daddy, Walk A Mile In My Shoes? WHy not keep Bridge, Polk Salad(rehearsal), Sweet Caroline(can't believe this was cut!!!!)? How about Make The World Go Away or The Wonder of You? Better yet how about ANYTHING that exhibited what he was performing at the time, that he cared about. TTWII SE was a big dissapointment, plain and simple. There was plenty of room on the disc, there is no reason to cut up the original movie(the fanatics could go I guess). In the DVD age where other artists have more care..there is no excuse.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:50 pm

genesim wrote:The Lost Performances is actually a better documentary then the new special edition!!!

Nobody has mentioned the "new" god aweful version of Suspicious Minds. Elvis seems to be on speed and doesn't match up to the band. Almost like he is leaving them behind. Why they would cut the perfect version of the original is beyond me!!


Well, I wouldn't call it aweful ;), it's still good enough to make a superstar. But I know what you mean. If I didn't mention it, I simply forgot it. I wanted to mention it because I don't get how they could replace the ultimate version by this one.

genesim wrote:Also why have Elvis going on about I Just Can't Help Believin and then cut it from the film!! Also I think the new movie was cut to keep more 50's material!! Why take out everything that made the movie cool.


Well, actually I like the oldies a lot. I guess they show that Elvis was not tired of the old stuff, Don't Ber Cruel ROCKS and so do the others. It would have been cool of course to Little Sister among the oldies.

The problem is that Schmicklind or whatever his name is was trying to put together what he calls "the ultimate Elvis performance". And for most people that are no die-hard fans the Oldies and In The Ghetto (the palest performance of the movie BTW) simply should be in the ultimate concert. That's the reason to put in more oldies and less "contemporary stuff".

Like I said it's a shame that they cut out "Sweet Caroline", "Belivin'" and others but I guess they figured to reach a wider audience this way. People use to buy the CDs/DVDs that got the big hits of their idols rather than if there was only "unkown" stuff on it like the TTWII albums stuff, if you know what I mean.

TTWII SE was a failure from the very beginnig. And to my knowledge this is not the first movie that Schmickling destroyed. I've only read negative reviews about the other movie he "restored".

Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:48 pm

The following tracks have been released in parts or completely
only on the DVD TTWII-SE and are not availible anywhere else neither on import or BMG:

14.7.70
Bridge Over Troubled Water
You Don`t Have To Say You Love Me

7.8.70
Words (listen to the different phrasing)

11.8.70 DS
I Got A Woman
I Can`t Stop Loving You
Suspiciuous Minds (spl.with 12.8. DS)

12.8. DS
Heartbreak Hotel

any other material has been released on different sources.

regards
Ciscoking

Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:52 pm

what other movie did he restore/screw up?

Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:59 pm

You guys are hilarious!

Hey genesim, I never said you could buy the original version I said it was available meaning it exists. You'd obviously have to find it but it does exist on both video and DVD.

Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:03 pm

genesim wrote:what other movie did he restore/screw up?


Orson Welles' "Touch of Evil".

Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:35 pm

Hey elvis-fan that is great! So if one wants a good version of Thats The Way It Is then they have to go on Ebay to find it. Furthermore somehow try to splice the parts left off with what is on the "Special Edition". The end product...inferior quality on parts, but at least representative of the performances. lol. Like I said..they screwed up!! When one puts something out of print, espcecially something as significant as TTWII, then the replacement should be better right...well not according to RCA!!

Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:58 pm

I guess the one thing I agree on is that the original should still be available to buy.
You watch, someday EPE/Turner will put out a 2DVD box set of both the original and SE. LOL!!!

Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:55 pm

So many of you are so very clueless. Read and learn!

They cut the film down to pieces from the beginning to the end, from Mytery [ sic ] Train, over That's All Right to Patch It Up, Polk Salad Annie, Suspicious Minds and others. During That's All Right the suits of the band change from black to white and backwards. In You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' Elvis is wearing different Suits [ sic ]. The same with Suspicious Minds and Can't Help Falling In Love (the same suits but definitely from different concerts). Well, what for??


The edits are due to the fact that available footage for said performances had crucial gaps, necessitating use of various shows to make a complete song. They did an excellent job.

TTWII SE was put together from the perspective of Elvis Presley as a viable, creative artist in 1970, even if the show was going to be presented in Las Vegas, Nevada. Again, Turner succeeded in this goal.

For example, the manner in which "Patch It Up" was cut -- where the interplay with Presley and Tutt is made evident -- is both exciting as hell and revelatory. Or recall the outstanding editing of Elvis trying out "Twenty Days And Twenty Nights" in Los Angeles while the Sweet Inspirations rehearse to a master acetate in Vegas -- it just takes your breath away. The original documentary did not draw from this point of view.

The omission of certain numbers was a bit disappointing but one suspects publishing is at the heart of the matter.

Feel better -- now you know more.