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Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:53 am

eligain wrote:What signs of drug abuse would Elvis have exhibited that the police would have noticed?

I don't know. Perhaps his slurry speaking voice, his respiration, his eyes, some unsteadiness. A trained officer should have seen something in 1976. He wasn't straight when he was with them at this time. He had too many problems.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:07 am

stevelecher wrote:
eligain wrote:What signs of drug abuse would Elvis have exhibited that the police would have noticed?

I don't know. Perhaps his slurry speaking voice, his respiration, his eyes, some unsteadiness. A trained officer should have seen something in 1976. He wasn't straight when he was with them at this time. He had too many problems.


How do you know he had slurry speech bad respiration bad eyes or some unsteadiness when he was with them? They obviously didn't see that. I know 2 other people who were around him at that time; Danny Rupoli a Denver hair stylist who cut his hair while in Denver and Tony Vacaro a jeweler with Quarts Jewelers who made the black diamond ring. They are both close family friends of ours and I have talked to them about their time with Elvis several times over the years and they never saw any hint of Elvis being high or stoned and they would have no reason to lie to us. Danny Rupoli is the son of one of my Dad's best friends and my Dad's Godson. Tony Vacaro was dating my Aunt at the time. My Dad's friend who was the Denver detective who was friends with Kennedy and Pietrafeso was also around Elvis with them and he never saw anything and he would have told my Dad if he did. They grew up across the street together and went from elementary though high school through the air force together and stayed close friends, seeing each other weekly until he died about 10 years ago.

I'm not saying Elvis didn't have a drug problem, we all know that he did. It just wasn't necessarily obvious to those who were casually around him.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:02 pm

I guess he just appeared screwed up on stage those last few years but not on his off time. Whatever.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:27 pm

eligain wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:In Careless Love Peter Guralnick wrote they were aware of his problems and tried to talk to Elvis about the drugs but he quickly left Denver without saying a word.


It may have been the other 2 cops or the police doctor but I don't believe it was Kennedy and Pietrafeso they have never acknowledged that the other cops thought Elvis had a problem. Why would they tell everyone including their closest friends that they never saw Elvis stoned yet would tell Guralnick that they tried to help him?

They never told Guralnick that, and Guralnick is open about their denying. His conclusion is based on, among others, Sonny and Red, who he considers to be more convincing. Kennedy and Pietrefaso is explicit named for the intervention. Always read the footnotes, folks!

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:45 pm

eligain wrote:
fn2drive wrote:If the signs of drug abuse weren't evident to them, they either weren't very good detectives and years later surely worked the Jon Benet Ramsey case.


Just because someone is bloated or pale doesn't mean they're on drugs. When he was around them he probably was straight. If they didn't see him take any pills, how would they know he had a pill problem? And even if they did see him take pills, they were prescribed so they were legal. What signs of drug abuse would Elvis have exhibited that the police would have noticed?


He allegedly asked Dr. Starkey (another Denver policeman) for a Dilaudid prescription. That would be a flashing, red sign.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm

And because Elvis asked for that didn't they wonder if he had cancer? Wasn't that the time they talked to Elvis about going in to a sanatorium to get help? Supposedly when they spoke to him about this he left town very rapidly.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:01 am

egilj wrote:
eligain wrote:
jurasic1968 wrote:In Careless Love Peter Guralnick wrote they were aware of his problems and tried to talk to Elvis about the drugs but he quickly left Denver without saying a word.


It may have been the other 2 cops or the police doctor but I don't believe it was Kennedy and Pietrafeso they have never acknowledged that the other cops thought Elvis had a problem. Why would they tell everyone including their closest friends that they never saw Elvis stoned yet would tell Guralnick that they tried to help him?

They never told Guralnick that, and Guralnick is open about their denying. His conclusion is based on, among others, Sonny and Red, who he considers to be more convincing. Kennedy and Pietrefaso is explicit named for the intervention. Always read the footnotes, folks!


All I know is that Pietrafeso was and still is very adamant that he didn't see any evidence of drug abuse with Elvis and neither did Kennedy. I would be very surprised if they did this and never told even very good friends of theirs on the police force. Now the police doctor could have been a different matter which would make more sense.

We knew most of the people involved personally so I can't believe we wouldn't have heard about this and we heard about a whole lot of other stuff that really isn't common knowledge or in any of the books.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:06 am

elvisjock wrote:
eligain wrote:
fn2drive wrote:If the signs of drug abuse weren't evident to them, they either weren't very good detectives and years later surely worked the Jon Benet Ramsey case.


Just because someone is bloated or pale doesn't mean they're on drugs. When he was around them he probably was straight. If they didn't see him take any pills, how would they know he had a pill problem? And even if they did see him take pills, they were prescribed so they were legal. What signs of drug abuse would Elvis have exhibited that the police would have noticed?


He allegedly asked Dr. Starkey (another Denver policeman) for a Dilaudid prescription. That would be a flashing, red sign.


I guess it depends on what he asked for it for. If it was for something really minor, I guess you could see that. It's a misnomer that Dilaudid is prescribed for only cancer. My Dad was prescribed it for knee pain in the late 70's. I was on it after I broke my elbow a couple of years ago.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:23 am

elvisjock wrote:Essential, but not the definitive work on the subject, because there will never be complete agreement on what happened in that bathroom. There is no definitive work on the subject, only opinions.


That is and will be the truth regarding this subject.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:36 am

eligain wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
eligain wrote:What signs of drug abuse would Elvis have exhibited that the police would have noticed?

I don't know. Perhaps his slurry speaking voice, his respiration, his eyes, some unsteadiness. A trained officer should have seen something in 1976. He wasn't straight when he was with them at this time. He had too many problems.


How do you know he had slurry speech bad respiration bad eyes or some unsteadiness when he was with them? They obviously didn't see that. I know 2 other people who were around him at that time; Danny Rupoli a Denver hair stylist who cut his hair while in Denver and Tony Vacaro a jeweler with Quarts Jewelers who made the black diamond ring. They are both close family friends of ours and I have talked to them about their time with Elvis several times over the years and they never saw any hint of Elvis being high or stoned and they would have no reason to lie to us. Danny Rupoli is the son of one of my Dad's best friends and my Dad's Godson. Tony Vacaro was dating my Aunt at the time. My Dad's friend who was the Denver detective who was friends with Kennedy and Pietrafeso was also around Elvis with them and he never saw anything and he would have told my Dad if he did. They grew up across the street together and went from elementary though high school through the air force together and stayed close friends, seeing each other weekly until he died about 10 years ago.

I'm not saying Elvis didn't have a drug problem, we all know that he did. It just wasn't necessarily obvious to those who were casually around him.


I believe this to be true. It is also a way he could have walked to hide his habit. The one does not rule out the other.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:38 am

What he needed, baby, what he needed, what he needed was a change of habit.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:17 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:I hate to be repetitive but I will repeat again something I wrote long ago.

I have to question motive here. Thompson said to Patsy Guy Hammortree in her meticulously documented book "Elvis A Bio-Bibliography" that "He felt Elvis fooled too many people for too long and it was time he was portrayed as the self-centered individual Thompson considered him to be" ...


It is this a quote, or a paraphrase? Because it cannot be both, and does not make sense as it stands.

And who exactly is Patsy Guy Hammortree?


Mike Eder wrote:The authors also changed Sam Thompson and Alcia Kirwin's 1980 interviews very slightly but very tellingly. Firstly Kirwin said that she did NOT consider Elvis to be an addict, but of course the word not was left out of the book. Second Sam said they were NOT in fear for their lives around Elvis when he had a firearm. Again the word not was removed.

It really is important to know this info in light of how much weight Thompson's views have been given.


It is really important to know exactly how you verified this editing as true. Who told you this? For starters, Alicia Kerwin apparently died twenty years ago.


Mike Eder wrote:Death Of Elvis does have value, hard work is to be found in its pages, but I simply feel it isn't the one and only take that should be considered. Drugs killed Elvis, but a codeine reaction may not exactly how. Not that I feel it matters all that much, even if it really was a heart attack-drugs killed him all the same.


Have you read The Death of Elvis?

Because it does not suggest just one cause of death in its conclusion.


I wrote the above first in 2008 and for something so strong I would today quote my source. I wish I knew offhand where I read the Dr. Nick trial transcripts. I will look over my book collection the next day or two and get back to you with that. I remember trying to get a transcript of them from Tennessee but was not successful.

Sorry I meant Patsy Guy Hammontree. An author who did a meticulously researched book on Elvis-for the period. She also had an article in the well regarded Images and Fancies book. Used both are pretty cheap and worth a read. She interviewed a lot of people for the book and there is a lot of original material I have not seen elsewhere. I knew about it for many years because it was reviewed in the 1987 book Elvis World, which has a detailed listing of the most interesting seventies and eighties books. Most are overlooked now and that is kind of sad as the period feel of interviews, or research, done in the late seventies to early eighties has a lot of value as memories of Elvis were still fresh.
http://www.amazon.com/Elvis-Presley-Bio ... 0313228671
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_following.html
http://www.amazon.com/Elvis-Fancies-Jac ... 0878051139
The statement from the book is a paraphrase from a personal interview she conducted with Thompson in November 1980. I really think you would like her style as she was very careful to document every little bit of her book.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:23 am

Oh and of course I have read it, both editions in fact. It has been a little while, but I remember the codeine death being the main idea they get behind. If I am wrong I will gladly admit to it.

Re: The Death Of Elvis

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:51 am

Mike Eder wrote:I hate to be repetitive but I will repeat again something I wrote long ago.

I have to question motive here. Thompson said to Patsy Guy Hammortree in her meticulously documented book "Elvis A Bio-Bibliography" that "He felt Elvis fooled too many people for too long and it was time he was portrayed as the self-centered individual Thompson considered him to be"., The authors also changed Sam Thompson and Alcia Kirwin's 1980 interviews very slightly but very tellingly. Firstly Kirwin said that she did NOT consider Elvis to be an addict, but of course the word not was left out of the book. Second Sam said they were NOT in fear for their lives around Elvis when he had a firearm. Again the word not was removed.

It really is important to know this info in light of how much weight Thompson's views have been given.

Death Of Elvis does have value, hard work is to be found in its pages, but I simply feel it isn't the one and only take that should be considered. Drugs killed Elvis, but a codeine reaction may not exactly how. Not that I feel it matters all that much, even if it really was a heart attack-drugs killed him all the same.


I remember in the TV interview and in the book Thompson talking about Elvis not reading a book about the face of Jesus when he died but a book called Sex And Psychic Energy and Thompson said it was nothing but "rank pornography".